http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3942130
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So for Vrabel and Cassel we only get a 2nd round pick!!!:mad::mad: We deserve the 3rd overall pick. It's way to early to trade Cassel Though. Now the Depth Chart is
Tom Brady
Kevin O' Connell
Matt Gutieriz
Yeah, the third overall pick for a quarterback whose played one decent season and a 33 year old linebacker :rolleyes:.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthJaker
lmfao..you've been listening to the Boston media too much. Vrabel alone would likely not even bring a 5th round pick, and no way Cassel would bring a first from anyone. I think this is a very good trade for NE, and I personally liked Thigpen in KC so I think Cassel sets his development back.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthJaker
I live in Illinois:p I dont even visit boston websites:pQuote:
Originally Posted by dickay
We need a QB.....I say we sign Rex Grossman:p:p but i do want a Cornerback in the draft.... Jenkins or Davis though
I did too, but they're both relatively unproven commodities, so it'll probably be an open battle for starting QB in training camp, which is usually more good than it is bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
I think it's a pretty fair deal on both sides. While Cassell is still a relative unknown in his own right, I think he's a little bit less of an unknown than Cassel, and as I mentioned above a QB battle could be good for the players and the team as a whole. Vrabel's getting up there in age, but he still immediately improves a pathetic Chiefs defense. I'd say it's an almost exactly even trade in terms of value.
Highly doubt either of those guys slip to the Patriots.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthJaker
Cassel is an upgrade over Thigpen. Thigpen isn't a starter...he just had a few good games b/c of the system.
Doesn't really matter though..KC is going nowhere until they MASSIVELY overhaul the O and D lines.
Thigpen showed great skills in the games I watched. Solid arm strength, good pressence under pressure. I find it hard to believe a "system" in place with little to no talent on the OL, and HB made such a difference. That "system" was fairly new. If anyone benefitted from a "system" its Cassel playing in a proven winning system with an offense that went undefeated in the regular season just one season prior lmfao.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
Thigpen was just as effective as Cassell with a MUCH poorer team around him. Thigpen is more mobile and can throw very well on the run. Thigpen is 24 and Cassell is 26 - not much age difference, but Thigpen was looking like their quarterback. I would be upset if I was Thigpen.
I would be motivated.Quote:
Originally Posted by bucher34
Cassel had a better TD/INT ratio, a QB rating of 89.4, compared to 76.0 for Thigpen, a 63.4 completion percentage, compared to 54.8 percent for Thigpen, and over a yard better "yard per attempt" average.
Cassel is clearly better than Thigpen.
All of this while Thigpen played in an offense built around the pass and throwing the ball to one of the greatest tight ends in history. A 54.8 completion percentage in that offense is not very good. Thigpen is not a starting QB. Cassel isn't great, but he's better.
Still need a better O-line though.
I'm gonna kill Matt Cassel if Tom Brady isn't starting on opening day:mad::mad::mad:
I hope this is at least slightly sarcastic.Quote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
The talent around Cassell might have been just a tad better than that of the Chiefs which would allow Cassell to put up better numbers.
And DJ: I don't think that Brady's knee has anything to do with Cassell
It is not his fault he got tradedQuote:
Originally Posted by DarthJaker
I'm not calling Cassell a great QB. I'm saying Thigpen isn't very good. Such a poor completion percentage in the system they were running in the 2nd half of the season is quite poor. A real starting QB would've done much, much better.Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
I think the point fili was trying to make wasn't that you're overrating Cassell, but that you're severely underrating Thigpen who is 2 years younger than Cassell and Thigpen also played on a much worse team. I think the starting QB should be based on next year's pre-season rather than just saying "Well Cassel was better last year sooo...."Quote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
YES it is he was born:p:pQuote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
Well, not that this was a serious response, but how is being born his fault?Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthJaker
I'm not opposed to having Thigpen be in competition for the starting spot, but he simply isn't very good. Making some short passes to Tony Gonzalez and then watching the HOF'er drag 5 guys for 10 extra yards over and over doesn't make Thigpen a good QB. His arm is inaccurate. Simple as that. With the system the Chiefs switched to last year, any decent QB can complete 58%+ of passes in his sleep. Thigpen missed so many easy throws last year it was unbelievable. The only reason anyone thinks he's any good is b/c he came literally out of nowhere and is/was a nice story. Don't buy the hype.Quote:
Originally Posted by 200tang
The following takes place between now and when I sober up.
Did someone just make a terrorist threat on future HOF QB Matt Cassel? Chloe, give me the coordinates to DarthJakers residence. I need to apprehend the suspect and force him to tell me all he knows about the planned attack on the White House.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthJaker
You'll never find me:eek::eek::eek::eek:
I'm a little bit surprised New England didn't hold off a bit longer with Cassel and see if the value went up as the few free agent passers signed and left any team that still had a hole at QB more desperate. Not a bad trade, though...KC gets another young passer and New England gets a 2nd round pick for unloading about $11 mil off their cap.
They should have tried to rip Detriot off of that 1st pick :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Arctic Blast
Nah, that never would have happened. :D I dunno, I wonder if they maybe could have gotten...maybe not a 1st...but a 2nd and either a 3rd or 4th from somebody if they'd held off a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
Great trade for both sides:
KC gets a good, young QB that can win games, and a solid veteran LB on a young defense.
NE gets a high(ish) draft pick that they can use to possibly move up in the first round.
I think everyone's overlooking the real losers in this trade, though:
All of the QBs in the draft class.
With KC out of the picture, that means they're losing #3 pick money, and having to settle for later selections, and lesser contracts.
True that, POC. Sanchez can probably make arrangements to be in New York now.
Or they'll unload it for a couple of later picks. That seems to be their preferred M.O.Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoOfCouch13
True, they've done that in the past, and I wouldn't be surprised if they do it again to save cap space for Wilfork. However, if someone high on their board available at 15-17, I'm sure Belichick will be on the phone shopping the 23rd and the Chiefs' 2nd rounder.Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetMedic
Cassel:Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
DYAR: 17th
YAR: 12th
DVOA: 20th
Thigpen:
DYAR: 30
YAR: 26
DVOA: 30
DVOA - Defense-adjusted Value Over Average. DVOA breaks down every single play of the NFL season to see how much success offensive players achieved in each specific situation compared to the league average in that situation, adjusted for the strength of the opponent
DYAR is essentially the same as DVOA, but each play is instead compared to a number roughly 13.3% below the average success value of similar plays. That gives us value over a replacement level player, a better representation of a player's total contribution to his team on all his plays.
YAR is similar to DYAR, but it isn't adjusted for opponent.
As you can see, Cassel was pretty much right around a league avg QB last season while Thigpen was at best, a below average QB last year. Hopefully you didn't need more advanced metrics like these to realize this though, since it should have been quite evident from the stats already provided by KowboyKoop (while Comp % & YPA aren't the be-all, end-all of stats for QB success, any time a QB is 30th & 29th in those respective stats then that's a pretty good tell that the team should probably think about looking for a new QB)
The rumor is that the Broncos offered Cutler to the Bucs for a first round pick which they would then trade to the Patriots for Cassel.
McDaniels...sigh...
seriously? what i can't believe is...the bucs turned it down?? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by OregonDuck1989
The Bucs initiated the deal, my mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by etothep
The Broncos reportedly are now saying they never even discussed it but Cutler (never the one to keep his mouth shut) is saying his days in Denver are done.
I hope not. I think once Cutler matures (much like Rivers did this year) he will be one of the elite QB's in the NFL.
Cutler just comes across as pretty whiny to me
He is.Quote:
Originally Posted by etothep
He needs to mature, Rivers until this season came off as a huge prick who couldn't live up to his own mouth...which I feel Cutler is coming off as.
He needs to mature and then hopefully we can see how great of a player he can actually be because he is already pretty damn good.
Maybe Dawkins will smack some sense into him?Quote:
Originally Posted by OregonDuck1989
Still can't believe the Broncos got him for that cheap. He's a damn stud at safety
That'd be nice lolQuote:
Originally Posted by etothep
Yeah he's only got two-three more years left in him at 36 but God him and Renaldo Hill are huge steps up from Manuel and Mcree.
Noooo i had thigpen i kept him in my fantasy league grrrr
You KEPT Tyler Thigpen in a fantasy league...??? :eek: