Business as usual in Seattle
Phillippe Aumont is being made into a reliever.
Brandon Morrow is one thing. His development was already irreparably harmed by Bavasi, and he has other concerns like his diabetes....but Aumont too!?! Isn't Jack Z supposed to be the anti-Bavasi? Aumont is 20 years old with ace potential. You don't change a guy like that to a reliever unless he's proven incapable of starting for whatever reason (health, lack of secondary pitches, etc.).
From BTF:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esoteric can feel Strasburg slowly slipping away
This is insane, done seemingly for the purpose of making him MLB-ready at an earlier age by using him in a less demanding -- and vastly less valuable -- role. Unless there's something to all this that the general public doesn't yet know about (an injury, a series of reliable scouting reports, I dunno), then this is just insane.
Re: Business as usual in Seattle
WTF!?!?! I hope this does not last, I was looking forward to seeing him start....
Re: Business as usual in Seattle
Who said our bullpen was weak? Morrow/Fields/Cordero/Aumont all ready by mid-season. You wish you were a Mariners fan now!
/JackZ Insane Logic
>8( HGM already knows how mad this made me, I almost cried :(. Seriously, what was the POINT?! You better have some crazy good fire sale plan at the all-star break to make our bullpen actually be worthwhile and then after the season get Aumont the hell back to becoming a starter. >8( >8(
Quote:
Zduriencik said that when you look at Aumont's size, most notably his 6-foot-7 height, it lends itself to being a top-of-the-line reliever.
WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN!?!?!?! :confused:
AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Where was the super cool advanced metric group?!
JackZ : "Hey guys, how can we ruin this franchise today?"
Blengino : "How about today we can turn Aumont in to a reliever and I've also got a plan to start Griffey in CF and trade a package of Felix/Halman/Triunfel to the Orioles for Jeremy Guthrie."
JackZ : "Yes indeed....indeed..."
**** it, I'm gonna just root for our only good team. The Sounders FC >8(
Re: Business as usual in Seattle
No no no no no, this guy has already been annointed one of the best GMs in the game by sites like fangraphs because they use sabermetrics. I mean, they hired Tom Tango, so their organization is clearly doing so many things right and is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Business as usual in Seattle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KowboyKoop
No no no no no, this guy has already been annointed one of the best GMs in the game by sites like fangraphs because they use sabermetrics. I mean, they hired Tom Tango, so their organization is clearly doing so many things right and is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Um? The closest I could find to an article announcing him the 'king of all GM's" is this
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...l-rankings-15/
Quote:
Front Office: B
What would an organization look like if it combined one of the most respected scouts in the industry with significant input from the cream of the crop in advanced analytical techniques? We’re about to find out. There’s no questioning Zduriencik’s eye for talent, as he was one of the main cogs in the machine that built the Milwaukee Brewers. Upon his hiring, there were some fears that the Mariners were hiring another Gillick/Bavasi old school type, but that couldn’t have been further from the truth. Since the new administration took over, the M’s have hired Tom Tango (inventor of half of the cool stuff here on FanGraphs), created a Department of Baseball Research to be staffed by sabermetricians, replaced their advance scouting with a video database, and then showed how to put the new found intelligence in the organization to use, collecting significant undervalued assets, hiring an analytical coaching staff, and building a depth of talent that should allow the Mariners to surprise most people this season while simultaneously building for the future.
I don't see anything wrong in that statement, do you? I'd be interested to see a link of someone saying he's one of the best. At the moment I don't think you're 100% wrong, I just can't ever remember a time where a writer on a site said he's the best of all time.
From your posts I can gather you have an extreme hatred towards sites like this because they don't like half of the stuff the Royals do. Who can blame them? Willie Bloomquist is looking to...uhh..where is he again? Oh, right, on the bench. Well, at least the feelgood stories of the year Horacio Ramirez and Sidney Ponson finding work will be nice.
I even remember you getting mad because it took Fangraphs more than 1 hour to get a post up about the Greinke signing.
http://sportsmogul.com/vbulletin2/sh...tension&page=2
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I also enjoy that the guys at fangraphs.com have written nothing about this yet. It seemed like articles were up ripping the Royals almost immediately after the Royals made other moves, like Bloomquist and Jacobs...but god forbid they say something good about the Royals locking up Greinke when they could be writing about Russ Ohlendorf or whatever crap they got up now. Funny.
That was posted at 3:33 PM on January 26th. When did the Fangraphs post about the extension come up?
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...einke-extended
I don't know the exact time, but January 26th.
Sorry, I'm just a bid mad right now.
Re: Business as usual in Seattle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
200tang
Um? The closest I could find to an article announcing him the 'king of all GM's" is this
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...l-rankings-15/
I don't see anything wrong in that statement, do you? I'd be interested to see a link of someone saying he's one of the best. At the moment I don't think you're 100% wrong, I just can't ever remember a time where a writer on a site said he's the best of all time.
From your posts I can gather you have an extreme hatred towards sites like this because they don't like half of the stuff the Royals do. Who can blame them? Willie Bloomquist is looking to...uhh..where is he again? Oh, right, on the bench. Well, at least the feelgood stories of the year Horacio Ramirez and Sidney Ponson finding work will be nice.
I even remember you getting mad because it took Fangraphs more than 1 hour to get a post up about the Greinke signing.
http://sportsmogul.com/vbulletin2/sh...tension&page=2
That was posted at 3:33 PM on January 26th. When did the Fangraphs post about the extension come up?
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...einke-extended
I don't know the exact time, but January 26th.
Sorry, I'm just a bid mad right now.
Please, people have been all over Seattle about how all of a sudden they are doing things the right way and how their GM is great. Fangraphs is just one example.
I don't hate fangraphs because they bag on the Royals. I don't like fangraphs because they let their obsession with stats cloud their judgement. If a GM uses sabermetrics, they proclaim him great. If he doesn't, they proclaim him an idiot. That's way oversimplifying it, but that's the gist of why I don't like fangraphs that much.
Obviously nobody has literaly said he's "the best," my post was clearly a sarcastic one, but he has already been annoited a good GM when he's done NOTHING yet. I hope he does well, I ain't saying he sucks, but in general, a lot of sabermetrically-inclined people, such as fangraphs, simply stick with their own kind no matter what. If you use sabermetrics, you're a genius, if you don't, they'll call you an idiot no matter what.
Re: Business as usual in Seattle
This seems extremely premature. but keep in mind Mariano Rivera and Jonathan Papelbon were both starters in the minors too.
Re: Business as usual in Seattle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KowboyKoop
Please, people have been all over Seattle about how all of a sudden they are doing things the right way and how their GM is great. Fangraphs is just one example.
I don't hate fangraphs because they bag on the Royals. I don't like fangraphs because they let their obsession with stats cloud their judgement. If a GM uses sabermetrics, they proclaim him great. If he doesn't, they proclaim him an idiot. That's way oversimplifying it, but that's the gist of why I don't like fangraphs that much.
Obviously nobody has literaly said he's "the best," my post was clearly a sarcastic one, but he has already been annoited a good GM when he's done NOTHING yet. I hope he does well, I ain't saying he sucks, but in general, a lot of sabermetrically-inclined people, such as fangraphs, simply stick with their own kind no matter what. If you use sabermetrics, you're a genius, if you don't, they'll call you an idiot no matter what.
I think Dave Cameron's rankings of some non-"sabermetric" front offices disproves most of this. I disagreed with his Mariners ranking, sure, but I think you're going overboard here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gRYFYN1
This seems extremely premature. but keep in mind Mariano Rivera and Jonathan Papelbon were both starters in the minors too.
Rivera was 26 when he transitioned to reliever, after a failed stint in the majors as a starter. Papelbon was 25 when he officially gave up starting for good, and was moved because of a combination of shoulder problems and his wanting to stay at closer after initial success. Both very different situations than a 20 year old with 55.2 pro innings under his belt and a sky-high ceiling.
Re: Business as usual in Seattle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
Rivera was 26 when he transitioned to reliever, after a failed stint in the majors as a starter. Papelbon was 25 when he officially gave up starting for good, and was moved because of a combination of shoulder problems and his wanting to stay at closer after initial success. Both very different situations than a 20 year old with 55.2 pro innings under his belt and a sky-high ceiling.
Please a little pity for the Seattle Fans ... they've had a rough year .. I'm just trying to give them a glimmer of hope. (Im mean Ichiro on the DL and Silva is your game two starter - for god's sake)
P.S. i really did/do think this is an awful move, even under any circumstance I wouldn't transition a pitcher from starter to reilver in the minors and only rarely - under extreme circumstance in the majors.
Re: Business as usual in Seattle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
I think Dave Cameron's rankings of some non-"sabermetric" front offices disproves most of this. I disagreed with his Mariners ranking, sure, but I think you're going overboard here.
.
Well, I'm not trying to just talk about fangraphs, that was just the current example. I do agree that Cameron didn't show much of what I am talking about, but I still think that there is an overriding bias in the "sabermetric community," if you will. If someone uses sabermetrics, they are smart. If they don't, they are dumb. I think that feeling is prevalent among a lot of them, that doesn't mean every single person who writes for fangraphs or BP or whatever is like that.
Obviously my original post was in a mocking tone and contained some sarcasm, it shouldn't be taken 100% literally.
Re: Business as usual in Seattle
I think, more often than not, the prevailing notion is, "If somebody is open to a wide variety of information, new and old, they are smart. If somebody has a completely closed mind to anything that may contradict what they've been brought up to believe and ridicules those that enjoying learning, they are dumb," and I don't disagree with that. It's what makes me think Steve Phillips and Joe Morgan are dumb, and Jon Miller not, even though Miller isn't really the least bit "sabermetric."
Re: Business as usual in Seattle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
I think, more often than not, the prevailing notion is, "If somebody is open to a wide variety of information, new and old, they are smart. If somebody has a completely closed mind to anything that may contradict what they've been brought up to believe and ridicules those that enjoying learning, they are dumb," and I don't disagree with that. It's what makes me think Steve Phillips and Joe Morgan are dumb, and Jon Miller not, even though Miller isn't really the least bit "sabermetric."
I agree that the way you put it is the way it should be, but I don't think many in the "sabermetric community" come across that way. I think they come across as extremely condescending and mean a lot of times, and that's not the way to spread their knowledge to new people. That's my gripe. I follow sabermetrics and like it, but it doesn't tell the entire story and isn't "gospel," however, some of them act like it is and if you don't already know about it or 100% buy into it, you're somehow inferior.
That's the feeling I get from a lot of them and I don't think that's a good way for sabermetrics to spread.
To conclude, yes, Steve Phillips and Joe Morgan are very dumb. At least Morgan has the excuse of being fairly old (mid 60s right?). Phillips...he's just a lost cause.
Re: Business as usual in Seattle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KowboyKoop
I
To conclude, yes, Steve Phillips and Joe Morgan are very dumb. At least Morgan has the excuse of being fairly old (mid 60s right?). Phillips...he's just a lost cause.
I don't fully agree, while Phillips or Morgan can easily be described as ignorant or obstinate - neither of those are expressly dumb.
Although that's much more a semantic issue, I think that the use of dumb indicates that they are unintelligent, which i don't really think is true of either.
Re: Business as usual in Seattle
If you're willfully ignorant, to me, that makes you dumb. And Joe Morgan is the king of willfully ignorant.
Re: Business as usual in Seattle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
If you're willfully ignorant, to me, that makes you dumb. And Joe Morgan is the king of willfully ignorant.
That is the signal for a Joe Morgan appearance in this thread*
