Ozzie Smith

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02-23-2009, 01:24 PM
Pavelb1

Ozzie Smith

If you have any doubts about his being in the HOF...watch The Sandberg Game on now on MLB.
02-24-2009, 08:53 PM
Porklet

Re: Ozzie Smith

Do you have a link for the video?
02-24-2009, 11:18 PM
eggson27

Re: Ozzie Smith

I don't have MLB Network!!!!!! Ahhhhhhh make me feel even worse.
02-25-2009, 12:44 AM
Porklet

Re: Ozzie Smith

I thought you meant MLB.com.
02-25-2009, 03:11 AM
OregonDuck1989

Re: Ozzie Smith

Isn't Metsguy the one who says he doesn't deserve to be in?
02-25-2009, 07:09 AM
HoustonGM

Re: Ozzie Smith

Yep.

But then he thought Omar Vizquel belongs...until it was pointed out that Vizquel sucked as a hitter.
02-25-2009, 07:30 AM
200tang

Re: Ozzie Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Yep.

But then he thought Omar Vizquel belongs...until it was pointed out that Vizquel sucked as a hitter.

xD
02-25-2009, 12:22 PM
Jeffy25

Re: Ozzie Smith

Ozzie was my idol growing up! I youtubed searched him the other day and found a fielding video from him....it was awesome! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRVQmnA4gVQ

I love him, I don't know how you can say a 15 time all star and 13 time gold glove award winner doesn't deserve it. he is/was an elite player in the eye's of the game. stole over 500 bases, just a sub par hitter....other then the 85 playoffs. He was arguably the best shortstop to play the game....i see that as enough reason for him to be in the hall...being the best at one of the most demanding positions.
02-25-2009, 12:26 PM
HoustonGM

Re: Ozzie Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffy25

He was arguably the best shortstop to play the game....i see that as enough reason for him to be in the hall...being the best at one of the most demanding positions.

Defensively only, I'm assuming. He's not close to being the best overall shortstop to play the game. But, defensively, I don't think it's arguable that he's the best ever.
02-25-2009, 12:27 PM
OregonDuck1989

Re: Ozzie Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Defensively only, I'm assuming. He's not close to being the best overall shortstop to play the game. But, defensively, I don't think it's arguable that he's the best ever.

Agreed. Best Damn did a "Best All-Time team" and Ozzie didn't get a single vote. Not one for shortstop.

A-Rod won it.

I was a little upset Ozzie didn't at least get votes....but then again I was watching Best Damn.
02-25-2009, 12:29 PM
Jeffy25

Re: Ozzie Smith

I was saying defensively. I believe he defensively played the game as well as anyone else...certainly during his time. There have been very athletic shortstops, but it is such a high demand position, and I believe Ozzie played it as well as anyone
02-25-2009, 12:29 PM
HoustonGM

Re: Ozzie Smith

Ozzie didn't "play it as well as anyone." He played it better than anyone. :p
02-25-2009, 12:31 PM
HoustonGM

Re: Ozzie Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by OregonDuck1989

Agreed. Best Damn did a "Best All-Time team" and Ozzie didn't get a single vote. Not one for shortstop.

A-Rod won it.

I was a little upset Ozzie didn't at least get votes....but then again I was watching Best Damn.

Where the hell was Honus Wagner?
02-25-2009, 12:33 PM
RedsoxRockies

Re: Ozzie Smith

Or Arky Vaughn? Houston, this is "Best Damn", not a group of sabermetrical geniuses
02-25-2009, 12:36 PM
HoustonGM

Re: Ozzie Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies

Or Arky Vaughn? Houston, this is "Best Damn", not a group of sabermetrical geniuses

It doesn't take a group of sabermetric geniuses to know that Honus Wagner is the best shortstop ever to play, bar none. It takes a group of monkeys with half their normal brain function.
02-25-2009, 12:39 PM
Jeffy25

Re: Ozzie Smith

Best damn has zero true thought to any of their shows....I can't really stand to watch them that much, or even PTI. I just don't see it as true thought provoking answers or questions.
02-25-2009, 12:44 PM
Joe12Pack

Re: Ozzie Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Yep.

But then he thought Omar Vizquel belongs...until it was pointed out that Vizquel sucked as a hitter.

I think Vizquel belongs. Kind of an Ozzie-lite... remarkable fielding (the best career fielder at SS that I can think of, outside of Ozzie, in my time), a billion gold gloves, very durable, did just enough as a hitter to be worth something on offense (considering his position), had considerable speed, and played more games at the position than anyone, ever.
02-25-2009, 12:48 PM
Jeffy25

Re: Ozzie Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe12Pack

I think Vizquel belongs. Kind of an Ozzie-lite... remarkable fielding (the best career fielder at SS that I can think of, outside of Ozzie, in my time), a billion gold gloves, very durable, did just enough as a hitter to be worth something on offense (considering his position), had considerable speed, and played more games at the position than anyone, ever.

I think Omar deserves consideration, but I don't know if I would say he is hall worthy. I would say he is fringe at best....I could be proven wrong here.
02-25-2009, 12:50 PM
Joe12Pack

Re: Ozzie Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffy25

I think Omar deserves consideration, but I don't know if I would say he is hall worthy. I would say he is fringe at best....I could be proven wrong here.

Definitely fringe... but I wouldn't consider Ozzie a fringe guy, and I think Vizquel benefits from Ozzie's presence in the Hall because similar arguments would be made for both.

I doubt Vizquel will actually make it in real life.
02-25-2009, 12:52 PM
Jeffy25

Re: Ozzie Smith

What about Fryman?
02-25-2009, 01:07 PM
Joe12Pack

Re: Ozzie Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffy25

What about Fryman?

Nah... totally different type of guy. Great defense, but mostly a 3B, so he's not really in the same conversation. His offense was not overly impressive for 3B, and his defense, while very good, was never HOF-worthy.
02-25-2009, 01:24 PM
Wassit3

Re: Ozzie Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

It doesn't take a group of sabermetric geniuses to know that Honus Wagner is the best shortstop ever to play, bar none. It takes a group of monkeys with half their normal brain function.

um Houston a group of monkeys with half their normal brain function FAR out classes the intelligence of the best damn crew...
02-25-2009, 01:58 PM
HoustonGM

Re: Ozzie Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe12Pack

I think Vizquel belongs. Kind of an Ozzie-lite... remarkable fielding (the best career fielder at SS that I can think of, outside of Ozzie, in my time), a billion gold gloves, very durable, did just enough as a hitter to be worth something on offense (considering his position), had considerable speed, and played more games at the position than anyone, ever.

I don't think Vizquel is close. Ozzie was a MUCH better offensive player (and a better defensive player). Vizquel had some nice seasons and was a good player, but he never was close to being a great player. Ozzie had multiple seasons where he was (or rather, should have been) a legitimate MVP contender. I have Ozzie as the best NL shortstop from 1984-1989. I don't see any season where Vizquel was the best shortstop in his league. Shortstops as a whole were just much better in Vizquel's time. In 1998, for example, the average AL shortstop hit .274/.323/.407. In 1988, the average NL shortstop hit .246/.300/.337. Even without adjusting for position, though, Ozzie was a much better hitter.

Vizquel is much more like Rabbit Maranville than Ozzie Smith...and that's a guy generally regarding as among the weakest HoF selections.
02-25-2009, 02:14 PM
Jeffy25

Re: Ozzie Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

I don't think Vizquel is close. Ozzie was a MUCH better offensive player (and a better defensive player). Vizquel had some nice seasons and was a good player, but he never was close to being a great player. Ozzie had multiple seasons where he was (or rather, should have been) a legitimate MVP contender. I have Ozzie as the best NL shortstop from 1984-1989. I don't see any season where Vizquel was the best shortstop in his league. Shortstops as a whole were just much better in Vizquel's time. In 1998, for example, the average AL shortstop hit .274/.323/.407. In 1988, the average NL shortstop hit .246/.300/.337. Even without adjusting for position, though, Ozzie was a much better hitter.

Vizquel is much more like Rabbit Maranville than Ozzie Smith...and that's a guy generally regarding as among the weakest HoF selections.

98 AL Shortstops that were better: A-Rod, Jeter, Garciaparra, Tejada, even alex gonzalez (I believe) had good years
02-25-2009, 02:18 PM
Jeffy25

Re: Ozzie Smith

I will always have a proverbial hard on for Ozzie, he is the reason I am a Cards fan. I played shortstop as a kid etc...I will always inflate his number in my mind and his ability. He is my guy :)
02-25-2009, 03:29 PM
ragecage

Re: Ozzie Smith

He was the best defensive player I have ever seen play.
02-25-2009, 03:42 PM
HoustonGM

Re: Ozzie Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffy25

98 AL Shortstops that were better: A-Rod, Jeter, Garciaparra, Tejada, even alex gonzalez (I believe) had good years

Nomar, A-Rod, and Jeter, yes. Tejada was just getting started and was pretty terrible that year. Alex Gonzalez was the worst shortstop in the AL that year (among full-timers).
02-25-2009, 04:22 PM
ragecage

Re: Ozzie Smith

A-Rod doesnt even hold a candle to Eric Chavez as far as defensive 3rd baseman go. Just thought I would throw that in. :D It might be a little homerish for me to say so, but ive watched Chavie play for a long time and only Rolen was better. if not equal.
02-25-2009, 04:24 PM
HoustonGM

Re: Ozzie Smith

Who talked about third base defense, or A-Rod as a third basemen? :p
02-25-2009, 04:28 PM
ragecage

Re: Ozzie Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Who talked about third base defense, or A-Rod as a third basemen? :p

Sorry HGM, its just the jeger kickin in. :p