Official 2009 Toronto Blue Jays Thread

I know there are a few other Jays fans on here, plus I know other will take an interest.

Here's their projected roster for starters:

SP-Roy Halladay
SP-Jesse Litsch
SP-David Purcey (L)
SP-???
SP-???

On the cusp:
RHP Casey Janssen
RHP Scott Richmond
RHP Matt Clement
LHP Brad Mills
LHP Ricky Romero

As long as Janssen continues to pitch decently and doesn't suffer any setbacks he should have a rotation job locked up. Cito has said that Clement is on the outside looking in so it seems that the 5th starter's job is Richmond's to lose. Youngster Brad Mills has pitched well so far this spring though, so don't be surprised if he breaks camp with the big club. Barring injuries or a few spectacular outings, Romero will start the year with Triple-A Las Vegas.

CL-BJ Ryan (L)
SU-Scott Downs (L)
SU-Brandon League
SR-Jesse Carlson (L)
MR-???
MR-???
LR-Brian Tallet (L)

On the cusp:
RHP Casey Janssen
RHP Jeremy Accardo
RHP Jason Frasor
RHP Brian Wolfe
RHP Shawn Camp

Cito has already said that the four lefties are the only locks in the pen. League's job should be safe as well. If starting does not work out for Janssen, he has a spot locked up in the pen. Otherwise, there are 2 spots to hand out to 4 deserving righties. Accardo and Frasor would be the favorites, especially with Wolfe having an injury scare last week. I believe Wolfe also has an option left, which doesn't help his cause. If JP decides to trade one, Accardo and Frasor have the most value and would be the first to be sent packing.

C-Rod Barajas
1B-Lyle Overbay (L)
2B-Aaron Hill
3B-Scott Rolen
SS-Marco Scutaro
LF-Adam Lind (L)
CF-Vernon Wells
RF-Alex Rios
DH-Travis Snider (L)

Bench:
C/1B Michael Barrett
???
???
???

On the cusp:
1B/LF Kevin Millar
SS/IF John McDonald
UT Joe Inglett (L)
UT Jose Bautista
OF Jason Lane

In recent years the Jays have almost always carried 4 bench players, and I don't expect that to change this year. Barrett is a shoe-in as backup catcher, but it remains to be seen if he'll see extra at bats at 1st base and DH against lefties. All indicators point to Bautista making the team. I don't neccessarily agree with this, but whatever. I would like to see McDonald and Inglett be the other two bench players, but they could very well drop one and take Lane (who's having a great spring) or Millar to play against lefties.

I past years I've been optimistic about the Jays chances (mostly due to their rotation) but with a much worse rotation than last year, I don't have high hopes for this year's club.

I like the Jays, they are cool. I think Bautista, Inglett, and Millar should be on the bench. They all know multible positions, and have decent bats.

I think Accardo will make the team before Frasor.. Considering both Gibbons and Cito didn't use Frasor unless in a blowout situation, or in a place where there was no pressure..
I'd rather see Clement make the team over Richmond.. Haven't been all that impressed with what I've seen of Richmond..

I thought they'd basically said already that Downs is definitely moving in to the rotation this year?

I think once Spring Training started they decided Downs is better used in the pen.. I mean either him or Tallet can spot start.. I wouldn't want them to take from their strength to possibly make no impact in the rotation..

2006-2008: Great hopes...no playoffs.

2009: Not much hope...Playoffs?!

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Originally Posted by actionjackson

2006-2008: Great hopes...no playoffs.

2009: Not much hope...Playoffs?!

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More likely 5th than 1st I think. Sorry :(

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Originally Posted by filihok

More likely 5th than 1st I think. Sorry :(

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Hey, you don't have to tell me that, but I'm gonna go with that great sage Joaquin Andujar (because reality is too painful) on this one and say: "Youneverknow." ;)

If the Jays had a decent marketing team, they could have an entire campaign devoted to "defeating" the Baltimore Orioles to stay out of last place this season.

Toronto has a baseball team?

:rolleyes:

Janssen had a set-back and won't be ready to pitch in the bigs (atleast as a starter) by opening day. Looks like Richmond and Mills could be the 4,5 guys. (Mills only has 6 starts above A ball. Yikes!)

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Originally Posted by koolzach1

Toronto has a baseball team?

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Toronto has a rich baseball history too. 12 HOFers (excluding ones that played for the Jays) spent time here either on the way up or on the way down. Maybe you recognize some of them: Sparky Anderson, Ed Barrow, Dan Brouthers, Hugh Duffy, Charlie Gehringer, Burleigh Grimes, Carl Hubbell, "Wee" Willie Keeler, Joe Kelley, Ralph Kiner, Nap Lajoie, and Heinie Manush. Non-HOFers include Buck Freeman, Reggie Smith and Urban Shocker. Some 19 year old punk named Babe Ruth (what kind of a name is that?) hit the first professional homerun of his career here. Still in Canada, but not Toronto, before his cleats ever touched the turf at Ebbets Field, Jackie Robinson debuted up here in Montreal with the Royals.

It's not enough that I have to put up with a sports media that's 95% hockey, which has made me hate a game I used to love, but then I have to listen to the uninformed that think that all Canadians do is play hockey, watch hockey, eat backbacon drizzled in maple syrup and wash it down with beer. Baseball fandom may not be as widespread as it is in your country, but those that are fans are huge fans and know the game inside out because we've had to overcome the hockey, hockey, hockey, hockey, hockey that's incessantly shoved down our throats.

So endeth the rant. Not necessarily all directed at you koolzach1 but at anyone who spreads these ridiculous stereotypes. You just provided the trigger. Sensitive? Yep, no denying it. Also fed up with these stupid Canadianisms. ;)

I'll say it right now...our beer sucks just as hard as American swill does, and I HATE maple syrup.

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Originally Posted by actionjackson

Toronto has a rich baseball history too. 12 HOFers (excluding ones that played for the Jays) spent time here either on the way up or on the way down. Maybe you recognize some of them: Sparky Anderson, Ed Barrow, Dan Brouthers, Hugh Duffy, Charlie Gehringer, Burleigh Grimes, Carl Hubbell, "Wee" Willie Keeler, Joe Kelley, Ralph Kiner, Nap Lajoie, and Heinie Manush. Non-HOFers include Buck Freeman, Reggie Smith and Urban Shocker. Some 19 year old punk named Babe Ruth (what kind of a name is that?) hit the first professional homerun of his career here. Still in Canada, but not Toronto, before his cleats ever touched the turf at Ebbets Field, Jackie Robinson debuted up here in Montreal with the Royals.

It's not enough that I have to put up with a sports media that's 95% hockey, which has made me hate a game I used to love, but then I have to listen to the uninformed that think that all Canadians do is play hockey, watch hockey, eat backbacon drizzled in maple syrup and wash it down with beer. Baseball fandom may not be as widespread as it is in your country, but those that are fans are huge fans and know the game inside out because we've had to overcome the hockey, hockey, hockey, hockey, hockey that's incessantly shoved down our throats.

So endeth the rant. Not necessarily all directed at you koolzach1 but at anyone who spreads these ridiculous stereotypes. You just provided the trigger. Sensitive? Yep, no denying it. Also fed up with these stupid Canadianisms. ;)

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Lol, wow, I am glad that you have a strong passion for baseball, but......

I wasn't talking about how baseball isn't relevant up in Canada. I was just kidding about how the Toronto Blue Jays have been irrelevant for quite some time. They weren't bad last year, it was mostly just a poke at them because they haven't made any big moves for awhile... or even semi-big moves.

Oh, and don't think that I don't know anything about Canada... I wacthed the movie "Canadian Bacon." :p

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Originally Posted by actionjackson

Toronto has a rich baseball history too. 12 HOFers (excluding ones that played for the Jays) spent time here either on the way up or on the way down. Maybe you recognize some of them: Sparky Anderson, Ed Barrow, Dan Brouthers, Hugh Duffy, Charlie Gehringer, Burleigh Grimes, Carl Hubbell, "Wee" Willie Keeler, Joe Kelley, Ralph Kiner, Nap Lajoie, and Heinie Manush. Non-HOFers include Buck Freeman, Reggie Smith and Urban Shocker. Some 19 year old punk named Babe Ruth (what kind of a name is that?) hit the first professional homerun of his career here. Still in Canada, but not Toronto, before his cleats ever touched the turf at Ebbets Field, Jackie Robinson debuted up here in Montreal with the Royals.

It's not enough that I have to put up with a sports media that's 95% hockey, which has made me hate a game I used to love, but then I have to listen to the uninformed that think that all Canadians do is play hockey, watch hockey, eat backbacon drizzled in maple syrup and wash it down with beer. Baseball fandom may not be as widespread as it is in your country, but those that are fans are huge fans and know the game inside out because we've had to overcome the hockey, hockey, hockey, hockey, hockey that's incessantly shoved down our throats.

So endeth the rant. Not necessarily all directed at you koolzach1 but at anyone who spreads these ridiculous stereotypes. You just provided the trigger. Sensitive? Yep, no denying it. Also fed up with these stupid Canadianisms. ;)

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Eh?

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Originally Posted by actionjackson

Also fed up with these stupid Canadianisms. ;)

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Eh?....now wot Canajunisms would they be?

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Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies

Eh?

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Good onya, RSR...you pipped me by five minutes!::(

It sucks that you guys were basically a top 10 and possibly a top 5 team last year, but because you were in the AL East it pretty much equaled fail :(

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Originally Posted by Arctic Blast

I'll say it right now...our beer sucks just as hard as American swill does, and I HATE maple syrup.

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Not micro-breweries, but then again there are probably great micro-breweries in the States too. :D

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Originally Posted by koolzach1

Lol, wow, I am glad that you have a strong passion for baseball, but......
I wasn't talking about how baseball isn't relevant up in Canada. I was just kidding about how the Toronto Blue Jays have been irrelevant for quite some time. They weren't bad last year, it was mostly just a poke at them because they haven't made any big moves for awhile... or even semi-big moves.

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Typical Yankee fan shiite. This team can't just walk out there and buy replacements for Shaun Marcum, Dustin McGowan, Casey Janssen, a shortstop, a first baseman etc etc etc. I'm so sorry we can't all be like you your royal Yankeeness. We have to draft and develop our players and make judicious trades and sign the occasional free agent like 90% of the rest of MLB teams, some of whom can't even do the free agent thing. It was decided that payroll would be reduced from about $100 million to $80 million, partly due to the exchange rate which has changed drastically in the past year. Somewhat difficult to make big splashes and slash payroll, unless of course $80 million worth of payroll magically disappears from your roster in one offseason. ;)

As for this notion that they haven't made any big moves for awhile, that's a load of bunk unless you're looking for big moves on a Yankee/Red Sox scale. They made big moves when they could (Burnett, Ryan, Glaus, Frank Thomas, Rolen, Overbay [trade, not the subsequent 4 year deal]) using clauses and bonuses to keep the overall contract sizes from getting too large and scaled back when they had to. Did all of these work? Hell no, do any team's? Some of the players they re-upped with (Halladay, Downs, Wells, Rios, Hill) turned out OK as well.

As far as I'm concerned J.P. Ricciardi has been a push as a GM, but that's not going to cut it in this division with the behemoths and the exuberant Rays, not to mention the improving Orioles. It appears in the last year or so he's kind of thrown his hands up in frustration or resignation, which is understandable but not something you want to see from your GM in a division like this. He appears to be operating on cruise control and he's definitely getting more punchy with media and fans as his various and sundry recent PR gaffes demonstrate. If you're looking for a big move koolzach1, it appears that it's being put on hold until he gets canned. I wouldn't look for any big splashy moves after that either as I would hope as a fan that whoever succeeds him will start with the minor league system and build from the ground up. It's the only way to compete in the East and it's the only way to get back to being one of the best expansion franchises in the history of the game.

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Originally Posted by actionjackson

Not micro-breweries, but then again there are probably great micro-breweries in the States too. :D

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Agreed. Also, agreed with your response to koolzach. :D

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Originally Posted by actionjackson

Typical Yankee fan shiite. This team can't just walk out there and buy replacements for Shaun Marcum, Dustin McGowan, Casey Janssen, a shortstop, a first baseman etc etc etc. I'm so sorry we can't all be like you your royal Yankeeness. We have to draft and develop our players and make judicious trades and sign the occasional free agent like 90% of the rest of MLB teams, some of whom can't even do the free agent thing. It was decided that payroll would be reduced from about $100 million to $80 million, partly due to the exchange rate which has changed drastically in the past year. Somewhat difficult to make big splashes and slash payroll, unless of course $80 million worth of payroll magically disappears from your roster in one offseason. ;)

As for this notion that they haven't made any big moves for awhile, that's a load of bunk unless you're looking for big moves on a Yankee/Red Sox scale. They made big moves when they could (Burnett, Ryan, Glaus, Frank Thomas, Rolen, Overbay [trade, not the subsequent 4 year deal]) using clauses and bonuses to keep the overall contract sizes from getting too large and scaled back when they had to. Did all of these work? Hell no, do any team's? Some of the players they re-upped with (Halladay, Downs, Wells, Rios, Hill) turned out OK as well.

As far as I'm concerned J.P. Ricciardi has been a push as a GM, but that's not going to cut it in this division with the behemoths and the exuberant Rays, not to mention the improving Orioles. It appears in the last year or so he's kind of thrown his hands up in frustration or resignation, which is understandable but not something you want to see from your GM in a division like this. He appears to be operating on cruise control and he's definitely getting more punchy with media and fans as his various and sundry recent PR gaffes demonstrate. If you're looking for a big move koolzach1, it appears that it's being put on hold until he gets canned. I wouldn't look for any big splashy moves after that either as I would hope as a fan that whoever succeeds him will start with the minor league system and build from the ground up. It's the only way to compete in the East and it's the only way to get back to being one of the best expansion franchises in the history of the game.

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Completely agree, especially about the "JP should be fired" part.

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Originally Posted by actionjackson

Typical Yankee fan shiite. This team can't just walk out there and buy replacements for Shaun Marcum, Dustin McGowan, Casey Janssen, a shortstop, a first baseman etc etc etc. I'm so sorry we can't all be like you your royal Yankeeness. We have to draft and develop our players and make judicious trades and sign the occasional free agent like 90% of the rest of MLB teams, some of whom can't even do the free agent thing. It was decided that payroll would be reduced from about $100 million to $80 million, partly due to the exchange rate which has changed drastically in the past year. Somewhat difficult to make big splashes and slash payroll, unless of course $80 million worth of payroll magically disappears from your roster in one offseason. ;)

As for this notion that they haven't made any big moves for awhile, that's a load of bunk unless you're looking for big moves on a Yankee/Red Sox scale. They made big moves when they could (Burnett, Ryan, Glaus, Frank Thomas, Rolen, Overbay [trade, not the subsequent 4 year deal]) using clauses and bonuses to keep the overall contract sizes from getting too large and scaled back when they had to. Did all of these work? Hell no, do any team's? Some of the players they re-upped with (Halladay, Downs, Wells, Rios, Hill) turned out OK as well.

As far as I'm concerned J.P. Ricciardi has been a push as a GM, but that's not going to cut it in this division with the behemoths and the exuberant Rays, not to mention the improving Orioles. It appears in the last year or so he's kind of thrown his hands up in frustration or resignation, which is understandable but not something you want to see from your GM in a division like this. He appears to be operating on cruise control and he's definitely getting more punchy with media and fans as his various and sundry recent PR gaffes demonstrate. If you're looking for a big move koolzach1, it appears that it's being put on hold until he gets canned. I wouldn't look for any big splashy moves after that either as I would hope as a fan that whoever succeeds him will start with the minor league system and build from the ground up. It's the only way to compete in the East and it's the only way to get back to being one of the best expansion franchises in the history of the game.

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Me thinks that you are being a little too defensive....

I definitely am not gonna apologize or take back what I said, though... Toronto is irrelevant in baseball right now. You say that the Jays cannot just go out and "buy" another pitcher to replace your injured ones... Well, isn't Toronto a really large market? IMO, you should be able to go out and at least get some innings eaters... Maybe make a splash and pursue Perez/Pedro. Maybe move Hill back to SS and put Grudz or Durham at 2B... just a little constructive criticism. Plus, I wouldn't really say that Thomas, Rolen, or Overbay were exactly big moves. They were decent moves, but nothing major. Also, your GM has raped the team by signing bad contracts like Overbay, and Wells.

Anyways, good luck in building from the farm system, when you're consistently average/above average and getting picks in the mid/late first round.

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Originally Posted by koolzach1

Me thinks that you are being a little too defensive....

I definitely am not gonna apologize or take back what I said, though... Toronto is irrelevant in baseball right now. You say that the Jays cannot just go out and "buy" another pitcher to replace your injured ones... Well, isn't Toronto a really large market?

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Sure, Toronto has a big population, but not nearly as many baseball fans as New York and most other american cities.

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IMO, you should be able to go out and at least get some innings eaters... Maybe make a splash and pursue Perez/Pedro. Maybe move Hill back to SS and put Grudz or Durham at 2B... just a little constructive criticism.

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I wouldn't exactly call Perez or Pedro a splash. And what are Grudzelanek and/or Durham going to do that Marco Scutaro can't? And, where do you get off critizising fans for what our GM is doing?

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Plus, I wouldn't really say that Thomas, Rolen, or Overbay were exactly big moves. They were decent moves, but nothing major. Also, your GM has raped the team by signing bad contracts like Overbay, and Wells.

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Agreed. But you can't say Cashman hasn't made any bad signings. And, our point is that Overbay, Thomas and Rolen were the biggest moves we could make within our budget. If the Jays make a mistake, they can't just shrug it off, they have to pay for it. Mistakes come with consequences up here.

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Anyways, good luck in building from the farm system, when you're consistently average/above average and getting picks in the mid/late first round.

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Any competent GM/front office should be able to build a farm without having high picks. In baseball more than any other sport, you can find gems not just further down in the 1st round, but deep in the draft.

And in other news, the Jays will likely sign Shawn Hill once he clears release waivers. A good pick up i think.

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Originally Posted by gosensgo101

Sure, Toronto has a big population, but not nearly as many baseball fans as New York and most other american cities.



I wouldn't exactly call Perez or Pedro a splash. And what are Grudzelanek and/or Durham going to do that Marco Scutaro can't? And, where do you get off critizising fans for what our GM is doing?



Agreed. But you can't say Cashman hasn't made any bad signings. And, our point is that Overbay, Thomas and Rolen were the biggest moves we could make within our budget. If the Jays make a mistake, they can't just shrug it off, they have to pay for it. Mistakes come with consequences up here.



Any competent GM/front office should be able to build a farm without having high picks. In baseball more than any other sport, you can find gems not just further down in the 1st round, but deep in the draft.

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Perez and Pedro wouldn't be big splashes, but they would definitely be upgrades over what you currently have... and I am not criticizing the fans for their crappy GM. Though, maybe fans should start coming to games more often. Their must not be very many competent GM's then... because most teams that have a top farm system have had very good picks to work with. Notice how the top tier teams don't always have great farm systems.

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Originally Posted by koolzach1

Perez and Pedro wouldn't be big splashes, but they would definitely be upgrades over what you currently have... and I am not criticizing the fans for their crappy GM. Though, maybe fans should start coming to games more often. Their must not be very many competent GM's then... because most teams that have a top farm system have had very good picks to work with. Notice how the top tier teams don't always have great farm systems.

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The Athletics went from a consensus bottom 5 farm system the last 3 years or so up to a consensus top 3 farm system...and it wasn't by drafting. Same with Texas. Also, for the last few years, the Red Sox had a consensus top 5/10 farm system, and they, obviously, haven't had many good picks to work with. Your Yankees, also, in 2007 and 2008, were a highly rated farm system.

And on the flipside, the Royals (until recently) and the Pirates have long been staples at the bottom of farm system rankings, while also being staples at the top of the draft.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

The Athletics went from a consensus bottom 5 farm system the last 3 years or so up to a consensus top 3 farm system...and it wasn't by drafting. Same with Texas. Also, for the last few years, the Red Sox had a consensus top 5/10 farm system, and they, obviously, haven't had many good picks to work with. Your Yankees, also, in 2007 and 2008, were a highly rated farm system.

And on the flipside, the Royals (until recently) and the Pirates have long been staples at the bottom of farm system rankings, while also being staples at the top of the draft.

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It all relates to the resources a team has and puts towards scouting and development.

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Originally Posted by koolzach1

Perez and Pedro wouldn't be big splashes, but they would definitely be upgrades over what you currently have... and I am not criticizing the fans for their crappy GM. Though, maybe fans should start coming to games more often. Their must not be very many competent GM's then... because most teams that have a top farm system have had very good picks to work with. Notice how the top tier teams don't always have great farm systems.

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Okay, WHY would fans start showing up in droves?

"Oh, our team, which has been average to above average for the past 15 years, looks like an absolute mound of crap this year...let's get tickets!"

If I was in a major league town and had tickets, but year after year after year the team didn't progress at all, and then basically fell apart, I sure as Hell wouldn't buy tickets.

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Originally Posted by koolzach1

Me thinks that you are being a little too defensive....

I definitely am not gonna apologize or take back what I said, though... Toronto is irrelevant in baseball right now. You say that the Jays cannot just go out and "buy" another pitcher to replace your injured ones... Well, isn't Toronto a really large market? IMO, you should be able to go out and at least get some innings eaters... Maybe make a splash and pursue Perez/Pedro. Maybe move Hill back to SS and put Grudz or Durham at 2B... just a little constructive criticism. Plus, I wouldn't really say that Thomas, Rolen, or Overbay were exactly big moves. They were decent moves, but nothing major. Also, your GM has raped the team by signing bad contracts like Overbay, and Wells.

Anyways, good luck in building from the farm system, when you're consistently average/above average and getting picks in the mid/late first round.

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It's not defensive to tell you your analysis is flawed, and I'm certainly not looking for an apology because I understand how difficult it must be for a Yankee fan to be forced to look at things as 90% of the teams in this league do. "Wait, you mean we can't buy our way out of this and then buy our way out of any mistakes that we buy this offseason. Oh crap, we're screwed." Your analysis is flawed because you're looking through your "Pinstriped Shades" at how to help the Jays out of the mess they're in by signing old, broken down pitchers who would make a "kerplunk" (as in deadweight) noise rather than a "splash" noise (Martinez is 37 and gave up 19 HR in pitcher friendly Shea Stadium last year in a little over 100 IP. Which Perez are you referring to? Because there aren't any Perezes in the list of remaining free agents at ESPN.com) and taking a 2B who missed the last two-thirds of last season with post-concussion syndrome and asking him to move back to a position that used to be his primary position, but that he hasn't played with any regularity since 2004. He has all of 79 MLB games of well below averageness at SS and has turned into a very good 2B. I understand that to the fantasy player and even us Mogulers that they're all chess pieces, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to ask that of Hill when he's coming off a possible career-ending injury don't you? As for 39 year old Grudzy and 37 year old Durham, I think the combination of moving Hill to a position that he hasn't been much good at Major Leagueically speaking and bringing in an aging, declining 2B is not all that appealing, and might even qualify as dumb.

There's a reason this team has yet to sign a major free agent this offseason. When last season's contracts came off the books and the approximate raises due to the players on the '09 roster were tabulated the total was around $80 million. J.P. was told by the board that payroll was not to go above $80 million. I believe they could go up to $120 million if they wanted to, but I neither have access to the budget, nor the power to change it. So, trade a big ticket player you say? Do you see any movable contracts (yes J.P. handcuffed the team here: on that we can agree. ;) ) here that wouldn't require including a highly touted prospect, which are already in short supply? And prospects do have more currency to a team constituted as the Jays currently are. The only two I can possibly see are B.J. Ryan and Alex Rios. Blow the whole thing up and trade Halladay? (stop drooling, he ain't goin' nowhere for the moment :p ) I really don't want to put that heavy a responsibility in the hands of a GM who appears to have been coasting the last year or so. I'd rather let the new guy decide on the new direction of the team and that kind of decision is a franchise course altering decision that requires plenty of deliberation.

So, J.P. went and did something this offseason that he has demonstrated a great aptitude for since becoming a GM in 2001-2002. He went dumpster diving. He came up with some "interesting" finds including failed 2004 1st overall pick SS Matt Bush as a pitcher and injury riddled pitcher Adam Loewen as a 1B/OF. Well, Bush does have a 16/2 K/BB ratio in 7.2 IP in the low minors. That's good right? ;) As for Loewen, he has all of 2 PA, both in the Majors since being drafted in the 2002 draft. That's eons in baseball time. I wish him all the best, but the odds are rather long that he'll ever work his way back up to the show as a hitter. It looks like with the signing of Shawn Hill, that J.P. is desperately trying to play the Canadian card. Good luck with that. ;) Matt Clement, Kevin Millar and other free agents round out this year's "throw the pasta against the wall and see what sticks" crew.

Irrelevant? :confused: Unbalanced I will give you. All pitching and defense with very little in the way of offense I will give you. Largely ignored by the U.S. media and broadcasters because they can't make a dime of advertising off them I will give you, but not irrelevant. The 2009 version has yet to play a game, so I won't stick that label on them yet. The most recent version had the best combination of pitching and defence that the game has seen in a long time, but the team was constantly plagued by its inability to produce offensively. At all. Ask the Boston Red Sox (players not fans) if they think the Jays are irrelevant. Head on over to sonsofsamhorn.com and see what they think of the Jays. Bring "ear plugs" if you're sensitive though 'cause those guys swear like drunken sailors. ;)

Is the Jays' starting rotation in big trouble this year? Oh God yeah, but they still have most of 2008's #1 MLB bullpen intact. They'll probably be worn out by the end of May, but at least they can take it easy on the days Doc pitches. I hope Travis Snyder is able to 1) stick in the majors and 2) do well because it'll give us (the 15 to 20,000 hardcore fans, not the 30,000 others who will sit back and wait for a "winner" or who showed up when the Dome opened because it was the "place to be") motivation to show up on non-Doc days. I also hope the Maple Leafs don't make the playoffs, although many puckheads will stay home to watch playoff hockey of any kind and always have.

As for the farm system comment. :confused: The baseball draft is an extreme crapshoot. Obviously better scouting and development would help. The best news of the offseason was delivered by interim president Paul Beeston when he said starting now the team will look at paying "over slot" bonuses for draftees. Hallefreakinluia, about freakin time. I doubt they'll go too much over slot, but it's a start. Other threads on this very forum are discussing the phenomenon of more and more excellent amateur players falling in the draft due to bonus demands. Given that trend and the fact that you don't have a clue where these guys will be 5 years after they're drafted, how exactly is it that draft position has much if any impact on improving a team's farm system. :confused: The farm system can also be improved with trades, it's not only about draft position.

Finally J.P. Ricciardi = average, mid-range, mediocre GM, not crappy GM. For crappy GM see Bavasi, Bill; Littlefield, Doug; Bowden, Jim; Baird, Allard. Average, mid-range, mediocre GM = not good enough for the AL East. His strengths are dumpster diving, pitching and defense. If you look at his transactions he probably comes out about even. Recent drafting has appeared to be better (can't know until we see the finished products) since he's moved towards a more balanced high school/college approach rather than a college, college, college, and hey do you know if there are any more college players out there (?) approach. Weaknesses: offense, finding a f***n SS for the love of God, contract extensions with his own players and how can any Blue Jay fan forget this: public relations. Were I an MLB GM and he was fired, I'd hire him in a heartbeat and put him in charge of finding reclamation projects and I'd want his opinion on pitching and defensive ability, but I'd tell him to STFU regarding anything else. I'd probably also tell him his employment was conditional on him never, ever, ever talking to any media of any kind whatsoever and that doing so would result in an immediate dismissal. Whether his ego would be able to handle all this after having had a taste of being the man with the final say is extremely debatable. Whoa! This has turned into a Tolstoy or a Joyce type post. Sorry about that folks! :D

Didn't actionjackson mention at one point that he and koolzach1 are cousins? :) :p

Definitely a Tolstoy esque post :D. You must have neared the Word count limit!

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Didn't actionjackson mention at one point that he and koolzach1 are cousins? :) :p

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No, he and Kenny1123 or whatever

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Originally Posted by actionjackson

Sorry about that folks! :D

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No way. That was awesome!!!

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Didn't actionjackson mention at one point that he and koolzach1 are cousins? :) :p

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That's kenny1234. I'm afraid I'd have to disown any family member who was a Yankee fan. ;) :) :D

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Originally Posted by Arctic Blast

Okay, WHY would fans start showing up in droves?

"Oh, our team, which has been average to above average for the past 15 years, looks like an absolute mound of crap this year...let's get tickets!"

If I was in a major league town and had tickets, but year after year after year the team didn't progress at all, and then basically fell apart, I sure as Hell wouldn't buy tickets.

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Fairly simple logic there, chief.

Fans show up to the games, Toronto gets more financial resources to work with.

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Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies

No, he and Kenny1123 or whatever

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Who in the **** is Kenny1123? :confused:

It looks like Matt Clement put himself out of a rotation spot.

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Originally Posted by koolzach1

Fairly simple logic there, chief.

Fans show up to the games, Toronto gets more financial resources to work with.

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Thats a lousy incentive to go to a ballgame. How about "build a good team and I'll show up."