Are you freaking kidding me?!!?!?!?!? A-Rod update

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Originally Posted by Alloutwar

I did like Oswalt's take, saying that an A-Rod homer from '03 could have cost him a game, cost him money in incentives, cost his team wins and playoff spots. Oswalt was outspoken in how much someone cheating the game could potentially affect others. I don't agree that you can wipe everything A-Rod's done from the books, but it's good to know some players out there feel slighted at these types of things, and they're not all in on the act.

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Oswalt can shove it. Really. That guy got to the World Series with help from Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte and he didn't make a peep. He didn't say anything when the Astros traded for Miguel Tejada. Oswalt, whether or not he personally used steroids, has benefited from them.

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Originally Posted by Pavelb1

This is ridiculous. I was hoping some sort of amnesty thing came out of this and with a list out there, I was hoping some players would voluntarily come out.

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Joe Maddon, Rays manager, came out in support of amnesty.

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Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

LOL, anybody believing Hank Aaron never took amphetimines when pretty much every other ball player did might as well believe in the tooth fairy too.

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There's also the fact that Hank Aaron admitted to taking amphetamines.

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Originally Posted by dickay

i understand that...but if they are going to take Bonds numbers away then the Yankees of 2000 who the Mitchell rpt found a number of them were roiding are in the same boat.

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They'd have to take away EVERY World Series trophy given out in the last...X years...because I guarantee that each and every team had players that were on the stuff. That's not questionable anymore. The entire era is RIDDLED with steroid use. The entire HISTORY of baseball is RIDDLED with performance-enhancing drug use. Changing the statistical record is quite possibly the dumbest idea that the steroid issue has inspired.

From a commenter at BTF:

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This is exactly why when players like Giambi and Rodriguez apologize, they never actually mention the word steroids, are never specific about what they did, how much they did or who they got it from. A-rod got a lot of criticism for being vague about the specifics of his PED use, but the fact is, jerkwads like Bud make it impossible for the whole truth to come out because the player has to worry about going to jail.

I almost think Bud is acting like this because he simply does not want active players admitting their PED use. He would much rather A-Rod deny and say the samples were probably corrupt - something A-Rod could have done because those samples were obtained outside of the jurisdiction of the law. It was all fine and good to pin the steroids rap on Bonds and Clemens who were heading into retirement, as well as a bunch of other no-names. But if in those 103 other names are guys like Guerrero, Jeter, Pujols, Berkman, Helton, Santana, Webb -- guys who are synonymous with the baseball brand, than it completely undermines the entire purpose of the Mitchell Report which was basically a PR piece that was supposed to put steroids squarely in the past since all the big names were either retired or not very good.

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Interesting take.



Anyway, A-Rod isn't going to be punished. Whatever Selig tries, the MLBPA will fight tooth and nail and probably win.

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They'd have to take away EVERY World Series trophy given out in the last...X years...because I guarantee that each and every team had players that were on the stuff. That's not questionable anymore. The entire era is RIDDLED with steroid use. The entire HISTORY of baseball is RIDDLED with performance-enhancing drug use. Changing the statistical record is quite possibly the dumbest idea that the steroid issue has inspired.

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While this whole thing is preposturous, if they do issue discipline or strike records it would be for those who have been proven to have used through a positive test or admission of guilt. Can't just label everyone a cheat and strike the record book of 50+ years.

This whole thing is a waste of our time this morning, I don't think Selig is that dumb. I hope i'm not giving him too much credit.

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Originally Posted by filihok

It was against the law. Murder isn't expressly forbidden by MLB rules but I'd think a player could be suspended for that

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Comparing it to murder is pretty ridiculous.

The amphetamine comparisons, on the other hand, are much more reasonable.

The Anabolic Steroid Act of 1990 classified steroids as Schedule III controlled substances, the same classification as amphetamines. So if you take the stance that illegality under the law is the basis for punishment by MLB, you should advocate the same punishment for any player who used amphetamines.

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Originally Posted by dickay

While this whole thing is preposturous, if they do issue discipline or strike records it would be for those who have been proven to have used through a positive test or admission of guilt. Can't just label everyone a cheat and strike the record book of 50+ years.

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Which is why the whole notion of striking records from the books is insane. If a World Series can stand when one team was actively trying to lose, there is absolutely no reason why these records shouldn't stand.

Discipline is one thing. I don't agree with it, particularly in A-Rod's case, but it's not unreasonable. Striking records from the books? Quite frankly, **** NO.

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Originally Posted by JayC

The amphetamine comparisons, on the other hand, are much more reasonable.

The Anabolic Steroid Act of 1990 classified steroids as Schedule III controlled substances, the same classification as amphetamines. So if you take the stance that illegality under the law is the basis for punishment by MLB, you should advocate the same punishment for any player who used amphetamines.

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Throwing facts and logic into a steroids discussion????:eek: :eek: :eek:

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Originally Posted by JayC

Comparing it to murder is pretty ridiculous.

The amphetamine comparisons, on the other hand, are much more reasonable.

The Anabolic Steroid Act of 1990 classified steroids as Schedule III controlled substances, the same classification as amphetamines. So if you take the stance that illegality under the law is the basis for punishment by MLB, you should advocate the same punishment for any player who used amphetamines.

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excellent point. i think the masses don't really know what amphetamines are or what they do which is why it garners less attention than steroids from joe fan.

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Originally Posted by dickay

excellent point. i think the masses don't really know what amphetamines are or what they do which is why it garners less attention than steroids from joe fan.

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It doesn't help that the media turns a blind eye to amphetamines. I don't think "the masses" are nearly as outraged about steroid use as the media is, either.

It'd also help if the media didn't misreport things. I don't know how many times I've heard Neifi Perez referred to as a steroid user, when it was amphetamines that he was suspended for.

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Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

Throwing facts and logic into a steroids discussion????:eek: :eek: :eek:

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MDMA is schedule III

Cocaine is schedule II

Does this make any sense?

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Originally Posted by Pavelb1

MDMA is schedule III

Cocaine is schedule II

Does this make any sense?

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It makes more sense than marijuana being Schedule I.

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Originally Posted by dickay

excellent point. i think the masses don't really know what amphetamines are or what they do which is why it garners less attention than steroids from joe fan.

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I don't think many people in this thread have done speed. If they had, they would be a little dubious about it's PED effects.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

It makes more sense than marijuana being Schedule I.

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Sorry, I messed up. Got the numbers and their importance mixed up.

MDMA and cannabis are schedule I. Cocaine is schedule II. Amphetemines are schedule II. Steroids are schedule III...along with Ketamine (!).

TheBest21 made a comment this morning to me: What about players like Ruth that didn't have to face Negro League players. Don't you think the game would have looked a lot differently if Jackie Robinson had happened 60 years earlier?

The point is: Baseball has always had ups and downs with players. Players are going to do whatever they can to be competitive...as they should. Labeling players like Bonds, A-Rod, etc as cheats is preposterous in my mind. Lying about it is a whole nother ball game.

I just wish Selig would shut up about all this, I'm sure he has to say what he has thus far about potentially disciplining A-Rod, in order to show how serious it is to other players if they took anabolic steroids, but if he does perform an action, I would be disapointed.

If someone breaks a rule in the future from this point forward that has been written and carries consequences then discipline should be the answer. But I wish MLB would move on from it as well the media and focus on spring training

P.S. on the striking of the records idea: How stupid of an idea can there be? Literally ever record in baseball comes from some player who did something at some level to improve their game. Doesn't A-Rod benefit from modern medicine over someone like Ruth? of course these records are gonig to fall. Players will continue to get better...and to try and say the records belong to someone that is "good" is ridiculous. He who breaks it, breaks it. I wish Nego league baseball counted in our record books as well, and that it never existed...that Negro League players could have always played, our records would look a lot differently.

Selig: You can't change the records because you don't like the PR that comes with it.

Another BTF comment which I agree with 100%:

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Originally Posted by Kiko Sakata

What I don't get is why Selig doesn't just claim to have already cleaned up the mess. Alex Rodriguez (based on what we know right now) used steroids six years ago and the only reason we found this out was because Bud Selig pushed for steroid testing as part of the 2002 CBA. Since then, MLB has instituted regular steroid testing with the toughest penalties of any major North American sport, and steroid usage, as measured by failed drug tests, is trivially low.

I'm not arguing that steroid use has been eliminated or that Bud Selig deserves the credit for that. I just don't understand why Bud Selig isn't arguing that steroid use has been virtually eliminated and that he deserves credit for that, because, honestly, it's not that difficult or ludicrous an argument to make, and A-Rod's confession ties in perfectly to it - he claims to have stopped using steroids half a decade ago, at least in part (one can reasonably infer) because of MLB's testing and penalty procedures.

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Originally Posted by Kiko Sakata

Selig and MLB are letting the steroid story be driven by 5-10 year-old "news" without driving home the point that they've done a hell of a lot in the last 5-10 years to address this issue. Given the continued prevalence of steroid stories relating to MLB, the fact that it's not common knowledge that MLB has tougher penalties than the NFL for steroid use is inexcusable from Selig's and MLB's perspective.

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