Link. I wonder how OldFatGuy feels.
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Link. I wonder how OldFatGuy feels.
Like hopping in my car, driving to DC, finding Jim Bowden, pulling out my tallywhacker, and pissing on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by BINGLEBOP
That sum it up OK???
Or should I go into more detail (again) about why I can't for the life of me understand why he's still a GM in MLB?
And I was just telling my mother last week that because Bowden had him in Cincinnati, I figured that's who would end up with the "200 K a year" Dunn.
Man, if they don't can Bowden soon, I'm really giving up on the team after waiting 30 some years to get one back. I'd rather have no team than one that is never going to compete.
AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!
It's a good thing that puppy is gone. I might've kicked the damn dog.
Oh, and did I mention they're paying him $10 MILLION DOLLARS A FRIGGIN YEAR to strike out 200 times???? I mean, I would've gladly stepped to plate and struck out 200 times for half that money. Sign me ! ! ! And if I keep up the walking, it won't be long before I'll be able to move about as well as he can too! ! !
Come on Bowden, you could've gotten 200K's a year for way less than that ! ! !
No offense OFG, but I love it when you go off on that awesome GM of yours. It makes me go lol.
I think this is a fine signing....the only problem is now finding playing time for Nick Johnson (if he's a healthy, a huge if), Lastings Milledge, Josh Willingham, Elijah Dukes, Austin Kearns, Wily Mo Pena, and Willie Harris. :p
I think that Dunn is a far better player than you give him credit for.
According to the article, it sounds like Johnson is actively being shopped around since Dunn will be at first base, and Oakland requested his medical records.
Yeah, I'm sure many will disagree with me.
That's cool. I wouldn't have signed him for half that. In baseball games, especially in Washington Nationals baseball games, there are lots and lots and lots of instances where just putting the ball in play will get your team a run. It doesn't take a home run, it doesn't even take a base hit, just hit the ball somewhere.
And when you have someone that strikes out 1/3 of the time he comes up, then, IMO, there are going to be way more times where he fails to come through by simply putting the ball in play then times he does come through.
I'm old (school) and come from a time when 100 K's a year was considered a lot, and I can't get into 200 K's a year. The guy can't field a little bit, he can't run much better than I can, and he strikes out 200 times a year.
OK, he walks and hits 40 dingers a year.
I'll take a .280 guy with 15 HR's a year and only 75 K's a year over that anyday, and twice on Sunday. But the HR is sexy, and I'm sure many will disagree with me. It's cool. That's another great thing about baseball, it's fun to discuss.
Well, it's fun to discuss except when I'm discussing Bowden.
And the fact that that $10Million next year might've come in handy for someone other than a guy who K's 200 times a year.
Well, people would disagree with you, but not because of the home run being sexy...but because making less outs and hitting more home runs will lead to more runs being scored. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
I havent looked at his stats, but im pretty sure he has been a .400 OBP+ guy his whole career, I would take that than a guy that has a .320 OBP but puts the ball in play.
Strike outs are no different then any other out. Dunn is IMO one of the leagues most under appreciated players. He hits for immense power and walks a ton, more then making up for his k's. And in interesting fact: Juan Pierre, who regularly hits around .300, gets out more then Adam Dunn. This goes back to the most important stat in baseball: walks. I really like this deal, it shows the Nationals are trying to do SOMETHING. Like Houston said, the only problem is playing time for the influx of players. But if they can trade Johnson for some prospects, that can be a step in the right direction. As for Bowden, I actually think he is a smart GM. He acquired Dukes, Milledge, and several others in great deals, and has given the Nats some life.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
Not quite .400, but he's remarkably consistent in the OBP category (plus, you can't get more consistent than 4 consecutive years of exactly 40 homers!). His OBP's over the last 5 years:Quote:
Originally Posted by ragecage
.388
.387
.365
.386
.386
Thats still pretty good for a guy (lol im doing this again) that bats below .250 every year. Eh im too lazy to look up stats right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Do I really need to refute that??Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
Are you being serious or is this a joke?
And if he's so great, why didn't any of the other 29 clubs pick him up before now for the low, low, price of $10 mill a year???
Im sorry, but doesnt that quote seem very much Madden-esque? lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
I am serious. They are no worse then grounding out, or popping out. Most outs are not productive, and do not get a ruin in. Not too mention a K takes more pitches then a groundout, tiring the pitcher more. Only a lucky sac fly or sac grounder is better as an out, as the other forms of pouts only eat up one pitch....Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
In terms of production, it's true. How often a player strikes out gives you absolutely no indication of how good he is at producing runs.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
Because there was a giant glut of similar players, and also a lack of intelligence. That an AL team didn't sign him despite multiple teams getting pretty pedestrian offense out of the DH spot last year says more about the teams than it does Dunn.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
Making less outs and hitting more home runs than who???Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Nick Johnson (their current 1B), has a higher LIFETIME OBP than Dunn. And while he won't hit 40 a year, he can be counted on for 20 with a full season of work.
And he's a hell of lot less expensive than Dunn. And one HELLUVA lot better defensive first baseman than Dunn. (He can't run any better than Dunn though :p)
Because they have the same opinion of k's as you do..... Too many "traditionalists" running the show...Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
Adam Dunn runs better than many think. He does a lot of things that help a team win. The "productive out" thing is way, way overrated. Here's a comparison...
In 8 years he has grounded into just 57 double plays, while stealing 59 bases with just 19 caught stealing. Compare that to Juan Pierre, who does run faster, but has GIDP'ed 62 times in 9 seasons. Pierre steals more, but his stolen base percentage is the same as Dunns...75%.
Pierrre hits .300 and never strikes out, and creates 4.8 runs a game. Dunn hits .240 and leads the league in K's, but still creates 7.3 runs a game. Dunn creates 2½ runs a game more than Pierre does, and yet there are still baseball fans that think that Pierre is a better player.
Nick Johnson's OBP is not massively higher, and Dunn has much better power, which puts him ahead of Johnson. And you have Johnson's health record, well Dunn has been as healthy as a donkeyQuote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
Most players.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
But he can't be counted on for a full season of work. Hell, he can't be counted on for a half season of work.Quote:
Nick Johnson (their current 1B), has a higher LIFETIME OBP than Dunn. And while he won't hit 40 a year, he can be counted on for 20 with a full season of work.
And he's a hell of lot less expensive than Dunn. And one HELLUVA lot better defensive first baseman than Dunn. (He can't run any better than Dunn though :p)
We're talking about Nick JohnsonQuote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
Wow. Can't believe that coming from you.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Man on third, less than two outs, and you're claim is that it doesn't matter how prone a hitter is to striking out as to whether he'll get that run in??
Tell you what. Ask a manager of the team in the field if they would rather face a 200K a year guy in that situation or a 25K a year guy in that situation. And there are hundreds (though not for a single hitter) of those situations that come up in a year for the team.
Nah, Dunn is obviously awesome. That's why all the other teams were beating his door down to sign him. In fact, that's also why the Nationals had to sign him to such a long term deal too. After all, with everyone fighting for him like that, he obviously got to pick his best deal, and all players prefer long term deals.
That's a very specific situation. I'm talking about overall production.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
This guy is the best third basemen ever. His lifetime batting average is .267. He led the league in strikeouts 4 times and was in the top 3 9 times. This guy is the best player ever. 12 times, he finished 1st or 2nd in the league in strikeouts. 11 of those years came consecutively.
Men are not always on third. What if a man is on 1st, 1 out, and they ground into a double play? There goes nearly a run per game.... A strike out is far less harmless.... and it works the pitcher.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
There are also hundreds of times a year that there is a runner on 2nd with two outs and a ground ball or fly ball to the OF will lead to nothing, while a HR and other typical Adam Dunn results will lead to more runs.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
You can't look at one situation. It's about expected production over the course of the season. In terms of strictly offense, Adam Dunn is FAR better than the .325 OBP guy who doesn't strike out much that you are describing.
Now, defense and baserunning complicate things...but in terms of offense...you're mistaken on this one.
Man on first, two out...down 2 runs in the ninth.......you want Dunn, or some guy like Pierre at the plate? There are lots of examples we can create to serve our specific purposes. I think the point is overall value, though. Dunn is a lot more valuable than many think.
Old Fat Guy is getting burned.....
I'M JUST GOING TO ASSUME THAT LINK IS TO GEORGE BRETT OTHERWISE YOU AND I ARE THROUGH MISTER!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
:p
Uh oh. *Prepares for the inevitable Griffey signing by the Mariners withing the next few weeks*
The second player I linked to I was actually very surprised about. I never realized that he struck out so much for his time.
Yea, those numbers are surprising for his era.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Without looking, sounds like Schmidt and Ruth.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
YepQuote:
Originally Posted by Swampdog
Dunn is a great signing for the Nat's, obviously Teixiera would've been better, but beggars can't be choosers.
The Nationals ranked 11th in OBP and 16th in SLG% in the NL last season, at .323 and .373 respectively. Adam Dunn got on base at a .386 clip and slugged at .513. The Nationals also ranked 15th in homers with 117, while Dunn hit 40 out of the park on his own. And you can throw in the fact that his career OPS+ is 130.
How is that not an improvement?
Well, I know I'm exaggerating (intentionally), but not sure about mistaken.Quote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
Look, I know the guy is decent. But what we don't know is how much of that 40 dingers a year is a result of the ballpark he played in. Let's say he's really more like a 30 dinger a year guy in DC.
OK, plus he walks a lot. That's cool too. Those two things alone means he's worth something.
But when the Nats already have a guy at first who has already hit more than 20 in a year when they played at cavernous RFK, and who actually has a higher lifetime OBP than Dunn, AND who is by far, far, far better a first baseman, then it complicates matters. Plus his proneness to injuries complicates matters.
But taking ALL of that into account, it is my opinion that $10 million for two years (I might've got on board for 1 year, it's next year I'm concerned with) is too much for what might not be much, IF ANY, of an upgrade, all things considered. If Johnson were to stay healthy, I'd take his production (at his cost) over Dunn's.
And again, if Dunn is all of this you guys are saying, I really want to know why he wasn't signed by now.
Tex was signed. CC was signed. Lowe was signed.
The two big ones left??? Manny and Dunn. Why? Because they both have negatives. Manny being Manny and Dunn's less than .250 average and nearly 200K's a year.
And there are some downplaying the significance of how often AB's occur that I described. Well, man on third, less than two outs aren't the only AB's where an out isn't needed. Man on second no outs, and putting the ball in play is just as important. Ever heard the term get em on, move em over, bring em in?? Yeah, traditionalist. I know.
He was not signed because most GM's are idoits or had the position solved, as Housto said already.... :/Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
Says more about the teams than Dunn. There are like 10 AL teams that would immediately improve their DH spot by signing Dunn, and no team did.Quote:
And again, if Dunn is all of this you guys are saying, I really want to know why he wasn't signed by now.
All better players than Dunn.Quote:
Tex was signed. CC was signed. Lowe was signed.
Nobody's denying Dunn's flaws. I'd argue that his only real flaw is his defense, though.Quote:
The two big ones left??? Manny and Dunn. Why? Because they both have negatives. Manny being Manny and Dunn's less than .250 average and nearly 200K's a year.