Fixing America's WBC approach for 2013

Looking over the rosters previous to the 2009 WBC - while knowing little to nothing about Japan or Korea, other than the fact that MLB is superior to NPB, let alone KBO and Chinese baseball - I felt pretty certain in my own opinion that the American team was clearly superior, and should be the favorite to take it all. The Latin American teams were, of course, loaded with talent, but the American squad was clearly the best overall on paper. Spectacular hitting, very good infield defense, top quality starting pitching, and a tremendous and deep bullpen.

So what happened? It can be written off to the simple notion that anything can happen in one baseball game, but I think it was more than that. I think what we saw in the semifinals and finals is a Japanese team that was fundamentally sound, had very deep pitching in its own right, but also used its pitching staff properly, played top notch defense in the outfield as well as in the infield, and won their games with strategy, speed, attention to the basics, and the desire to win.

The problems have been speculated over on these forums, on TV, in print, by people I discuss baseball with in real life. Here's a few ideas I'd be all in favor of:

1) Consider holding the tournament at a different time of year. I've heard it suggested that July would be a good time, but I think it would make for too long an All Star break, and I also think teams would be wary about giving up players with potential for injury midseason. I think November would be a great time, and would give us another few weeks of exciting baseball after the World Series is over. I don't think this would be catering strictly to America, and would benefit any nation (most of them) that has MLB players on its roster. I've heard that Cuba puts the breaks on its season for the WBC, and that Korea and Japan begin preparations earlier in the season. America is caught with its pants down, in a way. If this thing only happens every 3 to 4 years, why don't we get serious about it, at least?

2) Compensate teams and players for participation, and alleviate their fears of injury. Perhaps the MLB kicks in a luxury tax credit to teams whose players participate... perhaps the MLB pays the players some salary for the time they spend in the tournament, or gives some money to charity in their name.

Another idea that I've come up with (I may not be the only one) is that MLB could purchase insurance for the participating players' contracts. This would probably have to be in lieu of player or team compensation, but could go a long way in making owners less afraid to encourage player participation. Maybe Sabathia and Teixeira take part if this little idea had been in play for 2009. In addition, maybe MLB could provide compensation draft picks, somewhere in the middle-to-high rounds, for teams who are affected by WBC-related injuries, or late round compensation picks for teams based on player performance. This would apply not only to America, but to all countries.

Moreover, make sure (this is for the USA team), that the best players we can get are out there. Bud Selig acknowledged this should be the case... THE DAY AFTER AMERICA LOST TO JAPAN. Too little, too late.

3) Change the management style. Make it clear that this is not an All Star game, and that players aren't there so they can get an AB against a Chinese pitcher, or throw against a few Australian hitters just so they can say they did it. Try to avoid the manager being handcuffed by teams that are conducting their regular business back home. No more of this "Please make sure you stretch Oswalt tonight. He should be throwing 5+ innings at this time" type of nonsense. No more starting Jeter at SS over Rollins just because he's Jeter. In fact, why wasn't Longoria the DH and Rollins the SS in that game? But I digress...

4) For the love of God, look at the success of other teams in international play and adjust. The Koreans and Japanese have been phenomenal with lesser talent because they come prepared and because their teams are serious and play fundamentally sound baseball. Japan's outfield defense made America's outfield defense look pedestrian. Consider dropping players with huge holes in their game (example: Adam Dunn and his defense and lack of tendency for contact) for players who are solid all around (Matt Kemp, Nick Markakis, Nate McLouth). More Mark DeRosa types, fewer Ryan Howard types.

Thoughts?

I think that changing the management style is a great idea, but I'm not thinking in terms of the actual decision-making, but rather in the leadership style. Most managers nowdays are tacticians, not leaders.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joe12Pack

1) Consider holding the tournament at a different time of year. I've heard it suggested that July would be a good time, but I think it would make for too long an All Star break, and I also think teams would be wary about giving up players with potential for injury midseason. I think November would be a great time, and would give us another few weeks of exciting baseball after the World Series is over. I don't think this would be catering strictly to America, and would benefit any nation (most of them) that has MLB players on its roster. I've heard that Cuba puts the breaks on its season for the WBC, and that Korea and Japan begin preparations earlier in the season. America is caught with its pants down, in a way. If this thing only happens every 3 to 4 years, why don't we get serious about it, at least?

---

I would think this would be great for America but I would think its a disadvantage to the other teams. Japan and Korea have shorter seasons that end a month or a month and a half earlier. Cuba has a winter season and I'm not sure when theirs start but I'm sure they would be in the same situation the Americans are in now with players not being ready.

And just because one country isn't ready for a tournament and that they are unwilling to get ready early, the whole tournament should not be altered. Americans aren't special and they don't get to change everything so it suits them; just get ready earlier. Japan, Korea and Cuba had real, serious practices before the tournament and were committed to the cause. America just needs to find players that will commit for a month or so of practices and workouts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by asianinvasion

I would think this would be great for America but I would think its a disadvantage to the other teams. Japan and Korea have shorter seasons that end a month or a month and a half earlier. Cuba has a winter season and I'm not sure when theirs start but I'm sure they would be in the same situation the Americans are in now with players not being ready.

---

This is why I'm not so sure about locking in November, however...

Quote:

---

And just because one country isn't ready for a tournament and that they are unwilling to get ready early, the whole tournament should not be altered. Americans aren't special and they don't get to change everything so it suits them; just get ready earlier. Japan, Korea and Cuba had real, serious practices before the tournament and were committed to the cause. America just needs to find players that will commit for a month or so of practices and workouts.

---

While I agree with "Americans aren't special," I have to point out that MLB runs the WBC, and quite frankly, MLB is the crown jewel of baseball worldwide. It's not so much something to do to suit America, but something to do to suit the league with the superior talent. The Latin American countries would also benefit, so would Canada.

For that matter, Japan and Korea aren't special either, so why should the November time frame (inconvenient for their leagues) be completely ruled out?

That said, I'm still firm in my belief that, if the time is unchangeable, team USA really should get on top of things earlier on, and should make sure their players are ready to go. Name the squad, send it to winter ball in a Caribbean league for some exhibitions starting a few weeks prior.

I think putting it in November would result in even less star players from the majors playing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joe12Pack

For that matter, Japan and Korea aren't special either, so why should the November time frame (inconvenient for their leagues) be completely ruled out?

---

Well, right now, the only team the current schedule is apparently inconvenient is the USA and maybe the DR to an extent. If the Venezuelans with their mostly Major League club can figure it out, I'm sure the Americans can too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by asianinvasion

Well, right now, the only team the current schedule is apparently inconvenient is the USA and maybe the DR to an extent. If the Venezuelans with their mostly Major League club can figure it out, I'm sure the Americans can too.

---

And Canada, and Panama, and the Dutch.

You have to admit that during spring training is kind of an inconvenient time for the league that contains at least 3/4 - and that's a conservative estimate - of the world's premier talent. It just so happens the entire American squad (as well as the majority of the DR squad) is MLB players.

Catering to Japan and Korea with a time frame would be like catering to Australia, New Zealand and South Africa for the Summer Olympics.

1. Play the games closer together. Rather than a 39 game tournament where each team plays a maximum of 8 games over a 17 day span, do each of the following:
a) The only off days should be between rounds.
b) Get rid of the seeding games. Just have the team with the best record the first seed, second best record the second seed.
c) In the event of a tie due to lack of seeding games, then head-to-head record determines tie break. (Only pertains to round. If Japan and Korea tie in Round 2, the only head-to-head record that matters is the second round game).

That would cut down the length of the tournament from 17 days to 11 days. While I know 6 days isn't a huge difference, it would still make a difference to a lot of major league teams.

2. Fine teams that don't allow their players to play. Don't fine the player, after all it is his decision, but if the player accepts the invitation and the team doesn't allow them to go, the team should be fined a certain amount. Nothing major, maybe 50,000. That way, teams cannot hold back star players simply because they don't want them to go. At some point the teams have to realize that the nation means more than a team.

3. For just the USA, another thing they can do to avoid MLB teams getting upset that their guy doesn't get enough at-bats is to have a real TEAM, and not a group of all-stars playing together. Rather than having Chris Iannetta and Brian McCann platoon, have the backup catcher be Chris Snyder, or Mike Matheny. Players who don't necessarily need major playing time now.

4. When the US puts together this TEAM, make sure its well rounded. Absolutely no players like Adam Dunn unless he's DHing, because his defense was absolutely horrendous. Another problem was we had no right fielder, and were forced to put Adam Dunn out there. Players shouldn't be forced to play out of position; guys like Corey Hart and Brad Hawpe could play instead and provide the boost defensively.

5. Have this team compete the same way the NBA Olympic teams do it. Have them play together over winter. Have them compete in a world tournament or two (providing they don't conflict with the MLB schedule). That way, when it comes time for the tournament that matters, the WBC, the team will know each other much better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 5dodgers5

1. Play the games closer together. Rather than a 39 game tournament where each team plays a maximum of 8 games over a 17 day span, do each of the following:
a) The only off days should be between rounds.
b) Get rid of the seeding games. Just have the team with the best record the first seed, second best record the second seed.
c) In the event of a tie due to lack of seeding games, then head-to-head record determines tie break. (Only pertains to round. If Japan and Korea tie in Round 2, the only head-to-head record that matters is the second round game).

That would cut down the length of the tournament from 17 days to 11 days. While I know 6 days isn't a huge difference, it would still make a difference to a lot of major league teams.

---

GREAT ideas, and this is something I totally overlooked. The games are spread out too much, and tied in with your 5th idea, this makes a lot of sense. Condense the tournament, play 4 games in 5 days. The seeding games are stupid and pointless... since there's no actual home field, just flip a coin to seed, or allow the 2-0 team to get the top seed over the 2-1 team.

6 days is a massive difference... that cuts the time of this thing by over 1/3.

Quote:

---

2. Fine teams that don't allow their players to play. Don't fine the player, after all it is his decision, but if the player accepts the invitation and the team doesn't allow them to go, the team should be fined a certain amount. Nothing major, maybe 50,000. That way, teams cannot hold back star players simply because they don't want them to go. At some point the teams have to realize that the nation means more than a team.

---

I'd prefer giving compensation (in the form of insured salaries and draft picks... although this idea is expensive and screws with the draft a bit) over fining teams, especially if it's a minor fine. I understand why the Yankees - who put up huge sums of money to get great players in the Bronx - don't want to put their players on the line. The Yankees would absolutely accept a $50,000 penalty, so I'm not sure a small fine idea works. Just compensate teams, and alleviate their fears for injury.

Quote:

---

3. For just the USA, another thing they can do to avoid MLB teams getting upset that their guy doesn't get enough at-bats is to have a real TEAM, and not a group of all-stars playing together. Rather than having Chris Iannetta and Brian McCann platoon, have the backup catcher be Chris Snyder, or Mike Matheny. Players who don't necessarily need major playing time now.

4. When the US puts together this TEAM, make sure its well rounded. Absolutely no players like Adam Dunn unless he's DHing, because his defense was absolutely horrendous. Another problem was we had no right fielder, and were forced to put Adam Dunn out there. Players shouldn't be forced to play out of position; guys like Corey Hart and Brad Hawpe could play instead and provide the boost defensively.

---

I love these ideas too, and though I hate to say it, I agree 100% with what Steve Phillips has said. Put some role player/utility type guys on the bench. Have a pinch hitting slugger (Matt Stairs) and a guy who can play all over (Willie Blomquist) around, instead of having 7 starting, top tier quality infielders and 5 or 6 30+ HR outfielders on the team. Make Team USA a TEAM. You can still load it as if it were an All Star team, but insert a couple of guys who make sense for a team. Adam Dunn was a complete joke in this tourney, and had no business dragging his ass around in RF while the Japanese were slapping singles and doubles here and there. With the way they play the game, I wouldn't be surprised if their game plan was actually to hit it his way, much like a football team can pick on an unexperienced, subpar cornerback by throwing in his direction.

Quote:

---

5. Have this team compete the same way the NBA Olympic teams do it. Have them play together over winter. Have them compete in a world tournament or two (providing they don't conflict with the MLB schedule). That way, when it comes time for the tournament that matters, the WBC, the team will know each other much better.

---

Another great idea, and I mentioned something similar. A few games in a Latin American winter league would get everyone prepared as if they had played their first week or two of ST games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joe12Pack

top quality starting pitching,

---

What pitching staff were you looking at? After Oswalt/Peavy it was mediocre with Lily and Guthrie.

Quote:

---

1) Consider holding the tournament at a different time of year.

---

I'd like to see it after the playoffs. I've heard people talking about that would give an unfair advantage to the ones in the playoffs and my response to that would be just have exhibition games 2 or 3times a week for the other teams to keep them somewhat 'fresh'.

Quote:

---

2) Compensate teams and players for participation, and alleviate their fears of injury. Perhaps the MLB kicks in a luxury tax credit to teams whose players participate... perhaps the MLB pays the players some salary for the time they spend in the tournament, or gives some money to charity in their name.

---

I'm sort of mixed about this. I don't think the World Cup does any of this and if not I don't think baseball should either.

Quote:

---

Another idea that I've come up with (I may not be the only one) is that MLB could purchase insurance for the participating players' contracts. This would probably have to be in lieu of player or team compensation, but could go a long way in making owners less afraid to encourage player participation. In addition, maybe MLB could provide compensation draft picks, somewhere in the middle-to-high rounds, for teams who are affected by WBC-related injuries, or late round compensation picks for teams based on player performance. This would apply not only to America, but to all countries.

---

If there's some sort of insurance that the players would possibly lose some salary then I'd also like to see bonuses for a WBC selection. That would also help players decide to play in the WBC when the time came around. Not sure about the compensation though, I wouldn't be opposed to it though.

Quote:

---

3) Change the management style. Make it clear that this is not an All Star game, and that players aren't there so they can get an AB against a Chinese pitcher, or throw against a few Australian hitters just so they can say they did it. Try to avoid the manager being handcuffed by teams that are conducting their regular business back home. No more of this "Please make sure you stretch Oswalt tonight. He should be throwing 5+ innings at this time" type of nonsense. No more starting Jeter at SS over Rollins just because he's Jeter. In fact, why wasn't Longoria the DH and Rollins the SS in that game? But I digress...

---

Yeah it seemed like the USA was trying to use EVERY PLAYER and get them AB's. If you're not gonna play correctly then why bother?

Quote:

---

4) For the love of God, look at the success of other teams in international play and adjust. The Koreans and Japanese have been phenomenal with lesser talent because they come prepared and because their teams are serious and play fundamentally sound baseball. Japan's outfield defense made America's outfield defense look pedestrian. Consider dropping players with huge holes in their game (example: Adam Dunn and his defense and lack of tendency for contact) for players who are solid all around (Matt Kemp, Nick Markakis, Nate McLouth). More Mark DeRosa types, fewer Ryan Howard types.

---

I think a lot of that had to do with who wanted to play. The fact that Derek Jeter was getting starts over Jimmy Rollins was far worse then letting Adam Dunn play.

After deliberating with my dad who also wants to see change in the WBC, here's what we came up with. We'll be following Pool A, but know that Pools B, C, and D are doing the same things on the same days. (The teams are just placeholders). Double elimination format

Day 1- Japan vs. Korea, China vs. Chinese Taipei
Day 2- Winner (Japan) vs. Winner (China), Loser (Korea) vs. Loser (Taipei)
Day 3- Winner of Game 1 (Japan) off day. Loser of Game 1 (China) vs. Winner of Game 2 (Korea). Loser of Game 2 (Taipei) goes home.
Day 4- Travel/Off Day
Day 5- Japan vs. Venezuela. Korea vs. Cuba
Day 6- (Winner) Japan vs. (Winner) Cuba. Venezuela vs. Korea
Day 7- (Loser) Cuba vs. (Winner) Korea. Venezuela goes home, Japan gets off day.
Day 8- Travel/Off Day
Day 9- Semifinals: Japan vs. Dominican Republic. USA vs. Cuba
Day 10- Off day
Day 11- USA vs. Japan. Finals.

11 days, with numerous off days. No team will play more than three days in a row, some teams will play two days and then get days off (if they win both of their games).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 200tang

What pitching staff were you looking at? After Oswalt/Peavy it was mediocre with Lily and Guthrie.

---

In this tournament, you don't need much more than a 1-2. Besides, look at Korea's (the team that finished 2nd) pitching staff. One MLB failure and a bunch of other guys.

Quote:

---

I'm sort of mixed about this. I don't think the World Cup does any of this and if not I don't think baseball should either.

---

Comparing the World Cup to the WBC is like comparing... well, I can't even think of a proper comparison. They're worlds apart. The World Cup is something that ALL nations and ALL football clubs are prepared for because of the history and the prevalence of the event. The WBC is still looked at as an afterthought, and international baseball is somewhere between dying out and growing. Consider that it was removed from the Olympics recently, and the reluctance of professional athletes to consider showing up for international competition.

Quote:

---

I think a lot of that had to do with who wanted to play. The fact that Derek Jeter was getting starts over Jimmy Rollins was far worse then letting Adam Dunn play.

---

I think the Adam Dunn debacle was the biggest pock on Team USA. The Japanese won with quick-footed and quick-handed great-fielding outfielders that could move a runner over with a 2-1 count and slide at bloop hits and bullet them into second base in one fluid motion. If we're talking 162 games, give me Adam Dunn. If we're talking one very close game where pitching and defense have to be superb, and where we're playing against teams whose cleanup hitters are no more powerful than a Matt Kemp or a Nick Markakis, give me the Kemp/Markakis, leave Dunn at home.

But yeah, this "team leader has gotta be in the infield captaining things and grinding it out and blah blah blah" thing with Jeter is also a huge joke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 5dodgers5

After deliberating with my dad who also wants to see change in the WBC, here's what we came up with. We'll be following Pool A, but know that Pools B, C, and D are doing the same things on the same days. (The teams are just placeholders). Double elimination format

Day 1- Japan vs. Korea, China vs. Chinese Taipei
Day 2- Winner (Japan) vs. Winner (China), Loser (Korea) vs. Loser (Taipei)
Day 3- Winner of Game 1 (Japan) off day. Loser of Game 1 (China) vs. Winner of Game 2 (Korea). Loser of Game 2 (Taipei) goes home.
Day 4- Travel/Off Day
Day 5- Japan vs. Venezuela. Korea vs. Cuba
Day 6- (Winner) Japan vs. (Winner) Cuba. Venezuela vs. Korea
Day 7- (Loser) Cuba vs. (Winner) Korea. Venezuela goes home, Japan gets off day.
Day 8- Travel/Off Day
Day 9- Semifinals: Japan vs. Dominican Republic. USA vs. Cuba
Day 10- Off day
Day 11- USA vs. Japan. Finals.

11 days, with numerous off days. No team will play more than three days in a row, some teams will play two days and then get days off (if they win both of their games).

---

If the asian teams play in asia, they would have to start early. One day rest for a cross-pacific trip is not enough. I don't see a need for an offday before the finals. The quickers its over the better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gosensgo101

If the asian teams play in asia, they would have to start early. One day rest for a cross-pacific trip is not enough. I don't see a need for an offday before the finals. The quickers its over the better.

---

There should probably be no Asia games. Just get everyone together in the same country from the start.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joe12Pack

In this tournament, you don't need much more than a 1-2. Besides, look at Korea's (the team that finished 2nd) pitching staff. One MLB failure and a bunch of other guys.

---

True, but the 'powerhouse' nations had better pitching staffs in my mind than the USA. If any team had pitching to gain from players who didn't participate it would've been Venezuela with Johan Santana and Carlos Zambrano. That would've been a sick 1-2-3 with Felix.

Quote:

---

Comparing the World Cup to the WBC is like comparing... well, I can't even think of a proper comparison. They're worlds apart. The World Cup is something that ALL nations and ALL football clubs are prepared for because of the history and the prevalence of the event. The WBC is still looked at as an afterthought, and international baseball is somewhere between dying out and growing. Consider that it was removed from the Olympics recently, and the reluctance of professional athletes to consider showing up for international competition.

---

I knew I'd get this comparison but I dont know....it seems like that's what they're aiming for so I thought I would use it as an example. I'm not saying I would be opposed to giving baseball teams taxes or something for compensation, but I just don't get why it's needed. If one sport can do it why not baseball?

Quote:

---

IMatt Kemp or a Nick Markakis, give me the Kemp/Markakis, leave Dunn at home.

---

Even in a 162 game season I'd take those guys over Dunn. Did they ask those guys to play though?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 200tang

True, but the 'powerhouse' nations had better pitching staffs in my mind than the USA. If any team had pitching to gain from players who didn't participate it would've been Venezuela with Johan Santana and Carlos Zambrano. That would've been a sick 1-2-3 with Felix.

---

Seriously, the USA couldn't benefit from players who didn't participate?

Lincecum/Sabathia/Webb(or Peavy) > Santana/Zambrano/Felix (by FAR).

Quote:

---

I knew I'd get this comparison but I dont know....it seems like that's what they're aiming for so I thought I would use it as an example. I'm not saying I would be opposed to giving baseball teams taxes or something for compensation, but I just don't get why it's needed. If one sport can do it why not baseball?

---

I understand the comparison you made and why you made it, but in context it just seems silly. The World Cup is prestigious, and it really means something. Especially since soccer is a thing of pride, and there's no clearcut favorite. The point of the WBC is that it's building pride among nations, and establishing the sport internationally. Anyone with half a brain (in baseball terms) knows that America should be knocking the crap out of all the other teams in baseball... save maybe the DR and Japan, where we wouldn't be mopping the floor with them, but would still be beating them soundly in a vacuum. But we're lazy about it because it doesn't matter.

The fact that America dominates softball so much is one of the main speculated reasons that baseball and softball have been removed from the IOC's list of events. By my own argument that America should be winning year in, year out, maybe there shouldn't be a WBC at all...

Quote:

---

Even in a 162 game season I'd take those guys over Dunn. Did they ask those guys to play though?

---

I'd take them over Dunn in 162 also, I guess, unless I needed a DH and already had outfielders. I was just trying to say, Dunn has great value, but in this type of competition, he's obviously inferior to Kemp or Markakis, especially since Japan has 3 of those types of guys in their outfield.

I'm not sure if they were asked to play... if not, they most certainly should have been.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joe12Pack

Seriously, the USA couldn't benefit from players who didn't participate?

Lincecum/Sabathia/Webb(or Peavy) > Santana/Zambrano/Felix (by FAR).

---

I didn't say they didn't have anything to gain, just that Zambrano and Santana are far and away better than Carlos Silva and Victor Zambrano by far.

Quote:

---

I understand the comparison you made and why you made it, but in context it just seems silly. The World Cup is prestigious, and it really means something. Especially since soccer is a thing of pride, and there's no clearcut favorite. The point of the WBC is that it's building pride among nations, and establishing the sport internationally. Anyone with half a brain (in baseball terms) knows that America should be knocking the crap out of all the other teams in baseball... save maybe the DR and Japan, where we wouldn't be mopping the floor with them, but would still be beating them soundly in a vacuum. But we're lazy about it because it doesn't matter.

The fact that America dominates softball so much is one of the main speculated reasons that baseball and softball have been removed from the IOC's list of events. By my own argument that America should be winning year in, year out, maybe there shouldn't be a WBC at all...

---

I really hate this though because nobody knows anything about these other teams and the assumption seems to be "America is duh best". Sure they have one of the best teams in the WBC, but I don't think they have the best team if every nation had every player available to them. The fact that the major leagues has a very large amount of players born in other countries should prove that point enough. Even the All-Star game is comprised of many latin/asian players. Again, I'm not saying America sucks, but the thought that America is far and away the best team is a little funny to me. I thought the idea of the tournament was to show what other nations are all about and that America isn't always top dog.

Oh, and also, just because a league is better doesn't mean their best 9-10 starters are better. Ichiro came over and was better than most players here so it isn't a stretch to imagine that their best players are on par or better than the best USA players.

Also, my guess is if you took out all players born in other countries from the major leagues and put them back in their respective country, America wouldn't have the best league or at least not by that much. That should further illustrate the point that USA does have very good talent, but not leagues above the rest that they should be winning tournament after tournament.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 5dodgers5

2. Fine teams that don't allow their players to play. Don't fine the player, after all it is his decision, but if the player accepts the invitation and the team doesn't allow them to go, the team should be fined a certain amount. Nothing major, maybe 50,000. That way, teams cannot hold back star players simply because they don't want them to go. At some point the teams have to realize that the nation means more than a team.

---

If I'm running the team, it is NEVER going to be nation over team, because if something happens to a star player in the WBC that kills my team, guess what...the manager of the WBC team isn't the one about to get fired over it. And from the owner's standpoint, if I'm the one paying this guy, he's playing for ME.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 200tang

I really hate this though because nobody knows anything about these other teams and the assumption seems to be "America is duh best".

---

I think it's pretty clear, as it's now 2009 and we have a much, much better idea of world baseball than we ever did, that MLB has the best talent, and more importantly, the DEEPEST talent. I really doubt Japanese fringe players would last very long even in American minor leagues.

Quote:

---

Sure they have one of the best teams in the WBC, but I don't think they have the best team if every nation had every player available to them.

---

Show me a better team on paper.

Quote:

---

The fact that the major leagues has a very large amount of players born in other countries should prove that point enough.

---

Not really, since the majority of them are Americans, and since the Americans are generally better (if you were to take, say, the top 50 to 100 players in MLB) than any other country, by far.

Quote:

---

Even the All-Star game is comprised of many latin/asian players.

---

Yet still mostly Americans, even with the population of said Latin/Asian nations far and away overwhelming the population of the United States.

Quote:

---

Again, I'm not saying America sucks, but the thought that America is far and away the best team is a little funny to me. I thought the idea of the tournament was to show what other nations are all about and that America isn't always top dog.

---

I think it's really hard to argue that any of the other teams in the WBC were better than the American team, on paper. Once again, it's pretty plain to see that America played like junk, didn't field the best team they could have (where all the other countries did, mostly), and didn't take the thing as seriously as certain other teams did.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 200tang

Oh, and also, just because a league is better doesn't mean their best 9-10 starters are better. Ichiro came over and was better than most players here so it isn't a stretch to imagine that their best players are on par or better than the best USA players.

---

I'm not going to claim to be an expert, but from what I understand, the quality of NPB play is something along the lines of just above American AAA, with a fair handful of players who could not only succeed in MLB, but excel. Also, it's worth noting that NPB has a much smaller player pool than MLB does. While I see NPB's top 10, maybe 15 percentile being viable MLB players with a few All Stars, I don't think their 20 and onward percentile being more than bubble guys to make 25 man rosters, if even 40 man rosters in MLB.

This isn't being blindly pro-American, it's just being as honest and realistic as I can be, knowing what I know.

I think it is a stretch to imagine that their players are on par, especially better, considering that Ichiro was their best hitter, and has never been the best hitter in MLB... not even close.

DiceK was one of their top pitchers, but is probably not even a top 15 in America. What could Darvish do? I could see him being a top 5 pitcher in MLB, but I think that'd be a rare instance of a Japanese player being one among the truly best in America.

Quote:

---

Also, my guess is if you took out all players born in other countries from the major leagues and put them back in their respective country, America wouldn't have the best league or at least not by that much. That should further illustrate the point that USA does have very good talent, but not leagues above the rest that they should be winning tournament after tournament.

---

I really doubt this. Looking at the talent as we can best evaluate it (without just guessing that there's some mysticism in Japanese baseball that puts them at quality level x on account of the benefit of some weird doubt), the talent goes like this:

America
(big gap)
Dominican
(kinda big gap)
Japan, Venezuela
(small gap)
Pamana, Puerto Rico, Canada, Mexico
(kinda big gap)
Curacao, Korea
(big gap)
Everyone else

This is based on looking at the past, say, 20 years in MLB, focusing mainly on the past 10 years. I mean, come on... Japan's cleanup hitter last night is a below average hitter in MLB. I don't want to hear that Japan is right up there with America. They may have won a tournament, but the whole purpose of this post is, America has the superior talent, all things considered, and they screwed up in the tournament.

Not to mention a whole lot of these "Latin American" players are actually from America...

I know I am going to get creamed or worse called "Metsguy", but I think its just better if the WBC goes away, I never liked it.

First off, it doesnt have enough publicity to make it worth watching. If you want to make it interesting, show it on a major network instead of ESPN. Thats the main reason it will never be popular. Heck, its so insignificant, you dont even here about who wins the darn thing. Or at least I havent, and I have a couple friends you would call, "Baseball Fanatics." Well maybe they arent because they dont watch the WBC.

The injury factor is a turn off as well. It hasnt happened to anyone notable yet, but just the fact its there for such a meaningless event scares me. I would be pissed off to hear that one of our key players is out the year because of something without so much meaning.

But without trying to be a negative nancy so much, one thing I would find interesting if they so choose, was to maybe have the College World Series champs be the USA team. Its not really that great of an idea I know, but it fits in a way just because of the fact the WBC isnt that highly anticipated.

EDIT: So my way to fix it, is to get rid of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arctic Blast

If I'm running the team, it is NEVER going to be nation over team, because if something happens to a star player in the WBC that kills my team, guess what...the manager of the WBC team isn't the one about to get fired over it. And from the owner's standpoint, if I'm the one paying this guy, he's playing for ME.

---

My dad made the same argument today, that the almighty dollar will always win over the national flag/banner... I think that's simply ridiculous. The World Baseball Classic should take precedence over a meaningless season once compared to a game played on a national level. Congratulations, you win the World Series! You are the best team in America (and one team in Canada)! Now prove to the REST OF THE WORLD you Americans are truly better at baseball. So far we haven't done that. So far, Cuba, Venezuela, Japan, and Korea are all better at baseball than us Americans. That's just disgraceful. It's that kind of me-first thinking that will ruin our nation and the entire world one day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 5dodgers5

My dad made the same argument today, that the almighty dollar will always win over the national flag/banner... I think that's simply ridiculous. The World Baseball Classic should take precedence over a meaningless season once compared to a game played on a national level. Congratulations, you win the World Series! You are the best team in America (and one team in Canada)! Now prove to the REST OF THE WORLD you Americans are truly better at baseball. So far we haven't done that. So far, Cuba, Venezuela, Japan, and Korea are all better at baseball than us Americans. That's just disgraceful. It's that kind of me-first thinking that will ruin our nation and the entire world one day.

---

Hopefully we wont be alive to see it, but it seems to be happening sooner rather than later. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joe12Pack

America
(big gap)
Dominican
(kinda big gap)
Japan, Venezuela
(small gap)
Pamana, Puerto Rico, Canada, Mexico
(kinda big gap)
Curacao, Korea
(big gap)
Everyone else
.

---

EDIT : How did you even come up with this list? Did you just go count how many major leaguers each team has or something? I'd really like to know.

Uhh? Where the hell is Cuba? 'everyone else' ? That's the thing, a lot of Americans just point out the fact that we have all the big names without doing any real research on any team before they declare themselves the best team. There's a strong possibility they did have the best team this WBC, but the fact that you put such a huge gap over them and basically every team is a little funny. I'd like to hear you name 5 players from the Cuba team off the top of your head and what position they play. My guess is you can't do it.

Also, you keep referring to our league being the best. You fail to understand that it isn't the league you're going up against but the best players from each nation regardless of where they're playing. The Dominican and USA are far closer than you think they are.

1B : Pujols (Best player in the game right now)
2B : Robinson Cano (not as good as Roberts or Utley but still good)
SS : Hanley Ramirez (defense is questionable but everything makes up for it and is the best SS in the game in some minds)
3B : Alex Rodriguez (On decline but still one of the bets)
OF : Nelson Cruz, Willy Taveras, Jose Guillen (Basically average players with some nice skills)
C : I don't know anything about any of them honestly.

Bench/DH : David Ortiz, Jose Reyes, Miguel Tejada, Willy Aybar (You can replace A-Rod with Reyes or Tejada if you want but it's still a great 3B/bench)

I'm not gonna go in depth on pitching but they have some nice talent there. So how is it that America seems to have such a huge gap over them? Even if America had better players in every position I can't imagine them being THAT big.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ragecage

First off, it doesnt have enough publicity to make it worth watching. If you want to make it interesting, show it on a major network instead of ESPN.

---

By that argument, if I'm flipping thru the channels on my TV and come across a movie that looks interesting, it's not worth watching if the station didn't hype it enough (however much "enough" might be). And when it comes to sports programming, ESPN is a major network--though I gotta admit that it would help if all the games were on ESPN or at least ESPN2 instead of a bunch of them being on ESPN Deportes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dps

By that argument, if I'm flipping thru the channels on my TV and come across a movie that looks interesting, it's not worth watching if the station didn't hype it enough (however much "enough" might be). And when it comes to sports programming, ESPN is a major network--though I gotta admit that it would help if all the games were on ESPN or at least ESPN2 instead of a bunch of them being on ESPN Deportes.

---

thats if everyone had cable, not everyone has it. If anything why not show it through ABC, I mean that is affiliated with ESPN is it not? Even showing commercials through ABC would help, advertise, hype it up and make it viable is all im saying. Its not happening through the avenue they are taking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 200tang

EDIT : How did you even come up with this list? Did you just go count how many major leaguers each team has or something? I'd really like to know.

---

Of course I'm going by major leaguers. Because it's all I know. It's probably all you know too. It's probably all that pretty much anyone here knows. But again, from what I've heard, from what I've read, to the best of my understanding, coming from people who do know, America is superior. MLB is the superior league with the superior talent, and America leads the world in the talent in MLB. The best players come over from other leagues and are no longer among the best players. I already named perfect examples... Ichiro and DiceK came over as probably top-3 hitter/pitcher in NPB, and fall drastically once they hit MLB. Nothing against Ichiro, but he's not as good compared to Americans as he is compared to Japanese. No Japanese are. No Koreans are. No Dominicans are. They're on top of the world in their leagues, they settle down when they come here. It's simply a matter of fact!

Quote:

---

Uhh? Where the hell is Cuba?

---

Oh no, I forgot one country...

Quote:

---

'everyone else' ? That's the thing, a lot of Americans just point out the fact that we have all the big names without doing any real research on any team before they declare themselves the best team.

---

I'm not going to sit around doing research on stuff which is practically unresearchable for someone with my resources. The best I can do is go by what is known.

Quote:

---

There's a strong possibility they did have the best team this WBC

---

Look at the team without trying to play devil's advocate and you can strike the "strong possibility" part out of that statement.

Quote:

---

, but the fact that you put such a huge gap over them and basically every team is a little funny.

---

Why??

Quote:

---

I'd like to hear you name 5 players from the Cuba team off the top of your head and what position they play. My guess is you can't do it.

---

My guess is that pretty much nobody, save MLB scouts, could do it. My guess is the little island nation would be producing far, far more defectors to MLB if there were any sort of American-rival talent there on the whole.

Quote:

---

Also, you keep referring to our league being the best. You fail to understand that it isn't the league you're going up against but the best players from each nation regardless of where they're playing.

---

And it just so happens that MLB has the greatest talent. Try to refute it as you will, but the depth of your argument against it is "You don't know about the other leagues," and a mystical and baseless assumption that there's equivalent talent in other leagues, when most people who ARE experts seem to rate even NPB (the best of the other leagues) as being not much higher than AAA for MLB.

Quote:

---

The Dominican and USA are far closer than you think they are.

---

Not really, but if you throw in the rest of Latin America, I'll say it's almost a dead heat.

Quote:

---

1B : Pujols (Best player in the game right now)

---

American.

Quote:

---

2B : Robinson Cano (not as good as Roberts or Utley but still good)

---

A medium tier 2B.

Quote:

---

SS : Hanley Ramirez (defense is questionable but everything makes up for it and is the best SS in the game in some minds)

---

Of course. But what about Rollins, Jeter, a bunch of other SS? You can name one Dominican that's at the top at one position, it doesn't mean the Dominican is better than America at that position.

Quote:

---

3B : Alex Rodriguez (On decline but still one of the bets)

---

American.

Quote:

---

OF : Nelson Cruz, Willy Taveras, Jose Guillen (Basically average players with some nice skills)

---

This doesn't help the argument that the Dominican is close to America, at all. There's at least 15 or 20 American outfielders that are more talented.

Quote:

---

I'm not gonna go in depth on pitching but they have some nice talent there.

---

Their pitching is a joke compared to America. Pitching is actually one place where America stands heads and shoulders above the rest of the world, and it's hardly arguable.

Quote:

---

So how is it that America seems to have such a huge gap over them?

---

Quite easily, if you'd take the time to consider all the American players at all the positions you just listed. Especially pitching.

Quote:

---

Even if America had better players in every position I can't imagine them being THAT big.

---

When I say "huge gap" I don't mean the Dominicans are a bunch of minor leaguers. Perhaps you misunderstood that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joe12Pack

Of course I'm going by major leaguers. Because it's all I know. It's probably all you know too. It's probably all that pretty much anyone here knows. But again, from what I've heard, from what I've read, to the best of my understanding, coming from people who do know, America is superior. MLB is the superior league with the superior talent, and America leads the world in the talent in MLB. The best players come over from other leagues and are no longer among the best players. I already named perfect examples... Ichiro and DiceK came over as probably top-3 hitter/pitcher in NPB, and fall drastically once they hit MLB. Nothing against Ichiro, but he's not as good compared to Americans as he is compared to Japanese. No Japanese are. No Koreans are. No Dominicans are. They're on top of the world in their leagues, they settle down when they come here. It's simply a matter of fact!

---

Sure they came over to the major leagues and are not considered to be the best anymore, but again the major leagues isn't the American Only Leagues. Take out all players born in other countries and the gap lessens by quite a bit.

Quote:

---

I'm not going to sit around doing research on stuff which is practically unresearchable for someone with my resources. The best I can do is go by what is known.

---

Which is ignorant.

Quote:

---

My guess is that pretty much nobody, save MLB scouts, could do it. My guess is the little island nation would be producing far, far more defectors to MLB if there were any sort of American-rival talent there on the whole.

---

Yes, because we all know the only reason players in other countries AREN'T playing here is because they don't have the talent and NOTHING ELSE. No language barrier, no wanting to live in your country you grew up in, NOTHING.:rolleyes:

Quote:

---

And it just so happens that MLB has the greatest talent. Try to refute it as you will, but the depth of your argument against it is "You don't know about the other leagues," and a mystical and baseless assumption that there's equivalent talent in other leagues, when most people who ARE experts seem to rate even NPB (the best of the other leagues) as being not much higher than AAA for MLB.

---

Again you keep comparing leagues which isn't what the WBC is about, it's the best talent. If you took the best prospects from the minors and put them all in a team I'm guessing they could win their fair share of games at the MLB level because the top talent from the minors is probably decent. Not saying other countries are minor league teams but just illustrating the point it's the best players and not the league.

Quote:

---

American.



American.

---

Sure they were both born here, but if they're going to play for the DR then I don't get what your point is? If the entire Canadian team was born here and played for the Canadian team then it becomes a moot point.

Quote:

---

This doesn't help the argument that the Dominican is close to America, at all. There's at least 15 or 20 American outfielders that are more talented.

---

I wasn't aware you can play 15-20 OF's in a game now. If the top 3 American outfielders are better than the top 3 from the Dominican then that's great (without any research and going off the top of my head they probably are), but it isn't a HUGE gap. Again, we're talking about the best on a team, not the nations leagues.

i'm short on time, so i'll add two comments on what i've read thus far;

1) funny how the WBC needs to be "fixed" and the main question regarding why was wondering why the Americans didn't win. Had they won would this thread have been started?

2) November is a terrible time, and you would see far far less american players in the tourney. The reason the play now primarily is because it replaces part of spring training. In november, you'll be extending their season. I don't believe most would go for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dickay

i'm short on time, so i'll add two comments on what i've read thus far;

1) funny how the WBC needs to be "fixed" and the main question regarding why was wondering why the Americans didn't win. Had they won would this thread have been started?

2) November is a terrible time, and you would see far far less american players in the tourney. The reason the play now primarily is because it replaces part of spring training. In november, you'll be extending their season. I don't believe most would go for it.

---

:eek:

I agree with Dickay

I don't think the WBC needs fixed. Improved-sure-everything can always be improved.

Though, this is a tough one. The way they are doing it now, is probably the best way.

If the US WANTS to win in the WBC, then they need to find players that will commit to the WBC and get ready to play in the WBC instead of using the WBC to get ready for the major league season.

Since the major league season is what pays them millions of dollars, there might not be a lot of players who want to do that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by filihok

:eek:

I agree with Dickay

I don't think the WBC needs fixed. Improved-sure-everything can always be improved.

Though, this is a tough one. The way they are doing it now, is probably the best way.

If the US WANTS to win in the WBC, then they need to find players that will commit to the WBC and get ready to play in the WBC instead of using the WBC to get ready for the major league season.

Since the major league season is what pays them millions of dollars, there might not be a lot of players who want to do that.

---

Its baseball in a small sample size. Not many will argue that top to bottom the US roster was the most talented. Over a season of play they would run away with a title. However, over a very short elimination series, anything is possible. I don't buy that these guys weren't trying or into it, its a cop out. I saw the WS like celebration after Wrights game winning hit.

Now sure, other nations are more "prepared" going into the WBC as they are in mid-season form. The talent on the US squad offsets that edge IMO and its not as if the US team players go to spring training out of shape. Most MLB players do not.

To me, the small sample size is the biggest reason the US lost. And I like the small do or die type tourney as its different. True, the best team doesn't always win. Thats life & thats baseball. Its still entertaining, and just because the US doesn't win, doesn't mean its broken.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dickay

Its baseball in a small sample size. Not many will argue that top to bottom the US roster was the most talented. Over a season of play they would run away with a title. However, over a very short elimination series, anything is possible. I don't buy that these guys weren't trying or into it, its a cop out. I saw the WS like celebration after Wrights game winning hit.

Now sure, other nations are more "prepared" going into the WBC as they are in mid-season form. The talent on the US squad offsets that edge IMO and its not as if the US team players go to spring training out of shape. Most MLB players do not.

To me, the small sample size is the biggest reason the US lost. And I like the small do or die type tourney as its different. True, the best team doesn't always win. Thats life & thats baseball. Its still entertaining, and just because the US doesn't win, doesn't mean its broken.

---

The thing is, though, especially with pitchers, and especially in a small sample size type of environment, players have to 'get their work in'. Pitchers have to pitch according to a schedule and not according to the situation.

Oswalt is in there to throw 85 pitches even if it is clear after 40 that he doesn't have it that day.

Jeter has to play shortstop because he has to get ready for the Yankee season and can't just DH

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by filihok

The thing is, though, especially with pitchers, and especially in a small sample size type of environment, players have to 'get their work in'. Pitchers have to pitch according to a schedule and not according to the situation.

Oswalt is in there to throw 85 pitches even if it is clear after 40 that he doesn't have it that day.

Jeter has to play shortstop because he has to get ready for the Yankee season and can't just DH

---

thats a fair point, and IMO;

1) I'd be fine if they kept that process...for the most part I view this as exhibition.

2) I'd be fine if they changed that process. They can allow teams to carry extra players so that they aren't overworking any bullpen arms, and Oswalt can get extra work in simulated games which I understand aren't as good as throwing 85 pitches live but if you're getting hammered its a fair trade off. Plus one could argue that the 40 he throws against WBC competition along with the addition 40 thrown after being taken out of the game in a simulated manner is worth equivalent to or even more than the 85 he'd throw in a spring training game that isn't taken nearly as seriously with players on a talent level less than what he's facing in the WBC.

As for Jeter...and playing in the field. I don't believe it takes alot to get "season ready" to play the field position. I've heard pros say as much, after a few innings in the field they are as ready as they're going to be. They've been there before, and Jeter has plenty of time, he doesn't need a full game everyday in the field.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 200tang

Sure they came over to the major leagues and are not considered to be the best anymore, but again the major leagues isn't the American Only Leagues. Take out all players born in other countries and the gap lessens by quite a bit.

---

The point is, MLB is still majority American, and even many of these "foreign" players are, in fact, American. The point is, when mixed in with Americans and Dominicans, very few Japanese (successful in the NPB) can succeed. Practically no Koreans can succeed.

Quote:

---

Which is ignorant.

---

Not really, because let's face it, neither you nor I are going to really delve into the finer points of KBO or Dutch baseball, and neither of us have the resources to do so properly. But we're going to discuss it either way. You're claiming Asian baseball is more or less on par with American baseball, probably without having done any more research than I have.

You don't have to be a full-on expert to discuss a topic.

Quote:

---

Yes, because we all know the only reason players in other countries AREN'T playing here is because they don't have the talent and NOTHING ELSE. No language barrier, no wanting to live in your country you grew up in, NOTHING.:rolleyes:

---

The Dominicans sure seem to have manned up and gotten over those problems.

Also, "language barrier" for a Spanish speaker in MLB? Or even in America, period? Taking a poor life in a third world country over a rich life in a leading nation where you can give back to your old country and still live their half the year? Give me a break. Dude, seriously, come on...

Quote:

---

Again you keep comparing leagues which isn't what the WBC is about, it's the best talent. If you took the best prospects from the minors and put them all in a team I'm guessing they could win their fair share of games at the MLB level because the top talent from the minors is probably decent. Not saying other countries are minor league teams but just illustrating the point it's the best players and not the league.

---

That was a really poor and pointless analogy.

I'm comparing leagues because MLB is majority American, and even if you remove the foreign BORN players, you could more than fill up a league the size of the NPB with MLB-quality teams. I'm comparing leagues because, hey, guess what, the Japanese team happens to be made up of 90% NPB players, and the Korean team happens to be made up of 99% KBO players, and the American team was made up of 100% MLB players.

Quote:

---

I wasn't aware you can play 15-20 OF's in a game now.

---

You know what I meant.

Quote:

---

If the top 3 American outfielders are better than the top 3 from the Dominican then that's great (without any research and going off the top of my head they probably are), but it isn't a HUGE gap. Again, we're talking about the best on a team, not the nations leagues.

---

You seriously can't think of 3 American outfielders better than the Dominican outfield from the WBC?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dickay

i'm short on time, so i'll add two comments on what i've read thus far;

1) funny how the WBC needs to be "fixed" and the main question regarding why was wondering why the Americans didn't win. Had they won would this thread have been started?

---

I'd like to refer you to the title of the thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joe12Pack

I'd like to refer you to the title of the thread.

---

:D

Nice. Short, to the point, and correct.


If I were in charge (LOL, well, you did ask for thoughts :D), I would do two things that I think would help America's approach.

1) I would keep the double elimination format but would trash the last game in rounds 1 and 2 that were played only to determine seeding. Seeding can be determined in the first 2 games of each round. The two winners of the first game play, and the winner not only automatically advances (as is the case in this years), but the winner is the Pool champ. Then the second team advancing is determined just like this years. This eliminates one extra day in the first two rounds, shortening the event by two days.

2) I would start spring training a week early like this year, BUT, I would play the WBC the very LAST week of spring training, the week before the regular MLB season starts. The WBC championship game could be on Saturday afternoon (WOW, imagine that, baseball played under the SUN!), leaving travel time for players to get to opening day on MONDAY (Sorry ESPN Sunday night baseball, you can cover the WBC and every 4 years you lose one Sunday night game, deal with it.).

There. Shortened, the tourney could start one Thursday and be over the next Saturday. Round 1 Thurs/Fri/Sat, Round 2 Mon/Tue/Wed, Semis Friday, Championship Saturday. Or move it all up one day. Played at the end of spring training rather than the beginning means players are in better shape.

Done.

Gnight.

:D

Quote:

---

I'd like to refer you to the title of the thread.

---

I'd like to refer you to the first paragraph of this thread;

Quote:

---

The Latin American teams were, of course, loaded with talent, but the American squad was clearly the best overall on paper. Spectacular hitting, very good infield defense, top quality starting pitching, and a tremendous and deep bullpen.

---

and the first sentence of the second paragraph;

Quote:

---

So what happened?

---

So again, if team USA had won, would this whole thread have been started? Personally, even in losing I don't think anything needs to be fixed.

While I agree with alot of what you're posting in reference to Americas talent, I don't agree that them not winning the tourney had to do with anything more than just pure small sample size anyone can beat anyone on any given sunday.

Quote:

---

Nice. Short, to the point, and correct.

---

OFG reaching for something to disagree with me on? There's a shocker. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

BUT, I would play the WBC the very LAST week of spring training, the week before the regular MLB season starts.

---

I don't recall what show it was, but about a week ago this was mentioned on WEEI with Larry Lucchino (him or Henry, I really didn't get very involved in the dialog). If I recall correctly Lucchino had stated this had been discussed and in general the overwhelming majority of owners were adament about having their complete rosters for that final week at the end of spring training. While he said he wouldn't speak for them individually, the Red Sox would not go for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dickay

OFG reaching for something to disagree with me on? There's a shocker. :rolleyes:

---

Not having a clue what the words "Fixing America's WBC Approach" mean. Now there's a shocker. :rolleyes:

I think it's pretty obvious if the American's had won the WBC, then their approach wouldn't need fixing, yes???

I mean, "Fixing the Phillies Approach To MLB" would be a lot less likely thread to see this year then say, "Fixing the Nationals Approach to MLB."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

Not having a clue what the words "Fixing America's WBC Approach" mean. Now there's a shocker. :rolleyes:

---

Not reading and grasping simple concepts. Now there's a shocker. :rolleyes:

We can go on all day. Its pretty clear from his first two paragraphs, he was questioning why USA lost and ideas to "fix their approach". So again, if they had won, would their approach have been broken. Cmon now, even an old fat guy can grasp that.

Good points, dickay, especially regarding sample size (which I gave a nod to in the first post). I think it was a little more than just that though, and I think it was fairly obvious that America had some weaknesses.

Before the tournament, America looked better, but it became apparent in the game against Japan, and in some of the games prior, that America had overall poor defense, poor coaching, didn't use their pitching staff that well, and was handcuffed by the MLB season. These are things that weren't really on paper beforehand.

I'm actually thinking we should approach the thing more like the Japanese and Koreans do. Be prepared, take it more seriously, put our best foot forward, and don't treat it like a Cactus League game or some kind of novelty joke game.

Call me crazy, but I'm pissed that my country, the same country that made baseball what it is and clearly has owned the sport and has arguably the greatest talent in the world (I feel it's obvious, especially in terms of pitching, but I'll throw a bone to the anti-American sentiment) was shown up by a team that I know is made up of inferior talent.

Could America have won in spite of what they did? Who knows. Moot point, because it didn't happen. Would this thread exist if they had won? Another moot point, because it didn't happen.

Although I'm sure I'd still be more than vocal about things like Adam Dunn's poor defense and lack of an all-around game, the use of pitching, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dickay

So again, if they had won, would their approach have been broken.

---

Whadda you think?

Come on now, even a complete imbecile can get this one.

And you're right we can go on all day long.

Bring it.