Re: I think Al Davis lost it
I read somewhere, can't find it now, a funny article that said something like:
Most NFL teams have pages and pages of scouting notes for players. Not for the Raiders they break theirs down by: Super fast, really fast, fast, not fast, slow. That's it.
Re: I think Al Davis lost it
You mean you missed the part where they spent their 2nd round pick on a guy nobody had on their draft board & who wasn't even invited to the combine?
Re: I think Al Davis lost it
http://www.theonion.com/content/infograph/al_davis
"Has gone from creative and innovative kind of crazy to tissue-box-on-feet, saving-urine-in-jars crazy"
...so true...:(
Re: I think Al Davis lost it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
etothep
You mean you missed the part where they spent their 2nd round pick on a guy nobody had on their draft board & who wasn't even invited to the combine?
Yeah I heard about that, its hard to make fun of, because from what I heard is the Bears were going to draft him and the Raiders beat them to the punch. But this dude wasnt on a lot of teams boards, and it doesnt make a whole lot of sense to use a 2nd rounder to get a projected 7th rounder.
Re: I think Al Davis lost it
I sincerely believe that the Raiders will be competitive again...after Al Davis dies.
Re: I think Al Davis lost it
When did Al Davis have it?
Re: I think Al Davis lost it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gosensgo101
When did Al Davis have it?
60's-80's he was pretty good.
Re: I think Al Davis lost it
Re: I think Al Davis lost it
And Rage is just realizing now that he lost it :D
Re: I think Al Davis lost it
hey, they did make a super bowl in 02.....somehow.
Re: I think Al Davis lost it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ragecage
Yeah I heard about that, its hard to make fun of, because from what I heard is the Bears were going to draft him and the Raiders beat them to the punch. But this dude wasnt on a lot of teams boards, and it doesnt make a whole lot of sense to use a 2nd rounder to get a projected 7th rounder.
Yeah the Bears were going to draft him but like you said not until the 6th or 7th round
Re: I think Al Davis lost it
Having seen Darrius Heyward-Bey play in person, I feel that I should add my input:
He DOES have game changing speed: he once made a 96-yard touchdown reception in college, where he blew past a Miami corner and made a great catch in stride. He's also a threat to score on reverses, and I believe he can return kicks as well. He had 3 problems: 1) no spread-offense system (which can inflate stats of receivers like Crabtree, Maclin, and Harvin), 2) a coach willing to throw the ball 30-40 times a game (Friedgen is very much a smashmouth coach), and 3) an NFL backup caliber quarterback (Sam Hollenbach, Jordan Steffy, Josh Portis, and Chris Turner are above-average college quarterbacks, at best).
I agree that #7 is too high. Perhaps they could've traded down to get more picks, but its too late for that now.
However, I'm reminded of another draft pick that all the experts thought was too high: Bengals OT Levi Jones was selected #10 overall in 2002, and all the pundits were left scratching their heads. 7 seasons later, Jones is still the starting left tackle for Cincinnati, and has turned into a productive protector for Carson Palmer.
Remember, all this is speculation. We'll have to wait until September to see for sure.
Re: I think Al Davis lost it
Remember when the Texans took Mario Williams over Reggie Bush and everyone acted like it was the stupidest thing ever????
How'd that turn out?
Re: I think Al Davis lost it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PotatoOfCouch13
Having seen Darrius Heyward-Bey play in person, I feel that I should add my input:
He DOES have game changing speed: he once made a 96-yard touchdown reception in college, where he blew past a Miami corner and made a great catch in stride. He's also a threat to score on reverses, and I believe he can return kicks as well. He had 3 problems: 1) no spread-offense system (which can inflate stats of receivers like Crabtree, Maclin, and Harvin), 2) a coach willing to throw the ball 30-40 times a game (Friedgen is very much a smashmouth coach), and 3) an NFL backup caliber quarterback (Sam Hollenbach, Jordan Steffy, Josh Portis, and Chris Turner are above-average college quarterbacks, at best).
I agree that #7 is too high. Perhaps they could've traded down to get more picks, but its too late for that now.
However, I'm reminded of another draft pick that all the experts thought was too high: Bengals OT Levi Jones was selected #10 overall in 2002, and all the pundits were left scratching their heads. 7 seasons later, Jones is still the starting left tackle for Cincinnati, and has turned into a productive protector for Carson Palmer.
Remember, all this is speculation. We'll have to wait until September to see for sure.
Scouts don't look at stats when deciding who to draft, they look at film to see footwork, instincts, hands, route running, & 'game speed' when looking WRs. They want to see if the WR takes advantage of a CB if the CB opens his hips, they want to see if he sees the safety bite on a play fake & hit the opening left by it.
Again, nobody is saying the Raiders screwed up for liking Bey better, just that they got him at a bare minimum of 10 picks too early. And yes, there are a few times when reaching has paid off such as Luis Castillo & Lofa Tatupu in 05. That doesn't make it a good idea to essentially leave draft picks on the table.
As far as his 'blazing speed,' another recent top 10 draft pick at WR with bust written all over him, Troy Williamson, was very similar to Bey. Again, if all you had to do was run fast to be a great receiver, then Olympic track stars would be going to the Pro Bowl. Route-running, knowledge of the game (such as reading defenses & being able to digest an NFL playbook), & hands are more important than being able to run a tenth of a second faster.
Not trying to be an ass or anything POC, just annoyed that someone isn't doing something about Al Davis. I mean obviously this dude is on another planet.
Re: I think Al Davis lost it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KowboyKoop
Remember when the Texans took Mario Williams over Reggie Bush and everyone acted like it was the stupidest thing ever????
How'd that turn out?
Williams was still a consensus top 5 pick. Even though I agreed with the pick (am enrolled at Williams' alma mater & saw him play numerous times), I still don't equate that as the same as taking someone at least 10-15 picks too high.
It's not just the Raiders. Chargers reached on English by a good 10 picks as well, but since that wasn't a top 10 pick (& they didn't have such a questionable 2nd rounder), it's looked down on more (that & AJ Smith has a much better track record on draft picks than Davis)
Re: I think Al Davis lost it
Jerry Rice ran a 4.7 forty yard dash at the Combine.
He had exceptional route running, hands, and incredible football IQ though and thats why he is the best receiver of all time. Speed, to an extent, is overrated.
Not to mention the Raiders already have Johnnie Lee Higgins returning punts and kicks who also runs a sub 4.3 so why take a guy like Bey for kickoffs?
Re: I think Al Davis lost it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OregonDuck1989
Jerry Rice ran a 4.7 forty yard dash at the Combine.
He had exceptional route running, hands, and incredible football IQ though and thats why he is the best receiver of all time. Speed, to an extent, is overrated.
Steve Largent, Fred Biletnikoff, Marvin Harrison & countless others would agree
Re: I think Al Davis lost it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OregonDuck1989
Jerry Rice ran a 4.7 forty yard dash at the Combine.
He had exceptional route running, hands, and incredible football IQ though and thats why he is the best receiver of all time. Speed, to an extent, is overrated.
Not to mention the Raiders already have Johnnie Lee Higgins returning punts and kicks who also runs a sub 4.3 so why take a guy like Bey for kickoffs?
The Raiders drafted Jessie Hester that year, another "speed" receiver, didnt work out that well.
Re: I think Al Davis lost it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
etothep
into the mid-late 90s
I'd say earlier than that.
There were two things that made the Raider good from the time Davis took over the team until the mid-70's. One was that their scouting was better than most teams (along with the Cowboys, the Rams, and [after 68 or so] the Steelers, they had the best scouting in that era--the Cowboys were the very best), so they came up with players other teams weren't aware of. The other thing was that they would take chances of players who wer talented but other teams didn't want because they were considered discipline problems, and basically take the attitude that they didn't care how those guys acted as long as they showed up at the games ready to play.
Eventually, the rest of the league mostly caught up in scouting. What is interesting is that both Dallas and Oakland continued to act as if they were still well ahead of most teams in scouting, and continued to make picks that were percieved as reaches. The difference was, whereas before, they only seemed to be reaches because other teams (and media commentators, too, BTW) didn't know as much about those players as the teams with the really good scouting did, after the rest of the teams caught up, those picks really were reaches. The previous strength of having better scouting than most teams became a liability because the Raiders didn't (and apparantly still don't) realize that those days were over. The Cowboys didn't realize it either at first, and that's why Gil Brandt had to go in Dallas, and why Davis needs to go (or at least step aside as the guy who makes the final decisions on personnel matters).
The willingness to take a chance on players who were perceived as discipline problems also became a liability for a while, because it seemed to go from taking a chance on talented players who weren't wanted by other teams because they were discipline problems to acquiring players simply because they were discipline problems. The Raiders and Davis appear to have recognized this, and put an end to that problem. They are still probably more willing to take a chance on a player who other teams have decided is a discipline problem than most, but they seem to at least have gone back to want the player in question to actually have talent, too.
Re: I think Al Davis lost it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
etothep
Scouts don't look at stats when deciding who to draft, they look at film to see footwork, instincts, hands, route running, & 'game speed' when looking WRs. They want to see if the WR takes advantage of a CB if the CB opens his hips, they want to see if he sees the safety bite on a play fake & hit the opening left by it.
Again, nobody is saying the Raiders screwed up for liking Bey better, just that they got him at a bare minimum of 10 picks too early. And yes, there are a few times when reaching has paid off such as Luis Castillo & Lofa Tatupu in 05. That doesn't make it a good idea to essentially leave draft picks on the table.
As far as his 'blazing speed,' another recent top 10 draft pick at WR with bust written all over him, Troy Williamson, was very similar to Bey. Again, if all you had to do was run fast to be a great receiver, then Olympic track stars would be going to the Pro Bowl. Route-running, knowledge of the game (such as reading defenses & being able to digest an NFL playbook), & hands are more important than being able to run a tenth of a second faster.
Not trying to be an ass or anything POC, just annoyed that someone isn't doing something about Al Davis. I mean obviously this dude is on another planet.
All valid points, and no offense taken. But what can someone do about Al Davis? He is still the owner of the Oakland Raiders, and I'm certain that he's not going to sell the team until he's dead. I don't think anyone in that organization has the cojones to stand up to him. Lane Kiffin tried to last year, and we all saw how that turned out. It's looking more and more like the 'Commitment to Excellence' is a thing of the past, and won't be coming back until the distant future.
