http://www.comcast.net/articles/spor...guez-Steroids/
My respect level for him just went way up. The truth will do wonders for your image.
(Borrowed jeffys A-roid with assumed permission.).....he he
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http://www.comcast.net/articles/spor...guez-Steroids/
My respect level for him just went way up. The truth will do wonders for your image.
(Borrowed jeffys A-roid with assumed permission.).....he he
Good for him. Im wondering though because he is hated so much that it wont matter that he spoke the truth. But I respect him a lot more than I did now that he really was quite candid with what he was saying.
Yeah, he's still a Yankee, so I have to hate him. I just hate him more respectfully now.
Very well done to admit. Those who have admitted have done much better PR wise then those who have denied. (Pettite vs. McGwire)
I think this is good, I am happy he didn't lie, but one thing about A-rod, he usually tells the truth. If you actually listen to what he says, he is pretty intelligent, and with this, it shows he might have good character.
Well he actually did lie before in the Katie Couric interview.Quote:
Originally Posted by boomboom
But nice for him to admit it after evidence was starting to come out.
I forgot about that....
Do you guys actually believe he stopped taking them in 03????
Yes. Why risk getting caught again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Sox Fan 734
agreed... he already had his $$$. I find it hard to believe he started ONLY when he already had the contract tho... big question... wasnt palmero on Texas around that time, and putting up monster #'s... like the best in his career???Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavelb1
after careful deliberation
interesting that the years are at the TOP of his game when him and A-Rod were together...Code:Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
1986 21 CHC NL 22 73 9 18 4 0 3 12 1 1 4 6 .247 .295 .425 91 31 0 0 0 1 4
1987 22 CHC NL 84 221 32 61 15 1 14 30 2 2 20 26 .276 .336 .543 126 120 0 2 1 1 4
1988 23 CHC NL 152 580 75 178 41 5 8 53 12 2 38 34 .307 .349 .436 121 253 2 6 6 3 11 AS
1989 24 TEX AL 156 559 76 154 23 4 8 64 4 3 63 48 .275 .354 .374 104 209 2 2 3 6 18
1990 25 TEX AL 154 598 72 191 35 6 14 89 3 3 40 59 .319 .361 .468 131 280 2 8 6 3 24 MVP-14
1991 26 TEX AL 159 631 115 203 49 3 26 88 4 3 68 72 .322 .389 .532 155 336 2 7 10 6 17 MVP-19,AS
1992 27 TEX AL 159 608 84 163 27 4 22 85 2 3 72 83 .268 .352 .434 123 264 5 6 8 10 10
1993 28 TEX AL 160 597 124 176 40 2 37 105 22 3 73 85 .295 .371 .554 150 331 2 9 22 5 8 MVP-8
1994 29 BAL AL 111 436 82 139 32 0 23 76 7 3 54 63 .319 .392 .550 136 240 0 6 1 2 11 MVP-16
1995 30 BAL AL 143 554 89 172 30 2 39 104 3 1 62 65 .310 .380 .583 145 323 0 5 5 3 12 MVP-11
1996 31 BAL AL 162 626 110 181 40 2 39 142 8 0 95 96 .289 .381 .546 132 342 0 8 12 3 9 MVP-6
1997 32 BAL AL 158 614 95 156 24 2 38 110 5 2 67 109 .254 .329 .485 113 298 0 6 6 5 14 MVP-13
1998 33 BAL AL 162 619 98 183 36 1 43 121 11 7 79 91 .296 .379 .565 144 350 0 4 8 7 14 SS,MVP-18,AS
1999 34 TEX AL 158 565 96 183 30 1 47 148 2 4 97 69 .324 .420 .630 159 356 0 9 14 3 12 SS,MVP-5,AS
2000 35 TEX AL 158 565 102 163 29 3 39 120 2 1 103 77 .288 .397 .558 137 315 0 7 17 3 14
2001 36 TEX AL 160 600 98 164 33 0 47 123 1 1 101 90 .273 .381 .563 141 338 0 6 8 7 8 MVP-14
2002 37 TEX AL 155 546 99 149 34 0 43 105 2 0 104 94 .273 .391 .571 146 312 0 7 16 6 10
2003 38 TEX AL 154 561 92 146 21 2 38 112 2 0 84 77 .260 .359 .508 117 285 0 4 9 5 7
2004 39 BAL AL 154 550 68 142 29 0 23 88 2 1 86 61 .258 .359 .436 108 240 0 9 15 6 15
2005 40 BAL AL 110 369 47 98 13 0 18 60 2 0 43 43 .266 .339 .447 108 165 0 8 4 2 9
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
20 Seasons 10472 3020 38 1835 40 1348 .288 .371 .515 132 15 119 171 87 231
2831 1663 585 569 97 1353 5388
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
162 Game Avg 599 95 173 33 2 33 105 6 2 77 77 .288 .371 .515 132 308 1 7 10 5 13
Career High 162 631 124 203 49 6 47 148 22 7 104 109 .324 .420 .630 159 356 5 9 22 10 24
Except for, you know, 1993-2000.
hmmm... is Palmero one of the links here???
Rafael Palmeiro played with Jose Canseco for the 1993 Texas Rangers
Rafael Palmeiro played with Armando Benitez for the 1997 Baltimore Orioles
Armando Benitez played with Jason Giambi for the 2003 New York Yankees
Rafael Palmeiro played with Dennis Eckersley for the 1986 Chicago Cubs
Dennis Eckersley played with Jason Giambi for the 1995 Oakland Athletics
(before you all say im crazy... Canseco said this started 25 years ago right??? Until we stop seeing things he wrote in his book PROVEN.... We may want to believe him)
Rafael Palmeiro played with Jose Canseco for the 1993 Texas Rangers
Jose Canseco played with Jason Giambi for the 1997 Oakland Athletics
Rafael Palmeiro played with Juan Gonzalez for the 1990 Texas Rangers
Rafael Palmeiro played with Kevin Brown for the 1992 Texas Rangers
Kevin Brown played with Paul Lo Duca for the 2001 Los Angeles Dodgers
Rafael Palmeiro played with Ken Caminiti for the 2001 Texas Rangers
There is 1 name that keep coming up but it could just be because he played for so many teams... Jesse Orrosco... I know he did play a LONG time and still did pretty damn well in his 40's (which may mean absolutely NOTHING)
What I was trying to prove is that when a player is generaly starting to fade he did not... and ironicly when A-Rod took the roids... was when palmero was putting up the highest slugging #'s of his career aside from the #'s he put up when he was in his mid to late 20's. Don't you all find that a little odd?Quote:
Originally Posted by BINGLEBOP
He either did stop taking them, or has been taking undetectable steroids. I find the former more probable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Sox Fan 734
Palmeiro's best years came in 1991, 1993, and 1999, all when A-Rod was not on his team. You can't simply look at his home run totals because:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet
a) The entire offensive environment was higher.
b) His second stint in Texas came in a different ballpark, a hitter's park, than his first stint when Texas's park was a pitcher's park.
Tom House has admitted to taking steroids in the late 60's and early 70's, and claims that MANY, MANY players were experimenting with them at that time. He put the number at "6 or 7 pitchers per team." Baseball players have been using steroids since steroids have been invented - and they've been attempting to use drugs to enhance performance since the game began.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet
Not at all, once you adjust for the other factors such as league environment and park factors.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet
Count me as one who isn't very impressed with this.
I'm going with my gut here: I don't think he's telling the truth. He's obviously lied in the past, he didn't admit it until confronted with evidence, and I find the admission that he only took them with Texas and stopped as soon as he joined the Yankees to be quite disingenuous. A bit too convenient, given his current circumstances.
Put it this way: he says he took them in Texas to try and "justify the contract". Well, he's still the highest-paid player ever, and now he's on the biggest stage in all of baseball, and possibly in all of sport. Wouldn't that tend to imply that he has more reason to take them now, not less?
While I always do respect someone who comes clean and can fess up to a mistake in their past, I also seem to remember ARod making statements about how he never had and never would use anything like STEROIDS in the past. Note to athletes...if you are and/or were using performance enhancers, don't make public comments about how wrong it would be for you to use them. It just makes you look like a gigantic douche when you're inevitably exposed.
Not once he factors in the fact that there is now strict testing policies and punishments. The risk/reward equation has changed since 2003.Quote:
Originally Posted by oriole^
also, i doubt that he only did it in the texas years, aren't the Mariners one of the teams with the most positive test out of all Franchises? (including minors?)
I fully believe that many are using new designer drugs that are probably not technically "illegal" in the eyes of the govt. and are undetectable with the current testing program.
Lest not forget....HGH is not something commonly used to "heal quicker" as Pettitte put it. Its used more often to "maintain" the effects of roids and/or other PED's and to help "mask" them from detection. There is alot of suspicion that those who are purchasing HGH are probably doing it to make their roid use undetectable in a test, as HGH is currently undetectable nobody will know.
Most doctor reviews i've seen claim they've never heard of HGH alone helping anyone heal quicker.
Couple of things. The government has blanket drug definition laws. I can't create a drug that mimics the effects of MDMA and say 'the drug i made hasn't been outlawed'. I suspect the same is true of steroids.
And I think HGH can be detected via blood work.
The first paragraph is interesting. I'm not exactly sure how they'd enforce that but regardless, i'd say if they are "designing" drugs that it would have to be illegal anyhow as i'm sure there is some FDA disclosure and trial requirements. Its hard to prove though until they know what it is and find a way to test for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavelb1
As for the HGH, i thought there was a blood test that is very controversial and unreliable but i honestly haven't followed it too closely. There is no blood testing in baseball presently so its moot.
I've never heard of HGH being used to mask steroid use. I know that HGH is undetectable in everything but blood tests, but that would simply mean that the test won't show the HGH, not that the HGH would hide the steroids. This is the first time I'm hearing that.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
Considering that one of the primary legal uses of HGH is to help stimulate the immune system, and that some of its effects include calcium retention, strengthening bones, and the like, I don't think it's out of the question that players used HGH to help them overcome injury. Hell, even if it doesn't do anything, that doesn't mean that players didn't try it for the sole reason of hoping that it helps them heal.
I don't know. I do want to know what Jose Canseco has to say. In his book where he talks about introducing A-Rod to a steroid dealer, he says that the first time A-Rod came to his house was in the mid/late 90's, and A-Rod just asked if "steroids **** you up". Then he says that the next time A-Rod came to his house, he asked about the steroid dealer. He gives no indication as to what year that next time was. If Canseco comes out and says that that conversation happening in, say, winter 2000-2001, I would absolutely believe confidently A-Rod's story that he began using in 2001.Quote:
Originally Posted by boomboom
I don't think it's changed more than a trip from Dallas to New York would change things...and I'm using the same criteria that A-Rod himself mentioned ("I had to justify my contract").Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
I think it's also foolish not to assume that there are undetectable PED's now, which of course lowers the risk greatly.
Intelligence agencies such as the CIA have a practice they call a "limited hangout". The scenario is that one of your secret (and possibly illegal) projects is about to be introduced to widespread public scrutiny, and there's no real way around it...so you go out in front of the Congressional committee or whichever and you admit part of it. You expose one operative or one facility or one incident or whatever, and all the investigators focus in on that, and later all of the repercussions will be based on that one relatively unimportant thing. So you take some heat, you're exposed for a short while, but ultimately, you aren't in terrible trouble and, with a bit of an adjustment, you can keep doing what you've been doing.
This feels like that. I think he got caught and, given the possibility of what could happen, admitted to the least damaging thing he could, with hopes that the whole thing would blow over and they wouldn't catch anything else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oriole^
That's very possible, indeed. Or, it's also very possible he's telling the truth.
Sort of. As I understand it, this was essentially the case for androstenedione during the late 1990's: it was a legal steroid, even though there were laws against steroids on the books. The government had to reclassify it as "anabolic" in order to ban it, although it isn't really anabolic in nature. I don't know whether that reclassification is enough to make the law as "blanket" as you might think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavelb1
By masking, what I mean is the will use HGH in lieu of steroids to maintain their strength and weight during the season. This way they only take steroids during the offseason when there is less testing and their whereabouts can be suspect (away on vacation, i'll take it when i get back..etc). After an offseason full of roid use, they use HGH during the season to maintain their form and pass the more frequent and available drug tests.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
I've seen many articles that claim HGH alone won't do anything. I've seen some that claim that any effects take many months. I really haven't seen any that claims you can take it to recover from an injury quicker.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/02/sp...l/02drugs.html