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considered for the HOF? Now this is a guy, for me anyway, that makes you wonder what if he had been able to remain healthy his entire career, BA .314, OPS+ 124, OBP .362, SLUG .523, rookie of the year 1997, two AL battling titles, 1 sliver slugger award, 2006 comeback player of the year and a 6 time all star in 13 seasons for his career.
I don't think so. I remember the two grand slams on his birthday, must have been 01 or 02. Man what a guy.
But HOF? Considering the years with the Cubs, Dodgers...not at this point. If he has a couple more years, maybe we could talk.
I agree somewhat with you, as I said earlier he leaves you wondering what might have been if he could have only stayed healthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alloutwar
He also just hasn't played enough. He is at 1,369 games - which is 100 less than Ralph Kiner who is noted for having a short career. If you are going to play that little, you need to have a higher, more sustained peak than Nomar did. But I agree that it would have been nice to see what his career could have been.
Agreed.
The comp. is Hughie Jennings, but Jennings had a much higher peak (plus managerial work).
Agreed, and you just had to mention Kiner, one of my fav non HOF players, lol:)Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny1234
Kiner's a HOFer. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Wassit3
:( I wish he was, he is one of my favorites. Maybe if he has some big bounce back and plays for a few more years, but that is unlikely...
My original, off-the-top-of-my-head response was "no". But looking at his stats over at baseball-reference.com, I realized that he actually has a better case than people here seem to be giving him credit for. He's still a marginal candidate, IMO, and I personally wouldn't vote for him, but he has a chance.
I wish. He was great, but for a shorter time...but give it 15 years and maybe some sportswriters will give it to him.
But no.
Why is this question being asked?
How long until the 'Is JD Drew a future HOFer" thread?
that he is! and I remeber he used o have a show called kiner's korner too! so there you have it if old Ralphie baby can get in with a short career bring Nomar too!:)Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
No. Frankly, I don't even think he's close at this point.
Hes no way a HOFer. He got hurt more than Ki-Jana Carter and Mark Prior rolled into one player. Oh yeah he went on the 30 day dl for cutting himself shaving.
lol that has to be one of the all-time weird dl injuries everQuote:
Originally Posted by ragecage
Mark Prior and Robinson Cano Have a better chance to get into the HOF than Nomar:rolleyes:
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthJaker
Did you just pick 2 random players or what? :confused:
whoever voted 'yes, no question' needs there posting privileges revoked
im pretty sure it was Nomar himself:D:D
Hmmmm, well according to that favorite team poll a couple weeks back, there are more Red Sox fans here than any other team. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by etothep
It is almost pretty close for him, but he still falls short. When he was on the Sox, he was outstanding. It was him, Jeter and A-rod, all 3 were awesome! Once he left Boston, his career hasn't been the same, as well as his body. Great Player, I hope his brother does something with the Mariners :)
No, absolutely not unless you're putting him in because he was a part of the shortstop revolution that changed the way people look at the position in the '90's (you know the Bruce Sutter inclusion clause). On his own merit though he falls short and please stop dragging Ralph Kiner into the discussion. I'm not sure if Mr. Kiner belongs or not, but he's certainly more worthy than Nomaaah. Yes, they both had short careers but Kiner's was considerably more healthy (averaged 147 GP a year during the 154 game schedule era) than Nomar's (has averaged 105 GP a year during the 162 game schedule era) and more productive (149 to 125 in OPS+ plus Kiner averaged 37 HR a season over his all too brief career).
Should they open up a "DL wing" in Cooperstown I'm sure Nomar, Kevin Mitchell, Darryl Strawberry, Eric Davis and Dwight Gooden would be among the first recipients of enshrinement. All of them were phenomenal talents in their day, but they simply couldn't avoid the infirmary and that is why I hope none of them get in. It is the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of the Very Good and despite Frankie Frisch and his cronies' attempts to lower it to the Hall of the Very Good and perhaps the Hall of the Somewhat Mediocre, it should remain the place where only the best of the best that MLB has to offer wind up when they hang up their spikes for good. Just my 2 cents. ;)
Nomar has a better argument than any of those guys, except maybe Strawberry, who, like Gooden, has the additional albatross of the drug problem weighting down his candidacy. I don't see why everyone is so down on him. To reiterate, I don't think that he should be elected, but he does have some arguments in his favor, but people are acting like someone had suggested Jeff Treadway or Brian Harper or somesuch for the Hall, and I don't understand that.Quote:
Originally Posted by actionjackson
Is he down with those guys? No...but it's been a long time since he's put in anything resembling a full, productive season.Quote:
Originally Posted by dps
2006 wasn't that long ago, though I'm not sure I'd exactly call it a full season for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctic Blast
My point was that they are all cases of - OMG, what might have been had the injury bug (and a few other "demons") not hit so hard. I don't think any of the four I mentioned were ridiculous examples.
Mitchell wound up with a career 142 OPS+, Strawberry was at 139, and Davis was at 125 which is what Nomar is at right now. Gooden after his age 25 season was as close to a mortal lock for Cooperstown as you've ever seen going 119-46 with a 2.82 ERA and almost a strikeout an inning and about 2.5 BB / 9IP. Davis looked like he would be the next 500/500 man when he came up in the mid-'80's. Blazing speed, and awesome raw power at a traditionally defensive position (CF). Strawberry was another 5-tool OF for whom everything came so easily and effortlessly, at least on the baseball field. Off it he was a f***n train wreck. He also looked like a possible 500/500 guy and had 280 HR after his age 29 season. Kevin Mitchell umm, was not a 5-tool OF, but he could absolutely rake. Take a look at some of his seasons between 1986 and 1996: ridiculous. He put up some absolute "Nintendo" numbers in there.
The whole point was that we were robbed of five easy (on talent and early career production) HOFers because of injuries and off-field "issues" and that is a damn shame. But, part of being a HOFer is longevity and none of these guys have it. Certainly none of these 5 is a Jeff Treadway or a Brian Harper and if there was a Hall of the Very Good you could make a case for all of them. Is Nomar at the head of this class? I'd say so. He plays the most demanding position, but it's not as much of a gulf between him and the others as your Treadway/Harper analogy (your glowing examples not mine) would imply. ;)
The only reason I brought up Kiner in the first place was to highlight how little Nomar has played. To me Kiner is the poster child for the very short career HOF - to get in with such a short career you need to have ridiculous numbers. Kiner did, Nomar's are very good - but they aren't good enough given the short career.Quote:
On his own merit though he falls short and please stop dragging Ralph Kiner into the discussion.
Now this question is today's ESPN poll!
North Dakota is split.....only two votes so far though.....Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
what can we say HGM, we are such trend seterrs:pQuote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Well, if you want to look at guys who would be in the Hall if not for injuries and off-the-field issues, you might want to start with Jeff Heath. But the real problem with that approach is that if you start looking at guys who would have had what seemed like potential HoF careers derailed by injuries, there are more of them than there are real HoFers. For the most part, you have to judge players on what they actually did, not what they might have done. But Nomar, judged by his actual numbers, is a lot closer than people here seem to be willing to acknowledge. True, he still falls short IMO, but he's not a silly suggestion like a Treadway or Harper would be.Quote:
Originally Posted by actionjackson
I think i would have to give him the nod. He was as good a hitter as any in the league for a good 5 years, and still an elite caliber player well after his injuries.