Buys out two years of FA. More details to come.
Now this is a Royals transaction actually worth discussing. I'll look forward to reading about what a bad move this is.
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Buys out two years of FA. More details to come.
Now this is a Royals transaction actually worth discussing. I'll look forward to reading about what a bad move this is.
anyone that wrote that TAHT was a bad move should have their fingers removed. NOW the question is... do you think it is so they can get more if they trade him?
Don't worry, somebody will bash the move and say that since we can't even win 65 games next year..we should've just traded him and focused on rebuilding for the next five years.
No, I don't see him as a trade possibility for the forseeable future. I think Moore believes the division is weak enough (and it is) that the Royals can contend if enough things go right. I think a lot would have to go our way...but I can see an outside possibility..so I think Moore will keep everyone around mostly and try to contend this year and the next couple.
In the weekend state of the division... I agree. Th eonly problem is... Detroit is going to be much better next year aznd I think CLEveland will as well. No CC hurts but I dont think cripples them. the WSox I think played better than they were. I must admit id like to see the Royals compete but i dont think quite yet... tho it wont be too far off. I thihk a trade of Grenke midseason this year or next would net teh team a BOATLOAD of prospects.
A deal like the Santana deal could benefit this team greatly.
Great deal!
This could be the beginning of securing a fantastic young corps of players. Greinke, Gordon, Aviles...
What many people don't realize is that the Royals are a really solid team all around, and could make a push this season at a division that may be up for grabs.
I can't recall any case where a team extended a player's contract in an effort to trade him. Locking a player up long term signals a commitment to him for the time being.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet
Is it fair to say you're overreacting just a bit? :oQuote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
Cleveland is likely to be better than they were in 2008. Detroit, though?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet
Probably, and they haven't exactly improved over the offseason.Quote:
the WSox I think played better than they were.
Greinke is a young pitcher with a sterling scouting report and results to match it. He's not a guy you trade for prospects for the future. He's the guy you keep to build around for the future.Quote:
I thihk a trade of Grenke midseason this year or next would net teh team a BOATLOAD of prospects.
Detroit's pitching looks AWFUL heading into next season....and Cleveland's doesn't look much better. Detroit may be better than last year...but I don't see them being a contender. Verlander was bad last year, Bonderman was hurt and who knows with him, Edwin Jackson isn't that good.....question marks everywhere else. Same with Cleveland, I think..outside of Lee. Lots of question marks. Things could go well for either team...but I don't think it should be expected. Their offenses will have to carry them for the most part..I think..and that very well could happen. I think it's a wide open division..no team looks great, but no team looks downright awful.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanewguy
We don't need to lock up Aviles. By the time he's a FA, he'll be like..32 or 33.
I think a lot would have to break out way to contend for the division...but who knows. I think the Twins are the favorite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Not really. Just wait...someone will criticize it. If not..then I'm wrong, but I highly doubt it.
The Twins are clearly the favorite
Detroit has a defensive infield that can actually get in front of a ball, so that'll help the pitchers a bit
I just mean having security in the infield and the front of the rotation without it being a revolving door... not necessarily talking contracts, just referring to a young group of players that will be around for several years.Quote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
The White Sox played over their heads last season, and the Twins did too, to a lesser degree. There's no reason the Royals couldn't do the same in '09. I'd agree the Twins are the favorites as of now, but as you said above, there's no clearcut runaway favorite here, and no team looks bad. I wouldn't pick the Royals, but they're an ever-improving team in a chaotic division.
Ah, got ya..misunderstood you on that one. You're right....a nice core is possibly emerging.Quote:
Originally Posted by justanewguy
I definitely agree that the White Sox shouldn't be nearly as good in '09..but I said that about them before the '08 season too..so who knows. I think the Twins are clearly the favorite...but yeah..just five middling/average teams...anything could happen.
You guys keep saying that the White Sox played over their heads last season or played way beyond their talent, but I honestly disagree. They have talent. Yeah, they haven't done much (yet) this offseason, but they have basically their core group of guys returning.
Floyd wasn't a fluke, Danks wasn't a fluke, Buehrle is Buehrle, Alexi wasn't a fluke, and they still have Dye, A.J. (who is really good with the pitching staff), Jenks, Konerko (a fluke season), and a respectable bullpen. I feel that they are the favorites as they have more pieces than the Twins and arguably the best "all-around" team in the division.
If anybody played way over their heads last season it was the Twins. The Tigers have no pitching and the Indians are confusing. I don't know what direction they are trying to go in. The Royals have a respectable young pitching staff (at least the first few) and a nice group of young guys on offense.
I truly believe that the White Sox are the favorites, but the rest of the division is a toss up.
Can anybody show me different?
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Originally Posted by justanewguy
Clarify?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucher34
Gavin Floyd was a fluke. 4.78 FIP last year. xFIP of 4.61 last year. Expect his ERA to go back to the mid to upper 4s next year. That doesn't mean he sucks, but he's not as good as he was last year. If Alexei Ramirez doesn't learn to draw a walk..he'll be exposed too. Losing Vazquez doesn't help. The ChiSox don't suck...but all they've done is get older and their pitching should be worse than last year. I don't think they'll tank...but I don't think they are the favorites in the division.
I'd pretty much echo what KowboyKoop just said about the Sox. Their pitching staff can't possibly be as good as it was last season. It just can't, especially losing Vazquez, and with Floyd and Danks probably not capable of doing any better. Floyd probably won't repeat his performance, Danks seems more likely to do so, but can't really improve.
The Sox still have holes in CF and the middle of the infield, question marks at 3B, and the core of their offense is yet one more year older.
I follow the Sox, go to several of their games, and watch a great deal of their games on TV. They did play over their heads in '08 and they had a lot of luck. They don't exactly project to be world beaters in '09. The Twins look significantly better. I'd put the Sox in second.
Why can't they better?Quote:
Originally Posted by bucher34
Anybody with a brain won't criticize this move. It's an absolutely fantastic one.Quote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
How can you be so sure? His peripheral stats point to yes, he was a fluke. His FIP was 4.77, a full run above his actual ERA. He's very homer-prone.Quote:
Originally Posted by bucher34
This is true. Note the fantastic 3.44 FIP, right in line with his ERA.Quote:
Danks wasn't a fluke
Nor is he very good.Quote:
Alexi wasn't a fluke
Chicago has Buerhle and Danks as "sure things" in the rotation. Floyd is very likely to regress. After that its a bunch of question marks. Quentin is good, but likely will regress as well. They have a giant question mark in center field. Dye is fine. Their infield is FULL of question marks. Konerko will likely bounce back some, and then, right now its...Getz, Ramirez, and Betemit. Hardly awe-inspiring.
I think Cleveland is in the best position right now. They have a shaky pitching staff, but way less question marks in the field. If I had to predict right now, I'd go with an order of Cleveland - Minnesota - Chicago - Kansas City - Detroit, but with them all very bunched up.
How?Quote:
Originally Posted by justanewguy
I don't really think their IS a clear cut favorite for the division
A more solid pitching staff heading into '09, a better bullpen, offensive players that are young and coming into or already in their primes, and the 1-2 of Mauer and Morneau is probably better than any 1-2 the Sox could claim.Quote:
Originally Posted by bucher34
It's just an opinion, I don't understand the need to grill us over it.
For what it's worth, I'll be rooting for the Sox.
4 years / 38 mil is what is being reported.
There isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet
Rotoworld's take, and I'll leave out the "Royals bash" to spare you:Quote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
Quote:
Most thought Greinke would test free agency when eligible in two years. He would have been just 27, and with the way he's improving, he could have been in line for one of the biggest contracts ever given out to a pitcher. Terms of this deal weren't revealed, but $35 million would seem to be appropriate.
Don't worry, I've already read about our "disastrous" offseason which has prevented us from.....uh, improving..no, that's not it...stopped us from pursuing other FAs? No...uh, not that....stopped us from locking up our own players? Uh......no, not that...what's the disastrous part?Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Every move might not be a good one...but it's been far from "disastrous."
Well, I haven't liked any moves the Royals have made this offseason, save this Greinke signing and I was indifferent on the Crisp acquisition. Given that, in my opinion, every move they've made has been a poor one, that certainly can qualify as "disastrous", even if it doesn't necessarily harm the franchise's future.
Disastrous is an exaggeration, but the point is simply that the Royals haven't made (m)any GOOD moves.
[QUOTE=HoustonGM;1244017]
Disastrous is an exaggeration, QUOTE]
This.
Trading Jermaine Dye for Neifi Perez, THAT is disastrous. Trading Beltran for essentially nothing in return (two mediocre players and one useless player) when he was a very in demand commodity....that's disastrous. Letting Greinke get away for nothing more than a draft pick..that would be disastrous. Making a couple financially inefficient moves......far from a disaster. It's easy to recognize that there are no ill effects of these moves and the team improves going into '09. Far from a disastrous offseason.
Not a bad deal
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/...name=Neyer_Rob
Rob Neyer's take. It's such a good move..yet Neyer can't muster anything more than a couple weak, backhanded compliments. Still does more to criticize and whine about the Royals than anything else. It must be really, really painful for this Royals "fan" to have to suffer through us making a great move. I'm sure he'll be looking to change the subject and bash the Royals for some other minor move as quickly as possible, just to get back to normal.
I also enjoy that the guys at fangraphs.com have written nothing about this yet. It seemed like articles were up ripping the Royals almost immediately after the Royals made other moves, like Bloomquist and Jacobs...but god forbid they say something good about the Royals locking up Greinke when they could be writing about Russ Ohlendorf or whatever crap they got up now. Funny.
Neyer's a lifelong Royal fan that seems to have been greatly disenfranchised by the long string of sucky play AND sucky management. But I do think you have a bit of a "pity complex" when you're looking and complaining about "bashing" from a fellow fan of the RoyalsQuote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
New article about Joba Chamberlain on fangraphs......still not a word about Greinke. Amazing that we sign a utility player..instant analysis to rip us. Trade a fragile reliever away...let the criticizing begin..almost instantly. Lock up a potential ace until 2012, an undeniably fantastic move....not a peep. Guess that's just another exaggeration of mine that strangely seems to true....
How much can really be said about an extension on a guy like Greinke? The Bloomquist analysis may have been more relevant because it's addressing a baseball oddity (and a player whose fan appeal exceeds his abilities), and Joba is relevant because he had only pitched in 37 professional games (just over half in the majors) prior to last season, and a lot of eyes are on him. The issue of how many innings he's going to toss next year is HUGE. Like it or not, the Yankee rotation is the biggest non-Manny story of the offseason so far.
I don't think there's necessarily any anti-KC bias or blind eye effect going on here. Fangraphs isn't exactly like ESPN... and plenty of extensions have been signed this offseason without too much fanfare or in-depth analysis.
Beyond fangraphs, it doesn't look like it's getting much coverage though.
FanGraphs has had an article on basically every extension this offseason, from Jayson Werth to Nick Markakis. It'd be a surprise to not see a Greinke one, although I'd hardly care that it didn't go up "immediately."
If you're going to criticize literally every single move the Royals make (and yes..literally every move we have made has been ripped all over the place), when we do something right..I expect more than just Rob Neyer delivering one backhanded compliment.Quote:
Originally Posted by justanewguy
All I know is, all the other moves we've made..there has been immediate feedback from multiple sources about how stupid they were. Many forums, many blogs, ESPN, tv...everywhere. We lock up Greinke...Neyer gives us one backhanded compliment and there hasn't been one word from any of those other sources..and they have had all day to do so.
No, I don't think everyone gets together and discusses a big conspiracy against the Royals..but it's pretty obvious that it's just fashionable to bash the Royals for everything and just ignore them when we do something well. Yeah, I talk about it a lot..but nothing I say is inaccurate.
Rany, a diehard Royals fan, allowed this move to completely change the tone of his opinion of Dayton Moore.Quote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
FanGraphs on the Coco Crisp trade. Conclusion, "I give the edge to Kansas City in this one."Quote:
All I know is, all the other moves we've made..there has been immediate feedback from multiple sources about how stupid they were. Many forums, many blogs, ESPN, tv...everywhere. We lock up Greinke...Neyer gives us one backhanded compliment and there hasn't been one word from any of those other sources..and they have had all day to do so.
Each move is evaluated on its own merits. Whether you think it's fair or not, the Royals moves this offseason have NOT been good, up until this point. The only move that can really be described as a "win" for Kansas City is the Crisp trade. Have the moves been DETRIMENTAL? No, probably not...but not good, and when a move is made that isn't good, it's criticized, and rightfully so in my opinion. The good moves are praised.Quote:
No, I don't think everyone gets together and discusses a big conspiracy against the Royals..but it's pretty obvious that it's just fashionable to bash the Royals for everything and just ignore them when we do something well. Yeah, I talk about it a lot..but nothing I say is inaccurate.
The FanGraphs article on the Nick Markakis extension was put up a few days after the reports of the agreement came out. I think you're being a bit premature in your reaction to the "lack" of articles on the Greinke extension.
I guess you might be right. After all, Ramon Troncoso had an article written about him not long ago, and he didn't even sign anything. All he did was start some games in the Dominican winter league.
But I wouldn't worry too much about it. Everything will play itself out on the field, and I'm sure they'll get around to the article eventually.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Obviously I exaggerate when I say that "no" words have been said and other terms of that nature. The point remains the same.
I haven't had a chance to read this thread yet, but you gotta be kidding. What are the Royals thinking? What a terrible signing, Greinke?? Zach Greinke long term?? Are you kidding me?? Why dont' they go get Victor Zambrano as well while they're at it.
Poor management is what puts these teams in the position they are. Heck, might as well let Bloomquist pitch.
Sarcasm concerning Greinke I hope?
Well, here you go KowboyKoop. As I suspected.