A-Roids?

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Originally Posted by StreetMedic

Kowboy, I think you might be reading too much into this.

A-Rod (and, for the record, I can't stand him, either, BTW) is a member of the MLBPA. As such, he may simply have been instructed by the union not to say anything yet. The matter seems far from closed, so for now, this is probably just prudent "damage control", until they decide what the "official" position is going to be.

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Nobody can stop him from saying I didn't do it. He may not be able to discuss specifics, but they can't stop him from saying "I'm innocent." If they have proof that he tested positive for steroids and he doesn't deny it when he gets asked about it, I'd say that's a pretty strong indication that he did it. I'm not making any judgement on him as a person..but the fact it, I'd say the chance that he used steroids is near 100%. It is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Slingshot

Excuse me, but what the hell does it matter if the effect of the steroids were big or not? It's still cheating. If you go to a test unprepared and have written out cheat notes all over the place, compared to if you've just brought one with you, you're still gonna flunk either way if you get caught. An advantage of let's say 2% over your opponent as opposed to 10% is still an unfair advantage and equals cheating in my book.

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I'm not saying it isn't cheating.

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Originally Posted by ragecage

Well amphetamines doesnt anger me as much as steroids. I guess because steroids helps prevents injuries from occurring while amphetamines just gives you energy to play

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Do steroids help prevent injuries from occurring? People say that, but then on the same hand, say that steroids are to blame for players breaking down early. So, which is it?

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But your right though, everyone has cheated, but look at it like this, McGwire was essentially done playing around 93-94 or so because of injuries, and steroids helped prolong his career to enable him to do the things he did.

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We don't know that steroids helped prolong his career. We also don't know when he began taking steroids. If we're to believe everything that Jose Canseco has said, McGwire began taking steroids far before his injury problems.

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Originally Posted by KowboyKoop

Nobody can stop him from saying I didn't do it. He may not be able to discuss specifics, but they can't stop him from saying "I'm innocent."

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Nobody's saying they can stop him (whatever punitive mechanisms may exist in the union's own bylaws, notwithstanding). But if you're in a jam, and your union representation and their lawyers say, "don't say anything yet", you probably don't. You choose not to, based on what your representation recommends.

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Originally Posted by KowboyKoop

If they have proof that he tested positive for steroids and he doesn't deny it when he gets asked about it, I'd say that's a pretty strong indication that he did it.

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I'd say the proof is a stronger indication that he did it than his lack of a denial, no?

There's a whole host of reasons why someone "pleads the fifth", or is kept off the witness stand by a defense attorney. Actual guilt is but one of those reasons.

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Originally Posted by KowboyKoop

I'd say the chance that he used steroids is near 100%.

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You are likely correct about this. But the fact that he's keeping mum doesn't make me any more suspicious than I would otherwise be.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

I'm not saying it isn't cheating.


Do steroids help prevent injuries from occurring? People say that, but then on the same hand, say that steroids are to blame for players breaking down early. So, which is it?


We don't know that steroids helped prolong his career. We also don't know when he began taking steroids. If we're to believe everything that Jose Canseco has said, McGwire began taking steroids far before his injury problems.

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From what Ive heard, steroids can do both depending on the dosages and legnth of use. Take too much or too long and eventually your whole body starts to break down, take the right amount and your body grows stronger for a limited time. But prolonged use has nothing but ill effects.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Do steroids help prevent injuries from occurring? People say that, but then on the same hand, say that steroids are to blame for players breaking down early. So, which is it?

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Most people make that arguement for HGH, not steroids.

Steroids =/= HGH


All this said, there is scant, at best, scientific evidence proving that monitored, properly cycled steroid use by fully developed men is anywhere near as detrimental as the media makes it seem. Again, monitored use w/ proper cycling, not just taking them to take them & get bigger.

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Originally Posted by ragecage

From what Ive heard, steroids can do both depending on the dosages and legnth of use. Take too much or too long and eventually your whole body starts to break down, take the right amount and your body grows stronger for a limited time. But prolonged use has nothing but ill effects.

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It also great depends on what steroids you are taking .. Steroids like say, Cortizone, are widely accepted in sports, While ones like Valtrex are used but people on a regular basis.

Steroids are prescribed to children suffer allergic reaction regularly, I personally took 3 different steriods due to a viral infection in my ear.

There are 100's of steriods that serve alot of purposes, some help heal, some strengthen, some bulk up, some relieve pain.

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Originally Posted by StreetMedic

Nobody's saying they can stop him (whatever punitive mechanisms may exist in the union's own bylaws, notwithstanding). But if you're in a jam, and your union representation and their lawyers say, "don't say anything yet", you probably don't. You choose not to, based on what your representation recommends.



I'd say the proof is a stronger indication that he did it than his lack of a denial, no?

There's a whole host of reasons why someone "pleads the fifth", or is kept off the witness stand by a defense attorney. Actual guilt is but one of those reasons.



You are likely correct about this. But the fact that he's keeping mum doesn't make me any more suspicious than I would otherwise be.

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No, the fact that he is keeping quiet doens't mean he is guilty. The fact that he has tested positive for steroids and hasn't denied it means he is, to me, almost without a doubt guilty of it....to some degree.

You "plead the fifth" when discussing specifics. If you are innocent of something, you don't say no comment when asked if you are innocent. I don't buy that for a second.

Steroids have left a stain on the game that for me at least is as bad as '94. Part of my love for the game is its history, for me the players tainted by this brush have diminished both themselves and the game. I cannot look at Bonds, Clemens et al and not discount what they have done. I am saddened for players we think of as 'lesser' in this era who played clean.

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Originally Posted by acetoolguy

Steroids have left a stain on the game that for me at least is as bad as '94. Part of my love for the game is its history, for me the players tainted by this brush have diminished both themselves and the game. I cannot look at Bonds, Clemens et al and not discount what they have done. I am saddened for players we think of as 'lesser' in this era who played clean.

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Bonds and Clemens are assholes. If they had the moral fiber of say, Roberto Clemente *, then it wouldn't matter to me a whit. Just as-since I really have little to no antipathy to Arod-it really hasn't changed anything, except to say "Look we just need to accept that just about everyone did PED's and move on"

*Ironically an MLB special on Clemente has been pre-empted by this mess.

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Originally Posted by ragecage

You know, im probably one of the few guys not a Yankees fan that actually respected A-Rod. I think he goes through too much with the media and a ton of it is undeserved.

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I'm in that category as well.

and now, just like with Bonds, people will say put an astrix by his numbers....people drive me insane with these notions.

Everything from the Chi sox scandal, to willie Mays to Bonds....players cheat in some way to get an advantage. As long as there are no consequences, do you really expect the players to not take them? You would in their shoes if your career, livelyhood, and success depended on you succeeding at a sport. You would find some way to improve....and for many players this made a lot of sense to do....not trying to defend them, simply explaining it....don't judge someone until you have walked a mile in their shoes.

I guess Guitar Hero knew what it was doing when it chose Phelps and Arod for it's commercials.

Rob Neyer on this, with a solid excerpt from the Joe Torre book about how much of a relentless worker A-Rod is.

The final paragraph:

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I hope Alex Rodriguez didn't cheat. If we do find out that he cheated, I will wish that he hadn't. But whatever happens, I'm not going to change my opinion that he's a great baseball player. Like many of the greatest players, he'll do whatever it takes to be the best player he can be. For a stretch of five or 10 years -- and yes, perhaps even today still -- being the best player could have meant cheating. Maybe the cheaters were wrong; that's the direction in which I lean, probably because I've got a streak of the moralist in me. But I will not sit idly while great athletes looking for an edge -- not all that different from the many generations before them -- are demonized by the high priests of baseball opinion. I will not.

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Originally Posted by Jeffy25

for p.r. reasons he has to say, talk to the union....he is smart to not say anything to the press. that is the only thing he should say.

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Sorry but if I am innocent of ANY wrongdoing in the matter, I'm screaming that out loud from the highest mountain.

Here's what this proves...that everyone who wondered if baseball management and Bud Selig was just as big an ignorant jackass as we all thought they were was completely right. Of course these c*nt f*ckbags KNEW this was going on...there's no way they couldn't know, not involving this many big name players over this period of time.

You wanna clean up baseball? DEFINITELY players should be held accountable...but that's NOT where you start. You start by tossing every single member of baseball's executive branch out on the street...every single one of the morons who let all of this crap go on and on and on, who let all of this get to this point in the first place whilst chasing yet another truckload of money.

Congratulations, Bud Selig...with every name that's mentioned, it simply reinforces the fact that you are the most pathetic jerkoff to EVER commission a league.