Jayson Stark is a joke.

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Originally Posted by Arctic Blast

So, I just read the Stark article...why exactly are we vilifying him? For pointing out the FACT that ARod's 'truth' has been shifting every single time he talks to somebody? For pointing out the fact that his initial response was to vilify the reporter who 'outed' him? He HAS been inconsistent, and he DID try to obfuscate and distract...grow up and accept it.

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It has to do with more than just this one article, such as this one, where Stark claims that A-Rod and the other juicers have destroyed the game...where he makes this completely incorrect and ridiculous claim:

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What compares to it? The Black Sox? This is worse. Game-fixing in college basketball? This is worse. Nominate any scandal in the history of sports. My vote is that this is worse.

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That claim right there is what just made me completely shut out anything Stark has to say about this issue. It shows how incredibly biased and stupid his stance is.

Then there's stupid statements like:

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It's not worse because it will cause massive numbers of people to stop watching or caring about baseball. Check the attendance. Check the revenue charts. People will come back. They've already come back. The sport, as a business, is doing great.

But the sport, as a unique paragon of American culture, is devastated. And that's forever.

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Oh, please, shove it. Baseball was never this pure, shining beacon of everything right in America and the writers that still hold on to that utopian notion and act as though steroid users have taken that "idea" and torn it apart are being intellectually dishonest.

Reading through that mess of a piece where he continually points out reasons why he's wrong (such as he did with the attendance and popularity of baseball) just to say "but that doesn't matter, I'm still right" makes my head hurt.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

It has to do with more than just this one article, such as this one, where Stark claims that A-Rod and the other juicers have destroyed the game...where he makes this completely incorrect and ridiculous claim:


That claim right there is what just made me completely shut out anything Stark has to say about this issue. It shows how incredibly biased and stupid his stance is.

Then there's stupid statements like:

Oh, please, shove it. Baseball was never this pure, shining beacon of everything right in America and the writers that still hold on to that utopian notion and act as though steroid users have taken that "idea" and torn it apart are being intellectually dishonest.

Reading through that mess of a piece where he continually points out reasons why he's wrong (such as he did with the attendance and popularity of baseball) just to say "but that doesn't matter, I'm still right" makes my head hurt.

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metsguy exposed??
:confused:

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Originally Posted by etothep

metsguy exposed??
:confused:

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Is Metsguy really Jayson Stark?

I wouldnt call it stupid, more extreme than anything though.

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Originally Posted by ragecage

I wouldnt call it stupid, more extreme than anything though.

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Claiming that this is the worst scandal in the history of sports is stupid. It's not only stupid. It's monumentally stupid. Hell, simply claiming that players taking steroids is worse than players taking money to lose on purpose is monumentally stupid all by itself.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Claiming that this is the worst scandal in the history of sports is stupid. It's not only stupid. It's monumentally stupid. Hell, simply claiming that players taking steroids is worse than players taking money to lose on purpose is monumentally stupid all by itself.

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I guess im nicer about it I suppose, I thought it was a false and extreme comment. Thats the 2nd biggest black mark to me though (Black Sox). Keeping black players from playing is the biggest thing in my eyes.

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Originally Posted by ragecage

I guess im nicer about it I suppose, I thought it was a false and extreme comment.

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It was false and extreme, and a sportswriter perpetuating false and extreme myths, to me, is monumentally stupid. It's like the people that keep talking about how Bonds and A-Rod's careers mean nothing now, as if they would've hit 0 home runs without steroids. That's just stupid. If you're being intellectually dishonest like that, you're being stupid. I don't think Stark is a stupid person, but his stance on this and the things he's said about it are stupid.

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Thats the 2nd biggest black mark to me though (Black Sox). Keeping black players from playing is the biggest thing in my eyes.

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I'm sure there's even more than just those 2, considering Stark opened it up to ALL sports scandals. I don't know enough about anything besides baseball, though, but I can't imagine that every other sport doesn't have its fair share of terrible scandals that are way worse than steroids in baseball. The other sports undoubtedly each have their own steroid problems, as well...they just are treated differently, despite the scandals being "equivalent."

I dont know what it is either, I really havent heard stories of bad scandals in other sports. I guess you can say is that other sports in general have done a better job in either keeping scandals quiet, or hitting the issues head on and moving on with it.

I actually agree with almost every thought expressed in this thread. I think you guys are making more of it than it is though. Its quite simple;

Its February 18th. The quietest month for sports in the calendar year. ESPN is simply making a story.....and will force this down our throats until NCAA conference tourneys at the earliest. Its not enough to simply report stories anymore, they have to create them. I honestly havne't watched a full sportscenter in over a year. Just kind of disgusted with ESPN as a whole.

Yep. That's a major problem with sportswriting. It's not enough to just report on the stories. They have to create their own fairy tales.

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Originally Posted by Arctic Blast

And that would be yet ANOTHER reason Bud should be punted.

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Actually. Put Bud, Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens in a room together. And just check in an hour. :)

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Originally Posted by ragecage

I dont know what it is either, I really havent heard stories of bad scandals in other sports. I guess you can say is that other sports in general have done a better job in either keeping scandals quiet, or hitting the issues head on and moving on with it.

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Tim Donaghy 2 years ago?

They happen in other sports. Bud's just the only commish stupid enough to keep bringing it up.

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Originally Posted by haveacigar

Tim Donaghy 2 years ago?

They happen in other sports. Bud's just the only commish stupid enough to keep bringing it up.

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Gambling ring in hockey a couple years ago and there was a small steroid scandal in the NFL a few years back.

Anything that involves actually fixing the outcome of games is obviously worse than steroids. It's not even comparable.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Anything that involves actually fixing the outcome of games is obviously worse than steroids. It's not even comparable.

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The Tim Donaghy thing is a billion times worse than the steroids thing. A referee actually betting on games he calls? Way worse than steroids.

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Originally Posted by haveacigar

The Tim Donaghy thing is a billion times worse than the steroids thing. A referee actually betting on games he calls? Way worse than steroids.

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To NBA's defense, you have to remember that steroid use in MLB happened on a enormous scale, and besides, David Stern didn't exactly approve of Donaghy's actions either (ie, he had to suffer jailtime if I don't remember correctly).

I would say this is worse though, came up about 3 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_It...otball_scandal

Then again, a large percentage of MLB players have systematically used steroids for decades now, and that definitely is a factor in contributing the outcome of games. Imo, steroids is bad. Really bad. I think it's worse than some of you makes it out to be, but again, just my personal opinion.

It's players doing whatever they can to win. There was no enforcement of it, they were essentially allowed to do it. Fixing the outcome of games in any form is a completely different level.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

It's players doing whatever they can to win. There was no enforcement of it, they were essentially allowed to do it. Fixing the outcome of games in any form is a completely different level.

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No, it was players doing whatever they can TO GET PAID. LEt's not try and make this about anything bigger than the simple fact that bigger numbers equal bigger paycheques.

the more people do steroids, the less bad it really is.

the problem with steroids is that produce an uneven playing field for all the people who don't take steroids. but, if most of the league is doing steroids, the actual damage to the competitive balance of the game is lowered.

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Originally Posted by Arctic Blast

No, it was players doing whatever they can TO GET PAID. LEt's not try and make this about anything bigger than the simple fact that bigger numbers equal bigger paycheques.

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Don't bigger numbers also equal more wins?

(Assuming, of course, steroids definitely are a net positive for on-field performance, which I'm not sold on.)

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Rob Neyer and Keith Law are the only ESPN writers truly worth their salt.

I used to think Stark was tolerable, and he still is on most non-A-Rod issues, but he's completely blown a good chunk of his credibility to me thanks to his ridiculous A-Rod nonsense. Olney's a guy who I can't stand EXCEPT for one of his stances, and that being that the powers that be in the MLB (both the league and the Player's Association) need to take partial responsibility for the "Steroid Era."

The reaction to the A-Rod press conference just goes to show just how much of a no-win situation players are in once they're accused/outed as steroid users. The media clamors for some sort of response. A-Rod does it with the Gammons interview and admits to use. That's not enough. The media clamors to know what he used, how he used, why he used, and where he got it from. So, A-Rod gives them that. But that's STILL not enough. No, now they think everything he says is a lie and he still has to tell them more. Jeez, give it the **** up already. It was 6 years ago. Yeah, it sucks, but seriously, move the hell on.

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I agree, whitlock had this to say about that:

"As a journalist, I'm embarrassed by the way the media have attacked this issue. I'm not surprised though. The Worldwide Leader is in bed with ownership. ESPN has no interest in holding Bud Selig and his cronies accountable for the steroid era.

Scott Van Pelt accurately pointed out that Selig pimped A-Rod, Bonds, Mark McGwire and all the rest for years, landed a commissioner's contract of $18.5 million a year and now wants to act like he's appalled by the steroid era. ESPN suspended Van Pelt for telling the truth on Iceberg Selig.

This is comedy, an immoral comedy. Iceberg Selig allegedly is considering suspending A-Rod and removing Bonds as the Home Run King. That would be the equivalent of George Bush court-martialing our Iraq foot soldiers for failing to find weapons of mass destruction."

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Originally Posted by Wassit3

This is comedy, an immoral comedy. Iceberg Selig allegedly is considering suspending A-Rod and removing Bonds as the Home Run King. That would be the equivalent of George Bush court-martialing our Iraq foot soldiers for failing to find weapons of mass destruction."

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I hope Selig does try to remove Bonds as the home run king or punish A-rod. It would be such a flagrant violation of any collective bargaining agreement, it'd be amusing to see how fast the MLBPA went on strike. I don't want to see another baseball strike, but I would like to see Selig called on his **** for once.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Don't bigger numbers also equal more wins?

(Assuming, of course, steroids definitely are a net positive for on-field performance, which I'm not sold on.)

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Yep...but in no way do I believe the majority of athletes in ANY sport care more about the team winning than more numbers in their bank account.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Claiming that this is the worst scandal in the history of sports is stupid. It's not only stupid. It's monumentally stupid. Hell, simply claiming that players taking steroids is worse than players taking money to lose on purpose is monumentally stupid all by itself.

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I would say that anything that effects the outcome of the world series is worst beyond anything.

The 3 biggest scandals/black marks on the sport, IMHO.

1. Blacksox scandal- it will be hard to top this one, in any sport.
2. Granted this is also apart of the Culture back then, but not having a person of color let into the game till 1947 is embarrassing.
3. 1994 Strike, which canceled the World Series.

Cheating has always been part of the game. But the thing is both Pitchers and hitters, did steroids... heck the two biggest players, Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds both are reported to have done steriods (reported as not tested positive).

Saying that the Steroid era is the worst thing since the black sox scandal is untrue. The media has cooked this up and eating it because it sells. Really Steroids doesn't help you hit a ball, or throw a ball. You have to work out to have the steroids help you. Shoot, if Bonds had kept his workout regime(without any steroid help) , he probably would have hit 70 home runs in 2001. Mark McGwire hit 49 in his rookie season....these players later broke the home run record isn't surprising. Bonds has the best eye that the game has ever seen. He can be selective at the plate. He will make sure the pitcher pays for any mistake. You can not hit 762 without ability.

ESPN and all of the Sports Media are jokes, and as much as a joke as A-fraud. Arod isn't a joke because he did steroids, it is because of his character flaws.

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Originally Posted by Arctic Blast

Yep...but in no way do I believe the majority of athletes in ANY sport care more about the team winning than more numbers in their bank account.

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Thankfully, those things are intertwined, because the way to get more money is to play better, and playing better leads to more wins. :)

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Thankfully, those things are intertwined, because the way to get more money is to play better, and playing better leads to more wins. :)

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Generally speaking, yes. There ARE exceptions to that rule, though...such as the point guard in basketball who looks for his own shot above the smart play (Hello, reason Stephon Marbury doesn't have a gig).

Well, I know little about the other games, so I'm speaking purely about baseball here. There's very few instances in baseball where personal betterment isn't also for the betterment of the team.

[QUOTE=HoustonGM;1256487]Thankfully, those things are intertwined, because the way to get more money is to play better, /QUOTE]

Barry Zito got more money to suck more than he did before...:p