How do we fix this!?!?!?! I'm done with Congress!

I wish i saved the article, but Monday's USA Today had a lead story about healthcare changes being pushed through legislation. Very early in the article, this comment was made (and i'm paraphrasing);

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"If healthcare policy isn't passed this year, it will not be passed until after the next presidential election. Next year is a Congretional election year, and the year after that begins the presidential & primary campaigning. Nobody in Congress will want to vote on any significant issues during this time."

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I'm not shitttting you! Not only was that statement made, it was made in a non-chalant manner like it was OK and fully understood by all. Not a big deal??? I really had difficult reading the rest of the article. Are you kidding me??

If this statement doesn't show how fu(ked up Washington is, and how broken our system is nothing will ever do so. Why the media, in this case USA Today (lead story), wouldn't stop and question that statement baffles me.

We need a referrendum in this country. A complete discussion and overhaul on how we the people want to see Washington revamped. The people should be able to utilize the media to push this agenda. Its way past time we fix this attitude from our elected officials. Even if they pass healthcare legislation, all other significant legislation (social security, border security and immigration reform, restructuring of tax code, and on and on) will simply be utilized as NOTHING but a political tool for the next three years. Along with gay marriage, abortion, and other topics traditionally used by politicians, they will do nothing but pander to their bases with vailed promises and after the elections are done put these back on the backburner until the next election cycle.

So how? How do we demand more? How do we begin to change the attitude in Washington? How do we make our elected officials do anything other than run for election?:mad:

What do you expect? The mainstream media is just a mouthpiece for the government.

The only way to seriously make change is to rise up and demand it.

Call, write, or email your elected officials. Then have your friends and/or family members do the same if they share your outrage.

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Originally Posted by BINGLEBOP

Call, write, or email your elected officials. Then have your friends and/or family members do the same if they share your outrage.

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i greatly doubt that would do anything. congress, as mentioned above, has accepted this attitude. they DON'T WANT TO FIX IT! the current system has them set up in a situation where they make millions, rarely have to put their necks out on significant votes, and can continue to sway their stances based upon popular opinions of the day.

we need a non-political leader to step up. similar to MLK Jr. in his day stood up for equal rights of all, we need a leader to step up and unite set a clear list of necessary changes which he/she can then gain public support from all parties for. i think we are at a stage in our country where we need to completely overhaul this current system.

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Originally Posted by dickay

i greatly doubt that would do anything. congress, as mentioned above, has accepted this attitude. they DON'T WANT TO FIX IT!

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I don't disagree with that, but I tend to believe that politicians are susceptible to public opinion that people realize, where if enough people take a stand on an issue and put the pressure on them, they're more likely to act. While not to the same extreme, it makes me think of "Swing Vote" with Kevin Costner, where the presidential election ended up coming down to his deciding vote. I thought it was funny when both candidates were doing everything they could to get his vote, even going against traditional party values.

If nobody cares and everybody is apathetic to the entire process, then they'll do whatever they want to do. I guess it's not necessarily even their fault, but regular citizens that don't care about it as much as you do and who don't do anything about it. Sure, it's an outrage to them, but only until something else captures their attention ten minutes later.

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Originally Posted by BINGLEBOP

I don't disagree with that, but I tend to believe that politicians are susceptible to public opinion that people realize, where if enough people take a stand on an issue and put the pressure on them, they're more likely to act. While not to the same extreme, it makes me think of "Swing Vote" with Kevin Costner, where the presidential election ended up coming down to his deciding vote. I thought it was funny when both candidates were doing everything they could to get his vote, even going against traditional party values.

If nobody cares and everybody is apathetic to the entire process, then they'll do whatever they want to do. I guess it's not necessarily even their fault, but regular citizens that don't care about it as much as you do and who don't do anything about it. Sure, it's an outrage to them, but only until something else captures their attention ten minutes later.

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thats where we need a leader however to step up and inform the people. Lord knows the media isn't doing it. Heck, USA Today took no issue with the statment i reffered to, and in fact echoed it. I firmly think if the issues are spoken about loudly, people would follow. And i'm saying all this in a truly unbiased mindset. Both democrats and republican voters cannot alone unite and address this without a leader that the media has to pay attention to. The media, and politicians unite now to squelch the word of the people. Look at the Tea Party Rallies for proof.

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Originally Posted by dickay

The media, and politicians unite now to squelch the word of the people. Look at the Tea Party Rallies for proof.

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I don't think that's the example you want to use...you know, in that they were basically co-opted by Fox News...and didn't have a huge turn out anyway, at least not compared to other recent mass protests, like, say, the anti-war ones.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

I don't think that's the example you want to use...you know, in that they were basically co-opted by Fox News...and didn't have a huge turn out anyway, at least not compared to other recent mass protests, like, say, the anti-war ones.

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no, thats exactly an example i want to use. these were not united by Fox News, they were in fact everyday Americans gathering to express their opinions and were ignored and ridiculed...and even libeled in the manner you did above. The only reason Fox News is associated with these protests was because they were largely republicans and Fox News actually did cover it with unbiased reporting, unlike CNN "reporters" who insulted and very nearly started fights with protestors. Anti-war protests did and do have larger turn outs...and its no surprise that the media covers something already viewed as popular by much of Congress. There are some that say that the media assists in developing the anti-war sentiments of the masses. Now when does the media truly get engaged in issues unpopular to the Congress as a whole??? Doesn't happen. They are in the habit of making news, not reporting it.

Anyway, you're steering this into a partisan argument, and i don't want to go there. Congresses ineptitude effects all voters, and we do not have a media interested in A) actually honestly reporting all the problems and B) providing everyday citizens with the same type access and platform that those in Congress are alotted. Why???? Because the media doesn't want this fixed either. They are at the height of their corporations in bed with Washington.

“If once the people become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors, shall all become wolves. It seems to be the law of our general nature, in spite of individual exceptions.” --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1787

"Even in this, the birth of our government, some members [of the Legislature] were found sordid enough to bend their duty to their interests and to look after personal rather than public good." --Thomas Jefferson: The Anas, 1818.

"[When] corruption.. has prevailed in those offices [of]... government and [has] so familiarized itself as that men otherwise honest could look on it without horror,... [then we must] be alive to the suppression of this odious practice and... bring to punishment and brand with eternal disgrace every man guilty of it, whatever be his station." --Thomas Jefferson to W. C. C. Claiborne, 1804.

"[Montesquieu wrote in Spirit of the Laws, VIII,c.12:] 'When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.'" --Thomas Jefferson: copied into his Commonplace Book.

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Originally Posted by dickay

no, thats exactly an example i want to use. these were not united by Fox News, they were in fact everyday Americans gathering to express their opinions and were ignored and ridiculed...and even libeled in the manner you did above. The only reason Fox News is associated with these protests was because they were largely republicans and Fox News actually did cover it with unbiased reporting, unlike CNN "reporters" who insulted and very nearly started fights with protestors.

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I don't think promoting them counts as "unbiased". How can you claim to be unbiased when you say something like, "may involve millions of people...hopefully millions of people"? I also enjoy the guy claiming that "Fascism is permeating this country", when, I wouldn't doubt, he's also one of the people claiming Obama is a socialist. Fox News, fair and balanced? Please. I won't be so blinded to say that MSNBC's coverage was fair/balanced (I didn't watch any of CNN's), because it wasn't, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking Fox covered it in a fair and balanced manner. They were one of the major pushers of it, and it's hard to be a "grassroots movement" or a gathering of "everyday Americans" when your movement is being promoted by one of the largest media corporations in the country. This video shows clips of Fox News covering the tea party protests, and then clips of Fox covering war protests and similar ones. You don't see the clear difference there? They are not fair and balanced. Please. It's also hard to be taken seriously when you want to protest wasteful spending by spending money on a million teabags to waste. :rolleyes:

But, I digress, because...

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Originally Posted by dickay

Congresses ineptitude effects all voters, and we do not have a media interested in A) actually honestly reporting all the problems and B) providing everyday citizens with the same type access and platform that those in Congress are alotted. Why???? Because the media doesn't want this fixed either. They are at the height of their corporations in bed with Washington.

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I agree with that wholeheartedly.

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Originally Posted by SirKodiak

“If once the people become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors, shall all become wolves. It seems to be the law of our general nature, in spite of individual exceptions.” --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1787

"Even in this, the birth of our government, some members [of the Legislature] were found sordid enough to bend their duty to their interests and to look after personal rather than public good." --Thomas Jefferson: The Anas, 1818.

"[When] corruption.. has prevailed in those offices [of]... government and [has] so familiarized itself as that men otherwise honest could look on it without horror,... [then we must] be alive to the suppression of this odious practice and... bring to punishment and brand with eternal disgrace every man guilty of it, whatever be his station." --Thomas Jefferson to W. C. C. Claiborne, 1804.

"[Montesquieu wrote in Spirit of the Laws, VIII,c.12:] 'When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.'" --Thomas Jefferson: copied into his Commonplace Book.

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You left out my favorite TJ quote...."The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

ahh yeah that quote

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"Even in this, the birth of our government, some members [of the Legislature] were found sordid enough to bend their duty to their interests and to look after personal rather than public good." --Thomas Jefferson: The Anas, 1818.

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Oh, that Jefferson! Always talking out of the anas...

Be the change you wish to see in the world.

And that's all I have to say I guess. I'd love to see Congress changed, but like dickay I don't have much hope for it I guess.

Basically, what I can be, is change. I won't vote for a single incumbent in the upcoming election. Will it matter? No.

But we should be more like Canada...if they aren't doing it right...get em out. Until we find people who do do it right. And not based on party.

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Originally Posted by SirKodiak

“If once the people become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors, shall all become wolves. It seems to be the law of our general nature, in spite of individual exceptions.” --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1787

"Even in this, the birth of our government, some members [of the Legislature] were found sordid enough to bend their duty to their interests and to look after personal rather than public good." --Thomas Jefferson: The Anas, 1818.

"[When] corruption.. has prevailed in those offices [of]... government and [has] so familiarized itself as that men otherwise honest could look on it without horror,... [then we must] be alive to the suppression of this odious practice and... bring to punishment and brand with eternal disgrace every man guilty of it, whatever be his station." --Thomas Jefferson to W. C. C. Claiborne, 1804.

"[Montesquieu wrote in Spirit of the Laws, VIII,c.12:] 'When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.'" --Thomas Jefferson: copied into his Commonplace Book.

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thomas jefferson was so fu(king brilliant.

I have had the same frustrations for a long time, thats why I vote outside the two party system when I can, or like dude said, vote out the incumbent. Donate to the 3rd party but it still isnt enough. I think Dice was on to something about a new leader that thinks outside the box, or at least one that can preserve the principles that founded America that can also evoke the same passion and desire out of us that MLK did.

There may come a time when the majority will feel this way, and basically overthrow those corrupted officials and I do believe the government is on that path.

QUESTION: How do we fix this!?!?!?!


ANSWER:

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

The only way to seriously make change is to rise up and demand it.

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Originally Posted by dickay

thomas jefferson was so fu(king brilliant.

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He was. It's a shame that his thoughts have been forgotten and/or distorted by a large segment of the population.

How was Thomas Jefferson forgotten or distorted today?

How can we expect our Government to fix a problem that requires money to do do? With the health insurance they already provide for the elderly and disabled there is not enough money to run it for the next 35-40 years or so.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

What do you expect? The mainstream media is just a mouthpiece for the government.

The only way to seriously make change is to rise up and demand it.

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Agreed!

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Originally Posted by flapper

How can we expect our Government to fix a problem that requires money to do do? With the health insurance they already provide for the elderly and disabled there is not enough money to run it for the next 35-40 years or so.

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If they stopped bailing out the auto industry, the banks, the people who run their businesses poorly, than that money could be sunk where it is needed: healthcare!

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Originally Posted by RickD

If they stopped bailing out the auto industry, the banks, the people who run their businesses poorly, than that money could be sunk where it is needed: healthcare!

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add to that spending the money on pointless wars & i'm completely on board with you

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Originally Posted by etothep

add to that spending the money on pointless wars & i'm completely on board with you

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OK pointless wars! Not saying which ones were pointless though.

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Originally Posted by RickD

OK pointless wars! Not saying which ones were pointless though.

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I'm pretty sure we're both talking about WWII

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Originally Posted by etothep

I'm pretty sure we're both talking about WWII

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No the War of 1812...what were we thinking?

I agree... "Lord Of War" wasn't that good of a movie.

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Originally Posted by RickD

No the War of 1812...what were we thinking?

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obviously we weren't :(

let me post this in its proper place now;

(oh, and sorry bingle for letting your plan be known)

Whats the definition of pointless here?

If for example theres evidence that says binglebop is going to rob a bank, and take many hostages in the process. Much of the local intelligence says as such, much of the calls made to other regions confirm this evidence....and the local police decide to obtain state police assistance and set up a large scale sting to stop this threat. The local public is made aware of this issue and LARGELY SUPPORT IT, as does the mayor..town council, local businesses, pretty much all of the community. In addition, all of these people AGREE that the threat is significant enough to demand this action, EVEN if it turns out the evidence is proved wrong.

Was it pointless to take this course of action after we learn the evidence was wrong and public support for it no longer exists?

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Originally Posted by dickay

let me post this in its proper place now;

(oh, and sorry bingle for letting your plan be known)

Whats the definition of pointless here?

If for example theres evidence that says binglebop is going to rob a bank, and take many hostages in the process. Much of the local intelligence says as such, much of the calls made to other regions confirm this evidence....and the local police decide to obtain state police assistance and set up a large scale sting to stop this threat. The local public is made aware of this issue and LARGELY SUPPORT IT, as does the mayor..town council, local businesses, pretty much all of the community. In addition, all of these people AGREE that the threat is significant enough to demand this action, EVEN if it turns out the evidence is proved wrong.

Was it pointless to take this course of action after we learn the evidence was wrong and public support for it no longer exists?

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If they arrest Bingle's neighbor instead, yes


http://projectvisa.com/images/maps/middle_east.gif

To William S. Smith Paris, Nov. 13, 1787

DEAR SIR,

-- I am now to acknoledge the receipt of your favors of October the 4th, 8th, & 26th. In the last you apologise for your letters of introduction to Americans coming here. It is so far from needing apology on your part, that it calls for thanks on mine. I endeavor to shew civilities to all the Americans who come here, & will give me opportunities of doing it: and it is a matter of comfort to know from a good quarter what they are, & how far I may go in my attentions to them. Can you send me Woodmason's bills for the two copying presses for the M. de la Fayette, & the M. de Chastellux? The latter makes one article in a considerable account, of old standing, and which I cannot present for want of this article. -- I do not know whether it is to yourself or Mr. Adams I am to give my thanks for the copy of the new constitution. I beg leave through you to place them where due. It will be yet three weeks before I shall receive them from America. There are very good articles in it: & very bad. I do not know which preponderate. What we have lately read in the history of Holland, in the chapter on the Stadtholder, would have sufficed to set me against a chief magistrate eligible for a long duration, if I had ever been disposed towards one: & what we have always read of the elections of Polish kings should have forever excluded the idea of one continuable for life. Wonderful is the effect of impudent & persevering lying. The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them, & what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves. Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusetts? And can history produce an instance of rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it's motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independent 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusetts: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen-yard in order. I hope in God this article will be rectified before the new constitution is accepted. -- You ask me if any thing transpires here on the subject of S. America? Not a word. I know that there are combustible materials there, and that they wait the torch only. But this country probably will join the extinguishers. -- The want of facts worth communicating to you has occasioned me to give a little loose to dissertation. We must be contented to amuse, when we cannot inform.

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Thomas Jefferson