Im sorry, but doesnt that quote seem very much Madden-esque? lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
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Im sorry, but doesnt that quote seem very much Madden-esque? lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
I am serious. They are no worse then grounding out, or popping out. Most outs are not productive, and do not get a ruin in. Not too mention a K takes more pitches then a groundout, tiring the pitcher more. Only a lucky sac fly or sac grounder is better as an out, as the other forms of pouts only eat up one pitch....Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
In terms of production, it's true. How often a player strikes out gives you absolutely no indication of how good he is at producing runs.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
Because there was a giant glut of similar players, and also a lack of intelligence. That an AL team didn't sign him despite multiple teams getting pretty pedestrian offense out of the DH spot last year says more about the teams than it does Dunn.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
Making less outs and hitting more home runs than who???Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Nick Johnson (their current 1B), has a higher LIFETIME OBP than Dunn. And while he won't hit 40 a year, he can be counted on for 20 with a full season of work.
And he's a hell of lot less expensive than Dunn. And one HELLUVA lot better defensive first baseman than Dunn. (He can't run any better than Dunn though :p)
Because they have the same opinion of k's as you do..... Too many "traditionalists" running the show...Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
Adam Dunn runs better than many think. He does a lot of things that help a team win. The "productive out" thing is way, way overrated. Here's a comparison...
In 8 years he has grounded into just 57 double plays, while stealing 59 bases with just 19 caught stealing. Compare that to Juan Pierre, who does run faster, but has GIDP'ed 62 times in 9 seasons. Pierre steals more, but his stolen base percentage is the same as Dunns...75%.
Pierrre hits .300 and never strikes out, and creates 4.8 runs a game. Dunn hits .240 and leads the league in K's, but still creates 7.3 runs a game. Dunn creates 2½ runs a game more than Pierre does, and yet there are still baseball fans that think that Pierre is a better player.
Nick Johnson's OBP is not massively higher, and Dunn has much better power, which puts him ahead of Johnson. And you have Johnson's health record, well Dunn has been as healthy as a donkeyQuote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
Most players.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
But he can't be counted on for a full season of work. Hell, he can't be counted on for a half season of work.Quote:
Nick Johnson (their current 1B), has a higher LIFETIME OBP than Dunn. And while he won't hit 40 a year, he can be counted on for 20 with a full season of work.
And he's a hell of lot less expensive than Dunn. And one HELLUVA lot better defensive first baseman than Dunn. (He can't run any better than Dunn though :p)
We're talking about Nick JohnsonQuote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
Wow. Can't believe that coming from you.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Man on third, less than two outs, and you're claim is that it doesn't matter how prone a hitter is to striking out as to whether he'll get that run in??
Tell you what. Ask a manager of the team in the field if they would rather face a 200K a year guy in that situation or a 25K a year guy in that situation. And there are hundreds (though not for a single hitter) of those situations that come up in a year for the team.
Nah, Dunn is obviously awesome. That's why all the other teams were beating his door down to sign him. In fact, that's also why the Nationals had to sign him to such a long term deal too. After all, with everyone fighting for him like that, he obviously got to pick his best deal, and all players prefer long term deals.
That's a very specific situation. I'm talking about overall production.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
This guy is the best third basemen ever. His lifetime batting average is .267. He led the league in strikeouts 4 times and was in the top 3 9 times. This guy is the best player ever. 12 times, he finished 1st or 2nd in the league in strikeouts. 11 of those years came consecutively.
Men are not always on third. What if a man is on 1st, 1 out, and they ground into a double play? There goes nearly a run per game.... A strike out is far less harmless.... and it works the pitcher.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
There are also hundreds of times a year that there is a runner on 2nd with two outs and a ground ball or fly ball to the OF will lead to nothing, while a HR and other typical Adam Dunn results will lead to more runs.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
You can't look at one situation. It's about expected production over the course of the season. In terms of strictly offense, Adam Dunn is FAR better than the .325 OBP guy who doesn't strike out much that you are describing.
Now, defense and baserunning complicate things...but in terms of offense...you're mistaken on this one.
Man on first, two out...down 2 runs in the ninth.......you want Dunn, or some guy like Pierre at the plate? There are lots of examples we can create to serve our specific purposes. I think the point is overall value, though. Dunn is a lot more valuable than many think.
Old Fat Guy is getting burned.....