http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3264/escobar3.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by reflections
Printable View
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3264/escobar3.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by reflections
It still sucks to see he only racked up 30+ BB's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellio
I'd put him at #8 or #9 simply because he can hit singles. I'd prefer a guy who can take BB's and steal bases at my #2.
Escobar: 104 runs, 251 hits, 25 doubles, 56 RBIs, 32 walks, 34 stolen bases, 29 caught stealing, .374, .405, .443, .848
Player B: 100 runs, 221 hits, 22 doubles, 49 RBIs, 45 walks, 45 stolen bases, 25 caught stealing, .326, .374, .407, .781.
Where would you bat Player B? Well IRL he hit leadoff. He was Juan Pierre, 2004. Very similar seasons. Another comparable player to Escobar is
Escobar: 104 runs, 251 hits, 25 doubles, 56 RBIs, 32 walks, 34 stolen bases, 29 caught stealing, .374, .405, .443, .848
Player C: 111 runs, 238 hits, 22 doubles, 68 RBIs, 49 walks, 47 stolen bases, 8 caught stealing, .351, .396, .431, .827
Player C is also a player who hit leadoff all year, his entire career in fact, and aside from the SB/CS ratio is effectively the same hitter as Escobar. He is 2007 Ichiro Suzuki.
If your "guy" who can take BB's only has a .360 OBP because his batting average is only .275 how is that better? I'll take a guy batting 2nd who never walks if he can bat .350+Quote:
Originally Posted by modesto61ca
What's the difference between a BB and a single? :confused: A single is technically better because it can move runners on 2nd/3rd base.Quote:
Originally Posted by modesto61ca
And yeah I don't know how a guy with an .848 OPS is a weak hitter to you guys. I would absolutely bat him second to move the lead off guy over or bring him in from 2nd if he steals. If you have a 400+ OBP lead off hitter with considerable speed and this guy who can knock a single in roughly 4 out of 10 times you're going to score a lot of runs with the first 2 hits of the game.
Ok. Ok. Since now the discussion is about where people would put him.
Lets guess what his next season is like. Does he go down or up. The .848 OPS looks decent until you look at his previous season of .750 OPS. To be on base 286 times and score only 104 runs is bad (of course as previously stated, the hitters behind him were probably very bad.)
Not grounding into a lot of double plays improves my thought on him, but everyone has different strategies i'm assuming when they play the game.
Also
Juan Pierre. You forgot to mention he k'd only 35 times, and had 12 triples.
Ichiro. Was +39 in stolen bases, Alcides was +5. That is a big difference.
For me, he would be a 8 or 9 hitter (I say once again for me)
Just the way it is. And he would be the best 8 or 9 hitter i'd ever have, as long as he stayed on the same hitting course.
Right, but if YOU were managing, as is the case with the scenarios we're discussing, YOU could decide when to send him or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by reflections
Im at work, so i cant access my .mog from here, but the Brewers had Escobar hitting leadoff. Im actually a bit stunned how he doesnt have more runs, because Ryan Braun had an absolute monster year, and i think he was hitting at no.3. Braun had 60 HR with 130-140 RBI and with a ridiculous .380+ AVG .800+ SLG and 1.200+ OPS. Fielder also had 100+ RBI if i remember correctly. When i get home(pretty soon, it's ~4.30PM here in Finland) im gonna check who they had batting no.2.Quote:
Originally Posted by reflections
He took himself off the bases 29 times. 251 times, he was on-base without being thrown out stealing, so he scored 40.2% of the time when he didn't homer or get CS, and 36.1% of the time in all (not counting HR), keeping in his CS.
In Ichiro's record-setting 2004, he was on-base and not thrown out 292 times, and scored 31.8% of the time...30.7% of the time in all, keeping in the times he got CS.
Make of that what you will.
I think what I meant to say was that the walks and singles are the same, but if I'm putting him at #2, I'm expecting him to have a SB success rate of at least 80%, regardless of how many times he steals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyzalot
And IMHO I think it's easier to learn how to make contact than to learn patience at the plate...singles come and go, but a BB does more to the opposing pitcher (psych him out by not biting on his pitches, etc.).
His previous season where he went 14 for 17 on the basepaths shows he's not completely hopeless. His problem, I think, is picking spots. It seems that the manager sent him basically as much as possible. If you deploy his speed in favorable situations, it could be a real asset.Quote:
Originally Posted by modesto61ca
In short, for Escobar, the problem with his SB% doesn't seem to be something very inherent to him, the player, but rather, the way in which he is being used.
thats exactly where I would put him. a nice speed guy in from... with all those hits... man a VERY potent 1-2 at the top of the lineupQuote:
Originally Posted by Goldberg
anyone with a .405 obp is a solid number two hitter, especially if he has that high of an average....can he maintain? what will escobar's season look like next year? who knows, but he deserves to be a number two hitter on a very good lineup.
Why have a guy steal (and take a chance of losing the baserunner) if you have sluggers coming up after him?
I'd bat him 7th
Ok. Before we go in circles with everyone telling everyone that yes he is a great leadoff hitter or no he would be a better hitter in the 7-8-9 spot. This brings up a great question i'm curious about.
When playing a sim, do you try and build a team to what you want the team to look like (Kinda of like the Angels) or do you try and make the best use of the players you have?
Jellio, I definitely am curious about who reaped the benefits of Braun and Fielder, if it wasn't Alcides.
Agreed. I think if Escobar was on my team, and I PBP'd most of the games, he would probably attempt no more than 20 steals.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
I build the team in the way I want the team to look like, which also happens to be the way that makes best use of players. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by reflections
See my post regarding his run percentage vs. Ichiro's.Quote:
Jellio, I definitely am curious about who reaped the benefits of Braun and Fielder, if it wasn't Alcides.
All this talk of where to bat Escobar...
It is totally dependent on who your other players are.
Regarding the: do you build your team the way you want or use the players best question:
HGM is right, of course.
You start out with whatever team and try to use guys as best you can, as time goes by, it become your team with the players you want
Lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Touche, but if you were to say. Draft an expansion team. What kind of players would you pick?
I don't see you picking a free swinging team (ala the Detroit Tigers late 80's) or a speed demon team (ala The St Louis Cardinals late 80's).
Also, I read it. And I just want to see the Brewers lineup, with that much power in the middle. It must of been rolling with 100 run guys.
Also Ichiro's season. Leading RBI man. Bret Boone....83
Lol. Ok to rephrase the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
If you are picking an expansion team.
What kinda team would you pick.
A good team ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by reflections
I don't care what "type" of team it is. I would just try to maximize run scoring and maximize run prevention.
Alrighty then.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
:)
Defense and speed are cheaper (and easier to hold on to) than power. I tend to build that wayQuote:
Originally Posted by reflections
I go for speed and patience at the plate at the top, and speed at the bottom. that way my 3-6 players have a really big chance of driving in runs...Quote:
Originally Posted by reflections
With an expansion though, I would seriously be looking into my pitching...
me too, one or two solid power bats are good enough for any team to be a winner and stay cost effective.Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
On the stolen base talk, I'd like to see his skills tab, because again, just because they have a high speed rating doesn't mean they're going to steal a lot of bases or have the ability to do so. Some players have a high speed rating, but a low base stealing skill rating. People forget about this sometimes (all those extra ratings on the skills tab). That high speed rating could result in a lot of triples, instead of stolen bases.
He's obviously not going to maintain this level of performance every year, but even with a dropoff and a slight improvement up to his peak, he could start on any team.
In an expension, I would go for a good mix of players rather than focus on one or two areas over the rest.
A veteran catcher (and possibly a young/prospect catcher to backup and start 50-70 games)
Good 2B and SS defensive players.
Two contact/high OBP players to hit 1st and 2nd
Two power players to hit 3rd and 4th.
Two veteran SP and two young/prospect SP to start now
Two veteran RP and two young/prospect RP to relief now.
Fill the rest with whatever best players you can find in the draft's later rounds.
And yes, looking at Rob Deer's career stats (mentionned earlier), him hitting 4th on an expansion team or 5th on a non-expension team makes sense to me.
As for Escobar, from memory only, I recall that there is a player like that in my current sim (not on my team and not edited). He has a 99 contact, similar speed of 83 and similar eye. After five or so complete seasons, he has a .340 batting average with a .390 OBP. He got three seasons of over 100 runs if I recall.
Another player like that, but in BM09, was Gorky Hernandez. In my sim, he hit around .330 and a .360 OBP. Again with similar ratings.
As for speed, its not just about stealing bases but running the bases when the guy behind you hits.
For me, I would prefer to bat him 1st or 9th. The reason being that I like to have a 15+ home run guy in the 2 hole if possible. He would easily bat 2nd on a team where I lacked power though.
Wow... anything else? Maybe a few All-Stars or Hall of Famers while you're at it? :p I'm just kidding around. Most of the expansion drafts that I've conducted (manual ones last year and the expansion draft feature this year), you're lucky to get a couple of those items checked off your list. You can get some good star caliber players, but they're at the end of their careers and/or have low health ratings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldberg
Personally, I find this list pretty short.
By two power players I don't mean 85 to 95 rating all-stars but maybe 75 to 80 of ratings with power to hit 20-25 HR a season. In my 93 expansion draft, I selected Pete O'Brien. He was like 36 yrs old. We won 77 games; not bad for an expansion. The point is to not get humiliated in the first season and build with prospects and free agents.
Also a veteran catcher of about 32 to 35 yrs old with good D; there are a dozen available in the first round. Ain't hard to find.
Same thing with the veteran SPs and RPs. When you start a draft in 93, a SP of 75 overall will usually get you 180 IP and about 4.00 to 4.50 ERA. Again, good enough to not get crushed and humiliated in your first season.
Yeah, that's true. I concentrate on the guys with the highest health ratings. It's great if I have a pitcher that will get be 180-200+ innings, as long as he's healthy enough to get there.
I agree. Especially for starters.
SP overall of 95 with a 65 health
SP overall of 88 with a 90 health
For me, I would pay more for the 88 overall because of his health alone. I know he will be out there for 30-35 starts a year, no headache about it.
Oh hell yes, depending on their actual skill ratings (control, movement, power), I'd go with a player in the high 70's or low 80's with a 90 health rating over the first one. There's nothing more frustrating than relying on this All Star pitcher to anchor your staff and having them go down with a significant, long-term injury that knocks their rating down anyway.
Bingle appears to have found a new Health obsessed friendQuote:
Originally Posted by BINGLEBOP
I would choose a team that gets on base and does not allow runs. How does that sound?Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Worse than a team that maximizes run-scoring and run prevention, because it's an unrealistic team (ie. no team "does not allow runs").Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
Here's the Brewers lineup+stats:
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1348/escobar4.jpg
Add JJ Hardy(.264AVG 24HR 89RBI .330OPB in 484AB) to the 6 spot and take Cedeno out and you pretty much have their lineup for the year. David Murphy did hit at the no.2 spot the first two months according to the boxscores, and was moved to no.7 once Fermaint took over for Andruw Jones.
And check out Ryan Brauns sick season.... got him the ML Triple Crown. If these guys got some pitching in the offseason they could be quite a force, with 4 .300 guys at the top of the lineup and 3 good sluggers in the middle.
Hmm... My recommendation would be get more walks. Not a lot of them in that lineup, and Braun and Escobar will not repeat at that level (Most likely).Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellio
5 players have OBP's of .360 plus. Seems pretty goodQuote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies