Manny to St. Louis

Re: Manny to St. Louis

Quote:

Originally Posted by dickay

I think St. Louis would love Manny, so long as they make the playoffs. He'll greatly help the cause but if they don't make the playoffs of course many will say it wasn't worth it.

As far as balance...i'd say Manny hits right handers a heck of alot better than any other left handed bat St. Louis would currently put in his stead, that argument really holds no water IMHO.

I understand. I just see a need for plenty of balance, not saying Manny wouldn't offer that. Just what I believe. I want a very balanced lineup. If you added Manny and put him in left, and Ludwick in right. This is how it woudl look.

1. A. Kennedy 2B (bc without Shumaker we have no leadoff man)
2. R. Ludwick RF (I think he needs to be lower in the lineup, however, he would get pitches to hit in front of Albert)
3. A. Pujols 1B
4. M. Ramirez LF
5. R. Ankiel CF (even though he would be an ideal RF)
6. T. Glaus 3B
7. K. Greene SS
8. Y. Molina C
9. Pitcher (but Tony like them batting 8th)

Problem is there are only two guys that can hit from the left side in this lineup. Kennedy and Ankiel. And niether are really ideal. with the available budget, the Cardinals would be better off not spending it on another hitter that will create more of a logjam in our outfield. An outfield that is waiting on Colby Rasmus and would need a place for someone like Skip who has definetly earned the right to start.

I just don't see this as the proper choice for the Birdos.
6.

Re: Manny to St. Louis

That lineup just has a lot of right handed hitters who are primarily known has power hitters and not contact hitters....other then Molina IMO

Re: Manny to St. Louis

You guys do know that Manny can absolutely crush both RHPs and LHPs, right?? Not wanting Manny b/c he's right-handed is insanity. He's one of the best hitters in the game, period.

There may be other reasons to not want him..cost, bad clubhouse guy, maybe with a big contract his performance would suffer..I don't know, but lineup balance isn't one of them.

Re: Manny to St. Louis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffy25

I understand. I just see a need for plenty of balance, not saying Manny wouldn't offer that. Just what I believe. I want a very balanced lineup. If you added Manny and put him in left, and Ludwick in right. This is how it woudl look.

1. A. Kennedy 2B (bc without Shumaker we have no leadoff man)
2. R. Ludwick RF (I think he needs to be lower in the lineup, however, he would get pitches to hit in front of Albert)
3. A. Pujols 1B
4. M. Ramirez LF
5. R. Ankiel CF (even though he would be an ideal RF)
6. T. Glaus 3B
7. K. Greene SS
8. Y. Molina C
9. Pitcher (but Tony like them batting 8th)

Problem is there are only two guys that can hit from the left side in this lineup. Kennedy and Ankiel. And niether are really ideal. with the available budget, the Cardinals would be better off not spending it on another hitter that will create more of a logjam in our outfield. An outfield that is waiting on Colby Rasmus and would need a place for someone like Skip who has definetly earned the right to start.

I just don't see this as the proper choice for the Birdos.
6.

I don't understand the logic however. The purpose of 'balance' is because LH hitters supposedly perform better against RH pitchers and visa-versa. But Manny hits RH pitchers much better than most LH hitters, so he's by default better than most LH hitters in his slot. Especially if those you're discussing taking his spot are Colby Rasmus or Skip Schumaker.

I'm just saying, his salary....his taking the spot of a young stud prospect....those are fair arguments. Him not being LH however makes no sense to me as a valid argument.

Re: Manny to St. Louis

Quote:

Originally Posted by dickay

its that dumb attitude that cost the mets a trip to the postseason last year. the mets EASILY could have had Manny, heck the dodgers got him for a song. But they listened to this type of attitude and watched the Dodgers and Phillies again in October.

The Mets will most certainly do the same this October unless they sign Manny. I really see him as the only FA still out there that will help their team overcome the many weaknesses they have and make the playoffs.

agreed. I tell you what... id take him on my Braves in an instant... Manny being manny... being a jerk, laying down will STILL get you a .300 BA 35+ HR 120+ RBI .400 OBP. I dont CARE he is a nutcase... he is pure WIN. If it took a 3 year deal and it was 20 per year... id swoop in in an instant. make a 4th year vest with ab's in year 2 and 3 = 850 or something like that. he wins mvp in 3rd year his contract is guarenteed in 4th at 25 or something like that. Sheffield laid down too yet teams kept signing him, and trading for him

Re: Manny to St. Louis

Manny
2006

Code:

I Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF ROE GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS BAbip sOPS+ tOPS+ Split +-+------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+------------+ vs RHP as RH 122 384 317 101 18 1 25 67 61 6 75 0 0 6 5 11 0 1 .319 .422 .618 1.040 .341 178 96 vs RHP as RH vs LHP as RH 74 174 132 43 9 0 10 35 39 10 27 1 0 2 0 2 0 0 .326 .477 .621 1.098 .340 178 109 vs LHP as RH

2007

Code:

I Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF ROE GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS BAbip sOPS+ tOPS+ Split +-+------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+------------+ vs RHP as RH 125 408 355 99 25 1 11 66 38 8 66 7 0 8 2 17 0 0 .279 .353 .448 .801 .308 120 82 vs RHP as RH vs LHP as RH 63 161 128 44 8 0 9 22 33 5 26 0 0 0 1 4 0 0 .344 .478 .617 1.095 .376 174 148 vs LHP as RH

2008

Code:

I Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF ROE GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS BAbip sOPS+ tOPS+ Split +-+------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+------------+ vs RHP as RH 150 503 419 142 29 0 32 100 69 14 104 11 0 4 5 15 1 0 .339 .441 .637 1.079 .383 197 108 vs RHP as RH vs LHP as RH 66 151 133 41 7 1 5 21 18 10 20 0 0 0 1 2 2 0 .308 .391 .489 .879 .333 127 72 vs LHP as RH

ill take those #'s on my team thats for damn sure

Re: Manny to St. Louis

as for manny tanking it with the Sox...

Code:

I Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF ROE GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS BAbip sOPS+ tOPS+ Split +-+------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+------------+ 1st Half 90 87 380 328 58 96 18 1 18 60 44 5 82 8 0 0 3 10 1 0 .293 .389 .518 .908 .342 144 77 1st Half 2nd Half 63 63 274 224 44 87 18 0 19 61 43 19 42 3 0 4 3 7 2 0 .388 .485 .723 1.209 .407 214 133 2nd Half

ill take those #'s anyway

Re: Manny to St. Louis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffy25

Too many power righties in the lineup with no balance.

"Too many power righties" doesn't apply to Pujols or Manny. Career splits for both:

Pujols vs. L: .347/.450/.640, OPS of 1.089
Pujols vs. R: .330/.417/.619, OPS of 1.035
Manny vs. L: .340/.446/.628, OPS of 1.074
Manny vs. R: .306/.398/.582, OPS of .980

They both destroy lefties but still totally CRUSH righties. You'd be hard-pressed to find any (available) left-handed bats that will be more useful against right-handed pitching. Both Dunn and Abreu, for example, pale in comparison against righties.

You can't talk about these guys like they're both Pat Burrell.

Also, I just noticed this has been pointed out several times already, as I posted this before reading through the entire thread.

Quote:

Manny would be too expensive and not worth half of what he will get.

I kind of agree with the first part, but not the second part. You'd end up with the greatest 1-2 punch in all of baseball, even better than ARod-Tex.

Quote:

He is a great hitter, would make everyone else better. But I truley hope this doesn't happen.

It won't happen. The Cardinals have already been very clear that they will not be spending any money.

Re: Manny to St. Louis

Quote:

Originally Posted by justanewguy

"Too many power righties" doesn't apply to Pujols or Manny. Career splits for both:

Pujols vs. L: .347/.450/.640, OPS of 1.089
Pujols vs. R: .330/.417/.619, OPS of 1.035
Manny vs. L: .340/.446/.628, OPS of 1.074
Manny vs. R: .306/.398/.582, OPS of .980

They both destroy lefties but still totally CRUSH righties. You'd be hard-pressed to find any (available) left-handed bats that will be more useful against right-handed pitching. Both Dunn and Abreu, for example, pale in comparison against righties.

Dunn vs L: .235/.359/.464 OPS .833
Dunn vs R: .252/.392/.539 OPS .931

Arbeu vs L: .280/.382/.404 OPS .776
Abreu vs R: .308/.417/.534 OPS .951

So, yeah, Manny is better than both vs righties

Re: Manny to St. Louis

I dont want Manny i like this opening day lineup
1.Skip SchuMaker LF
2.Rick Ankiel CF
3.Albert Pujols 1B
4.Ryan Ludwick RF
5.David Freese 3B (until Glaus is healthy)
6.Khalile Greene SS
7.Yadier Molina C
8.Adam Wainwright P
9.Adam Kennedy 2B

Re: Manny to St. Louis

Quote:

Originally Posted by dickay

its that dumb attitude that cost the mets a trip to the postseason last year. the mets EASILY could have had Manny, heck the dodgers got him for a song. But they listened to this type of attitude and watched the Dodgers and Phillies again in October.

The Mets will most certainly do the same this October unless they sign Manny. I really see him as the only FA still out there that will help their team overcome the many weaknesses they have and make the playoffs.

Well said. The Mets have gigantic holes in the corner outfield spots. Manny would solve that perfectly. The only other teams that have a similar NEED for Manny are the Angels and Dodgers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffy25

That lineup just has a lot of right handed hitters who are primarily known has power hitters and not contact hitters....other then Molina IMO

So?

Re: Manny to St. Louis

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthJaker

I dont want Manny i like this opening day lineup
1.Skip SchuMaker LF
2.Rick Ankiel CF
3.Albert Pujols 1B
4.Ryan Ludwick RF
5.David Freese 3B (until Glaus is healthy)
6.Khalile Greene SS
7.Yadier Molina C
8.Adam Wainwright P
9.Adam Kennedy 2B

I'm happy with that lineup as well, a true leadoff hitter would be nice though, and let skip bat second. But I am happy with it. We'll see how Kennedy does

and to answer HGM's question of so?
I know, a surplus of a good thing, is a great thing. and you can never have enough power hitters on your team. I am just not a real fan of the long ball in baseball. I tend to look more at small ball, and I guess I support my Cardinals doing what I think...of course that isn't how it works. That's just what I wish, I want their style in the 80's to come back honestly.

Re: Manny to St. Louis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffy25

I'm happy with that lineup as well, a true leadoff hitter would be nice though, and let skip bat second. But I am happy with it. We'll see how Kennedy does

and to answer HGM's question of so?
I know, a surplus of a good thing, is a great thing. and you can never have enough power hitters on your team. I am just not a real fan of the long ball in baseball. I tend to look more at small ball, and I guess I support my Cardinals doing what I think...of course that isn't how it works. That's just what I wish, I want their style in the 80's to come back honestly.

Yeah, but wouldn't you like your team to win? Manny helps teams win, simple as that. Now..with the money he's asking for....I can see not wanting to devote that much cash to him......

Re: Manny to St. Louis

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Well said. The Mets have gigantic holes in the corner outfield spots. Manny would solve that perfectly. The only other teams that have a similar NEED for Manny are the Angels and Dodgers.

and Atlanta

Re: Manny to St. Louis

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Well said. The Mets have gigantic holes in the corner outfield spots. Manny would solve that perfectly. The only other teams that have a similar NEED for Manny are the Angels and Dodgers.

And the Giants, of course. With what looks like one of baseball's best rotations, Manny's bat could put them over the top and probably make them the favorites in that division. Without that kind of bat, they're only in contention because they reside in a terrible division.

2009's NL West winner could theoretically win just by having a pulse.