Organizational Rankings

They have their current best pitcher, James Shields, locked up through 2014, hey have their second best pitcher, Scott Kazmir, through 2012, and Matt Garza through 2013. They have their top prospect who very well may be their best pitcher come the end of the 2009 season, David Price, through at least 2014. That's 4 top-of-the-rotation starters (or with the potential to be) locked up together for at least the next 4 years. Then they also have Andy Sonnanstine, Wade Davis, Jacob McGee, Jeff Niemann, Matt Moore, Nick Barnese, and Jeremy Hellickson, all with mid-rotation potential or better. All of these pitchers are under team control through at least 2012.

They've demonstrated the ability to assemble a good bullpen on the cheap, finding Grant Balfour on the scrapheap, converting J.P. Howell to relief, supplementing with relatively cheap veterans like Dan Wheeler and Troy Percival.

And that's just the pitchers. They have who is quite possibly their best position player, Evan Longoria, through 2016. Their second best position player, B.J. Upton, is with them through 2012, assuming they don't extend him. They have two very good middle infield prospects in Tim Beckham and Reid Brignac. Carl Crawford and Carlos Pena are their only core players who they might lose soon, both eligible for free agency after 2010.

This team is literally overflowing with young, top-level talent, under team control for half-a-decade or more. Not all the prospects will pan out, but when you assemble a stable of prospects like that of the Rays, you're still going to get a bunch of good players.

And it's not like the scouting/management team that assembled all of these prospects in the first place has just magically forgotten how to rate talent and draft well, so chances are more will keep coming. They won't be getting constant Top 5 picks anymore (most likely), but it's not like every kid they have who's panned out was taken in Round 1.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

They have their current best pitcher, James Shields, locked up through 2014, hey have their second best pitcher, Scott Kazmir, through 2012, and Matt Garza through 2013. They have their top prospect who very well may be their best pitcher come the end of the 2009 season, David Price, through at least 2014. That's 4 top-of-the-rotation starters (or with the potential to be) locked up together for at least the next 4 years. Then they also have Andy Sonnanstine, Wade Davis, Jacob McGee, Jeff Niemann, Matt Moore, Nick Barnese, and Jeremy Hellickson, all with mid-rotation potential or better. All of these pitchers are under team control through at least 2012.

They've demonstrated the ability to assemble a good bullpen on the cheap, finding Grant Balfour on the scrapheap, converting J.P. Howell to relief, supplementing with relatively cheap veterans like Dan Wheeler and Troy Percival.

And that's just the pitchers. They have who is quite possibly their best position player, Evan Longoria, through 2016. Their second best position player, B.J. Upton, is with them through 2012, assuming they don't extend him. They have two very good middle infield prospects in Tim Beckham and Reid Brignac. Carl Crawford and Carlos Pena are their only core players who they might lose soon, both eligible for free agency after 2010.

This team is literally overflowing with young, top-level talent, under team control for half-a-decade or more. Not all the prospects will pan out, but when you assemble a stable of prospects like that of the Rays, you're still going to get a bunch of good players.

---

Pat Burrell will also be a free agent after 2010, in the interest of being thorough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by haveacigar

Pat Burrell will also be a free agent after 2010, in the interest of being thorough.

---

Yeah, I was focusing on the homegrown talent mostly, but through Carlos Pena in there because he was a scrapheap pickup. Their front office has demonstrated intelligence and efficiency, which is almost as important as their huge surplus of talent in assessing their future, and Pat Burrell is an example of that. Andrew Friedman is easily in the Theo Epstein/Billy Beane class of GMs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Yeah, I was focusing on the homegrown talent mostly, but through Carlos Pena in there because he was a scrapheap pickup. Their front office has demonstrated intelligence and efficiency, which is almost as important as their huge surplus of talent in assessing their future, and Pat Burrell is an example of that. Andrew Friedman is easily in the Theo Epstein/Billy Beane class of GMs.

---

You really look at Friedman's tenure over the last 3 years, and I don't know if the guy has made a single mistake during that time. Some of it is luck: Carlos Pena only made the team in 07 because Greg Norton got injured. But, it's just incredible the way the guy just don't screw up.

I am in no way, shape, or form saying that the Rays won't be fantastic for the next 5 years... what I am saying is that when their young players' contracts expire, they will be screwed. It is VERY VERY likely that their farm system won't be this loaded for a considerbly long time. They won't be getting top 5 picks every year for now on... what I have been saying is that when the Garza's, Kazmir's, Shields', Crawford's, Upton's, and co. are gone... they are likely screwed. They maybe able to resign 1 or 2 of them, but that's probably about it, unless fans start showing up in bunches. We'll see, though... you can think that you're right, and that I am dead wrong, but ya know what? No one will know for sure who is right until that day comes when those contracts need re-upped.

With their current talent in the big leagues locked up for 5+ years, and their line of prospects not even ready to make their debuts yet, thus keeping them with the Rays probably for the next 7-10 years, that's a long-time coming. For an organizational ranking of a team's future outlook, the Rays undoubtedly are in the top 5, if not the top 2 with Boston. That they may or may not be able to resign their free agents come 6-10 years down the line isn't enough to outweigh their great ownership, great GM, top-level young major league proven talent, and overflowing farm system.

Also, I beg to differ about their farm system. Look at Boston. When was the last time they had a top 5 pick? Their Baseball America talent rankings for the last 4 years: 8, 9, 2, 13. Scouting, development, analysis, foreign free agency, and efficient moves are all more important in the assembling of a farm system than having top-5 picks. For that, I point to the Pirates, who have had top 5 picks for much longer than the Rays, and have literally nothing to show for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by koolzach1

I am in no way, shape, or form saying that the Rays won't be fantastic for the next 5 years... what I am saying is that when their young players' contracts expire, they will be screwed. It is VERY VERY likely that their farm system won't be this loaded for a considerbly long time. They won't be getting top 5 picks every year for now on... what I have been saying is that when the Garza's, Kazmir's, Shields', Crawford's, Upton's, and co. are gone... they are likely screwed. They maybe able to resign 1 or 2 of them, but that's probably about it, unless fans start showing up in bunches. We'll see, though... you can think that you're right, and that I am dead wrong, but ya know what? No one will know for sure who is right until that day comes when those contracts need re-upped.

---

I haven't been on this forum a ton, so I don't know all the members that well. Are you a Yankees fan?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KowboyKoop

I haven't been on this forum a ton, so I don't know all the members that well. Are you a Yankees fan?

---

He is...I've tried not to bring that up though, because from what I've seen, he's able to have rational thoughts not blinded by his rooting interests (unlike some other posters here ;)).

San Francisco 19 and Minnesota 18....still no Seattle or Baltimore...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

He is...I've tried not to bring that up though, because from what I've seen, he's able to have rational thoughts not blinded by his rooting interests (unlike some other posters here ;)).

---

I try :cool: (I really do hate posters that are so blind by their own team, aka - homers)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

San Francisco 19 and Minnesota 18....still no Seattle or Baltimore...

---

This ranking is starting to break down. I don't know what the hell Dave Cameron knows to put the Twins behind the ChiSox, Mariners, Orioles, or Oakland. If he wants to put it all on Pohlad, fine. In that case, Pohlad isn't a C-, he's a D- or an F.

I think Toronto should be better then Seattle and San Fran.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by haveacigar

This ranking is starting to break down. I don't know what the hell Dave Cameron knows to put the Twins behind the ChiSox, Mariners, Orioles, or Oakland. If he wants to put it all on Pohlad, fine. In that case, Pohlad isn't a C-, he's a D- or an F.

---

I would rank them behind Oakland, easily, as Oakland has a fantastic front office and one of the best farm systems in the game, and would probably also rank them behind the White Sox because of their GM....but Seattle and Baltimore? I can't think of any reason to rank them ahead of Minnesota (and St. Louis).

ESPECIALLY Baltimore. That organization has been a mess for years, and considering the same idiot still owns the team...