guns on college campuses?

i'm torn on this one.

on one hand, should licensed adults be permitted to carry a gun to protect themselves from deranged individuals who try to martyr themselves on school yards on what seems like a yearly basis?

on the other hand, do we want a bunch of guns on a campus where already an escalated amount of drugs & alcohol abuse, and crimes such as theft and rape take place?

its easy to say option #2 is better, guns lead to violence.....but then again, if that wacko in VT knows he'll be meeting armed college students he likely isn't going in there and there likely isn't dozens of parents with dead children.

i vote option number one, and have voiced my opinion before

But I also don't think it would have prevented the VT shooting.

They are adults, and just like any adult they have the right to protect themselves...however, restrictions should, as always, make it difficult to obtain one

Why is this a discussion? Hell yes there should be more guns on campus. If I had a gun when I was in school, I probably would have killed half my fraternity while drunk, and then moved on to my favorite profs. I think guns in the hands of idiots is the way to go!!!!!!!

I think its a pick your poison in this scenario. I think it would be a good thing to fence off schools and have entrances with metal detectors.

what makes you think that there isn't an abundance on larger campuses already?

On a serious note, guns are on campus, have been on campus, and will remain on campus. I never liked it. I felt uncomfortable living next to a ROTC guy who went on to become an Army Ranger Captain over the years. In college, he kept a fully loaded 9mm and a 30-06 in his room. This was illegal at William and Mary (Va), but who the hell looks when it is Virginia. Since Blacksburg I think this is changing for the better though.

I once saw a guy who got shut down by a girl pick up a gun in a fraternity house and fire quickly into the left and then right walls of his room. Luckily nobody was in either adjacent room, but wtf.

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Originally Posted by etothep

what makes you think that there isn't an abundance on larger campuses already?

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If thats true how come shootings are still happening?

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Originally Posted by ragecage

If thats true how come shootings are still happening?

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i'm sure there are some, but surely not an "abundance".

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I once saw a guy who got shut down by a girl pick up a gun in a fraternity house and fire quickly into the left and then right walls of his room. Luckily nobody was in either adjacent room, but wtf.

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Why is this a discussion? Hell yes there should be more guns on campus. If I had a gun when I was in school, I probably would have killed half my fraternity while drunk, and then moved on to my favorite profs. I think guns in the hands of idiots is the way to go!!!!!!!

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Those idiots should be prosecuted.

I think we should all have guns, everywhere. Seriously - everyone gets an M-16. Standard issue, along with your citizenship. Just for safety. You must carry it with you at all times - college, work, in church, whatever.

That way, everyone has guns for protection, and no one would ever think to commit any crimes. Right?

On a serious note - my school (UMass Amherst) was big enough to have campus security. Security had weapons. I think that's about all we need. College should be one of those places where you can make stupid decisions without many consequences - sort of like an etch-a-sketch. Putting more guns in the midst of a stressed out, partying, drug-experimenting populace can't be good. I don't think anyone outside of security should have weapons on campus.

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Originally Posted by dickay

its easy to say option #2 is better, guns lead to violence.....but then again, if that wacko in VT knows he'll be meeting armed college students he likely isn't going in there and there likely isn't dozens of parents with dead children.

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First, the guy in Virginia Tech committed suicide - so it is a stretch to think that he would be scared of meeting armed opposition. You can argue that there would have been fewer killed (though I think that is a stretch), but it doesn't make sense to say it would have stopped him.

I think that universities should be run like any other public space/workspace. If you can take a gun into your office, or into a public library, or in your own home then you should be allowed to have one at university. Most university students are adults, and should be treated as adults. That said, I'd prefer stricter controls on guns for everyone, so if that means starting with limiting access to guns on university campuses, well that would be a start.

Did anyone see the recent ABC program on guns? If I only had a gun debunked a lot of the oh I need a gun for protection in a crisis scenarios.

[QUOTEPutting more guns in the midst of a stressed out, partying, drug-experimenting populace can't be good. I don't think anyone outside of security should have weapons on campus.
][/QUOTE]

Giving responsibility to certain people on a campus is 100% ********. Campus security should be beefed up with the option to search rooms is a must. Screw rights to bear arms. Yes I have the right to bear arms and so does everyone else. Under the same constitution, I have given up my right to bear arms so others may not. I dont think many get this. I have served my country overseas where I slept with my assault rifle every night for 8 months straight. Think of Linus and his security blanket. I still would not trust myself to have an AR-15, a .357, a .45, and a 9 mm just lying around. I still get pissed off.

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Originally Posted by grasshopper

[QUOTEPutting more guns in the midst of a stressed out, partying, drug-experimenting populace can't be good. I don't think anyone outside of security should have weapons on campus.
]

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Giving responsibility to certain people on a campus is 100% ********. Campus security should be beefed up with the option to search rooms is a must. Screw rights to bear arms. Yes I have the right to bear arms and so does everyone else. Under the same constitution, I have given up my right to bear arms so others may not. I dont think many get this. I have served my country overseas where I slept with my assault rifle every night for 8 months straight. Think of Linus and his security blanket. I still would not trust myself to have an AR-15, a .357, a .45, and a 9 mm just lying around. I still get pissed off.[/QUOTE]

:eek: so give up all rights to privacy and allow security to do random room searches? where does that one end??:confused:

Maybe Non-Automatics should be allowed. They should have some protection for instances like the Virginia Tech shootings

Maybe more guns is not the answer!

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Originally Posted by RickD

Maybe more guns is not the answer!

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or maybe it is :D

I kind of like the idea of everyone gets a standard issue gun with citenship

Why not just save everyone the trouble and let people have gun battles in the street! We need an armed citizenry like we need a hole in the head, oh wait maybe we'll see more of that with more people carrying guns everywhere.

I love the idea of driving down the road, where an average joe has road rage and then pulls out his semi-right-to-bear-automatic and takes his aggression out on passing drivers! Or people get ticked in a Kroger and just no the guy in front is packing heat and wants to beat him to the draw!

Protection my ass. People who are fighting for the right to bear arms don't want to use it for hunting, they plan on shooting someone! Period! Oh not intentional murder, just you know for protection!

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Originally Posted by RickD

Why not just save everyone the trouble and let people have gun battles in the street! We need an armed citizenry like we need a hole in the head, oh wait maybe we'll see more of that with more people carrying guns everywhere.

I love the idea of driving down the road, where an average joe has road rage and then pulls out his semi-right-to-bear-automatic and takes his aggression out on passing drivers! Or people get ticked in a Kroger and just no the guy in front is packing heat and wants to beat him to the draw!

Protection my ass. People who are fighting for the right to bear arms don't want to use it for hunting, they plan on shooting someone! Period! Oh not intentional murder, just you know for protection!

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I bet if Jesus was alive, he would carry a gun. I challenge you to prove that he would be against guns if he existed

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Originally Posted by RickD

Maybe more guns is not the answer!

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RickD is right - we should just be given GRENADES!

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Originally Posted by Alloutwar

RickD is right - we should just be given GRENADES!

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I like your thinking :D

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Originally Posted by RickD

Protection my ass. People who are fighting for the right to bear arms don't want to use it for hunting, they plan on shooting someone! Period! Oh not intentional murder, just you know for protection!

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RickD I normally tend to slightly agree with you, but this statement is horendeously false and a wild aqusation

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Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies

I bet if Jesus was alive, he would carry a gun. I challenge you to prove that he would be against guns if he existed

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I think his 'turn the other cheek' motto helps put a dent in your argument

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Originally Posted by etothep

I think his 'turn the other cheek' motto helps put a dent in your argument

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jesus also said an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth....so no, jesus had lots of motto's this one is contradictary.

Unless that wasn't Jesus who said that....maybe it's just contradictary that it's in the Bible....i am not sure.

EDIT-yes, it was Jesus who said that to Johnathan

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Originally Posted by Jeffy25

jesus also said an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth....so no, jesus had lots of motto's this one is contradictary.

Unless that wasn't Jesus who said that....maybe it's just contradictary that it's in the Bible....i am not sure.

EDIT-yes, it was Jesus who said that to Johnathan

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Jesus wasn't around in the Old Testament, so I doubt it was he who said 'eye for an eye' back in Exodus. Jesus makes mention of this Old Testament ideal when saying it is better to turn one's cheek

Matthew 5:38-42 ends this discussion

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Originally Posted by RickD

Protection my ass. People who are fighting for the right to bear arms don't want to use it for hunting, they plan on shooting someone! Period!

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No.

For more than just the fact that there are certainly tons of people "fighting for the right to bear arms" specifically for hunting.



Also, why should we have to "fight" for a right THAT WE HAVE? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Jeffy25

RickD I normally tend to slightly agree with you, but this statement is horendeously false and a wild aqusation

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I stand for the right to bear arms... but I have no plans whatsoever in shooting anyone. In fact.. I dont even want to own a gun...

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Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet

I stand for the right to bear arms... but I have no plans whatsoever in shooting anyone. In fact.. I dont even want to own a gun...

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Yep. Same.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Also, why should we have to "fight" for a right THAT WE HAVE? :confused:

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Clearly the 'fight' is over how to interpret the written law.

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am2

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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

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It is obvious (to me) that the intent of this amendment is to ensure that states may maintain a militia, NOT that everybody should have a closet full of the most powerful weapon of the day.

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Originally Posted by filihok

It is obvious (to me) that the intent of this amendment is to ensure that states may maintain a militia, NOT that everybody should have a closet full of the most powerful weapon of the day.

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It's obvious to me that people can still have a right to bear arms without having a right to have a closet full of the most powerful weapons available to anybody.

Lets let all the students rig their rooms with pipebombs too so that you dont get that crazy drunk guy barging in or you get some privacy from your needy partner.

I was with my friend Amber yesterday, she has a small revolver in her car. It has never been fired, but she doesn't live in the best neighborhood and she knows how to protect herself. She locks her car, in her garage and it is under a lock and key in her sedan. But she also knows what to do when she needs to do it....which, hopefully that will never happen to her.

Fact is, everyone is against guns until something tragic and terrible happens to them.

If you have a gun and someone comes after you, attacks you, threatens your life, you will be damn happy that you have protection....which is exactly what that is...protection...if you are so against guns, get a crazy wild dog to protect you or something else.

You are against it until you need it, then you are damn happy you have it.

and why do people complain so much about gun control? I think it was in this thread where like the second post said...why don't we focus on educating our teenagers how to drive rather then worrying about if they have guns....waaaaaaay more deaths from driving accidents our age.

some of you seem to keep taking sarcasm and making irrational points. Kids on college campuses already have guns....trust me...they do.

Take those guns away from them and see how many girls get raped, how many college parties get out of control, and how many common, and simplier crimes consistently happen.

you won't **** with a dude if you think he is packing, simple

the plan isn't to give kids pipebombs, or to give them AK's or whatever crazy weapons people mentioned earlier....it is that adults, even college students, have every right to protect themselves...there is no reason that right should be waved.....why should it?

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

It's obvious to me that people can still have a right to bear arms without having a right to have a closet full of the most powerful weapons available to anybody.

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Except we know that the FF's were big into defense against the government. The 2nd amendment doesn't say anything about personal protection.

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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

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If the FF's were most concerned about defending against government, wouldn't the populace need to have similar weaponry?

It's hard to defend against this and this with this

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Originally Posted by filihok

Except we know that the FF's were big into defense against the government. The 2nd amendment doesn't say anything about personal protection.



If the FF's were most concerned about defending against government, wouldn't the populace need to have similar weaponry?

It's hard to defend against this and this with this

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we can bicker all day about what the Founding Father's wanted and expected....we can say that it should be changed, and we can argue that those rules set in place in 1776 should remain the same....etc....i have my beliefs...i think you change with the times....but personal protection with a weapon is perfectly ok....

I believe the FF's believe similar to me in the sense of a smaller gov't. They wanted to break away from Britian and their overly powerful gov't. and start a gov't. for the people that allows the people to do what they need to do....not in as many words.....

Fili you have good points, i'll give you that....but until there is some radical change that allows people to protect themselves from other people, the right to bear arms will stand.

if the bad guys couldn't get access to guns, then no, we wouldn't need them...but since they can, and since they do.....we should be allowed to protect ourselves and our loved one's

and on the sense of hunting, most hunters have been leaning toward bow hunting in recent years....i need to find the article i read this past winter about it.

But many hunters are losing an interest in rifle hunting....that bows are more challenging, fun and cost effective....

If the Founding Fathers were so concerned with defense against government (which I believe they were), I think it would be absolutely baffling to interpret their words to mean "Defense against government...and only government."

I'll tell ya somethign annoying, slightly off topic.....

Why has Family Guy's last three episodes all been completely liberally slanted and pushing their political points? They were the cartoon that didn't do that while others like South Park and American Dad would. why? it's soo annoying, almost makes it not worth watching anymore.

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Originally Posted by Jeffy25

some of you seem to keep taking sarcasm and making irrational points. Kids on college campuses already have guns....trust me...they do.

Take those guns away from them and see how many girls get raped, how many college parties get out of control, and how many common, and simplier crimes consistently happen.

you won't **** with a dude if you think he is packing, simple

the plan isn't to give kids pipebombs, or to give them AK's or whatever crazy weapons people mentioned earlier....it is that adults, even college students, have every right to protect themselves...there is no reason that right should be waved.....why should it?

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Except that it has been shown that there is essentially no link between gun ownership, or the right to carry a concealed weapon, and any reduction in crime. Increased gun ownership is associated with higher homicide rates - and nothing else changes.

Do you honestly think that someone with a gun is keeping a college party in control? I think the moment you need a gun at a party, that party is entirely out of control (and not in a good way).

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Originally Posted by kenny1234

Except that it has been shown that there is essentially no link between gun ownership, or the right to carry a concealed weapon, and any reduction in crime. Increased gun ownership is associated with higher homicide rates - and nothing else changes.

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alright, then ask yourself personally, think like a criminal...which house are you more likely to break into? the one where there is no doubt in your mind that this guy has a gun because he isn't allowed to...

or the guy's house that he could possibly have a gun because he has the legal right to....these houses are next door to each other, which one you going into?

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Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies

I bet if Jesus was alive, he would carry a gun. I challenge you to prove that he would be against guns if he existed

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In Matthew 26:52, which describes the apostle Peter drawing a sword to defend Jesus against Roman soldiers, Jesus tells him to put it away, for those who live by the sword will die by the sword!

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Originally Posted by Jeffy25

jesus also said an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth....so no, jesus had lots of motto's this one is contradictary.

Unless that wasn't Jesus who said that....maybe it's just contradictary that it's in the Bible....i am not sure.

EDIT-yes, it was Jesus who said that to Johnathan

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Actually: the eye for an eye passage is found in Leviticus in the Old Testament and in the New Testament Jesus in His Sermon on the Mount, expounded on the law. Jesus urges his followers to turn the other cheek when confronted by violence:

You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matthew 5:38–39)

The passage continues with the importance of showing forgiveness to enemies and those who harm you.