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Dave Cameron of FanGraphs is running a new segment, ranking the organizations, counting down from 30. See here for #30, the Washington Nationals. Right now only 30 and 29 (the Marlins) are up. Change the 30 in the URL to 29 for the Marlins, and when the new articles go up you can just change the number again to get to them.
I don't see how the Marlins can possibly be #29. I mean, Loria's method or actions may not be popular, but as far as the baseball team is concerned, they have had pretty good recent success, have plenty of good young talent and were a fairly decent team last year. As far as the team put on the field..they do a lot better job than most teams. I don't think bad ownership should completely ruin their grade/ranking..that seems pretty harsh. I mean...if you are talking about the state of the Marlins, I don't see what Loria "ruining" the Expos has to do with it.
I'd see the Marlins as closer to #15 or so than 29..that just seems too harsh.
Not really... Loria is an idiot...Quote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
I'd wait to read the rest of the overviews before making any strong judgments on them, but I do think that ownership should take a heavy toll on a ranking of Florida's overall outlook. I think the last sentence sums it up perfectly:
Quote:
The Marlins are getting a lot of stuff right, but the overriding direction of the organization is not towards winning, and that cripples the overall health of the organization.
He's not an idiot. He's just not a BASEBALL owner. He's a businessman, whose SOLE concern is padding his bank account and NOT building a winning baseball team (which would, ironically, probably do more to pad his bank account).Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
Yeah..they do seem to have a lot of good to say about the Marlins, I just don't agree that ownership should bring their grade down SOOOO much. I mean..in the end, it's about winning, and the Marlins have done a lot more of that than other organizations lately.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
But...ownership is holding them back from being better than just a .500 team that every once in a while nudges its way into a pennant race. That's why the grade is brought down so severely. If they had ownership that actually cared about winning, the Marlins, who have a great front office and player development system, would be perennial contenders.Quote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
But they're still better than a good number of MLB teams, which I think is what KK is saying. Yeh, they could be better, but so could most teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
They're long-term outlook, though, is pretty much right where they are right now, which is what I think this "organizational ranking" is trying to capture. They have no upside because in 3 years when all there good players are up for arbitration, they'll be dealt out of town, just to repeat the process, essentially in a loop of mediocrity.Quote:
Originally Posted by etothep
Going completely off the top of my head, I wouldn't have Florida 29th, if only because I'd put Houston there.
Well, it seems like the Marlins have been doing the same thing for a while now and have a couple World Series titles to show for it. The players may be in and out, but they keep rebuilding quickly and never seem to be that bad of a team...with a couple titles. I think their ownership prevents them from being a "good" organization, but no way are they one of the worst given their success.
Loria took over as owner right before 2002, so the 2003 World Series team was pretty much built up before he got there. Since that World Series, though, they've been essentially .500 year in and year out. Barring a change in Loria's methods (and judging by his destruction of Montreal, that's not happening any time soon), I think this is the peak of what the Marlins can do when being run like they currently are. With three very competent organizations in their division in New York, Philadelphia, and Atlanta, they'll have a very tough time breaking this streak of mediocrity without Loria changing his ways. I actually think Beinfest is the best GM in the division right now, but ownership severely hampers him and the team.
I don't think the Marlins should be that low either, but I don't see them as a #15. They're definitely not #29, though. Teams like Houston, Seattle and San Diego are in far worse positions, currently.
Loria may have had his 03 champion team built for him, but he doesn't run things *that* much differently than the way things were run before. I think Beinfest is a great GM, and among the best in the majors. The moves he's allowed to make are always great, and the scouting in that system appears to be top notch.
Granted, I don't know that much, but I'd put the Marlins around 23 or 24. Severely hampered by a cheap, shrewd owner with no baseball sense, but the rest of the organization is first class.
Houston and San Diego, I'd agree. Seattle, though, with Bavasi gone, things are brighter. Seattle's close to Florida, but I don't know if I'd put them worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe12Pack
pittsburgh is 29 for me
They are slowly getting better. Huntington is a great GM, though they do have awful ownership.Quote:
Originally Posted by etothep