90s All-Decade Team (you decide)

Don't know if there are any threads of this, but the 90s had some great players, however, the decade also has a negative label. I grew up watching 90s baseball and I'm sure many of you on this forum did as well so I thought I'd do sort of a fun, time-wasting, boredom-curing activity.

These are most likely the most notable offensive players of the decade of the 90s. You don't have to use these if you don't want (meaning you can use whoever else comes to mind), but make an all decade team for the offense (with DH) and 4 or 5 bench spots.

Barry Bonds
Frank Thomas
Jeff Bagwell
Mike Piazza
Ken Griffey Jr.
Craig Biggio
Roberto Alomar
Barry Larkin
Mark McGwire
Cal Ripken Jr.
Albert Belle
Sammy Sosa
Juan Gonzalez
Jose Canseco
Rafael Palmeiro
Fred McGriff
Matt Williams
Ivan Rodriguez
Terry Steinbach
Tony Gwynn
Edgar Martinez
Mark Grace
Chuck Knoblauch
Robin Ventura
Mo Vaughn
David Justice
Kenny Lofton
Larry Walker
Raul Mondesi
Bernie Williams
Jay Buhner
John Olerud
Andres Galarraga
Cecil Fielder
Tino Martinez
Paul O'Neill
Gary Sheffield

I'll get around to it later. :)

C Piazza
1B Frank Thomas
2B Biggio
3B Chipper Jones
SS Larkin
LF Bonds
CF Griffey (I mean COME ON!!!) (tho lofton has a special place in my heart for some reason still nothing compared to "The Kid"
RF Gwynn (and its not even close)
DH I guess Pure DH Edgar gets it :D Tho Fat Mo DH'd for a few I think

Backup catcher by FAR Pudge
Crime Dog
Oleroud
Lofton
Sheffield
Roberto Alomar



Thomas because he was just so FEARED, tho Bagwell could have been in the mix with

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Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet

C Piazza
1B Frank Thomas
2B Biggio
3B Chipper Jones
SS Ripken I guess but I have not the foggiest :D
LF Bonds
CF Griffey (I mean COME ON!!!) (tho lofton has a special place in my heart for some reason still nothing compared to "The Kid"
RF Gwynn (and its not even close)
DH I guess Pure DH Edgar gets it :D Tho Fat Mo DH'd for a few I think

Thomas because he was just so FEARED, tho Bagwell could have been in the mix with

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You can add 4 or 5 bench spots.

C: Mike Piazza
1B: Mark Grace
2B: Roberto Alomar
3B: Matt Williams
SS: Barry Larkin
LF: Barry Bonds
CF: Ken Griffey Jr.
RF: Tony Gwynn
DH: Frank Thomas

Bench:
C: Pudge Rodriguez
1B: Jeff Bagwell
2B/OF: Craig Biggio
3B/SS: Cal Ripken Jr.
OF: Albert Belle
OF/DH: Juan Gonzalez

ok updated

after looking Alomar is a HAIR behind Biggio and I just HAD to put larkin in ahead of Cal

I thought abour williams but (and im sure homerisem played into it) I had to Put Chipper ahead of him. he just brought more to the table.

Some other young guns of the 90s (played in basically the latter half of the 90s and after) -- Manny, A-Rod, Jeter, Nomar, Ray Durham

Some of the "old guns" of the 90s (played in basically the early half of the 90s and before) -- Kirby Puckett, Joe Carter, Ozzie Smith, Ryne Sandberg

C - Ivan Rodriguez

I pick him over Piazza is because though Pudge didnt have the power numbers over Piazza, but did bat .298 or better from 1994-1999, also won the MVP in '99 with awesome numbers. (.332 AVG 35 HR 113 RBI), and with those great offensive numbers he won gold gloves from 1992-1999 which that right there makes him the best Catcher in the 90's. Piazza didnt win a gold glove in the 90's and had only one MVP award. Pudge only has one as well, but look at all those gold gloves. :)

1B - Frank Thomas

This is tough because there are so many quality first baseman. Theres McGwire, Bagwell, and Rafeal Palmeiro, but none of these guys really took the league by storm like Frank Thomas did. He also stayed healthy in most of the 90's with the exception of 1999. Big Frank batted over .300 every year in the 90's with the exception of 1998. Hit over 30 homers in 6 of those years and also drove in over 100 runs in 8 of those seasons. Perhaps though the most eyepopping stat is he had a .400+ OBP every year except 1998 and an OBP of .450+ in 6 seasons.

2B - Roberto Alomar

Craig Biggio is really the only player who can even come close to Alomar in the 90's. Its really not even close though. Alomar won gold gloves from 91-96, and 98 and 99. Alomar also batted over .300 in 7 of the 10 years in the 90's.

3B - Matt Williams/Wade Boggs Push

I couldnt pick one or the other. Williams has 4 GG, Boggs only has 2. Both players were often injured during the 98 and 99 season, but the numbers both put up were extraordinary. Williams was raw power but only batted .300 in the 90's 3 times to Boggs 7. Also 2 of those seasons Williams hit over .300 he only played 76 Games (1995) and 102 Games (1996), Boggs also missed plenty of time when he batted .300 in 1999. You really couldnt go wrong with either one of these guys imo.

SS - Barry Larkin

Nobody comes close.

LF - Barry Bonds

Is this even debatable?

CF - Ken Griffey Jr.

Pretty Easy pick as well. Kirby Puckett could be right there if his career didnt end early in 1995.

RF - Larry Walker

There was a lot of good players like Vlad, Winfield, Gwynn, with the exception of Tony Gwynn, a lot of the great RF's started or ended their respective careers in the mid 90's. Larry Walker however was the best RF that played the entire decade. What he has what Gwynn doesnt is power and Glove, winning 5 GG to Gwynns 2 in the 90's and Walker also won the 1997 MVP and Gwynn has never won MVP.

I'm watching some MLB Network right now with Hot Stove, Prime 9, and then a HoF show, but I'm looking forward to really digging into this myself. I grew up in the 90's (more so the late 90's) so these are the players that I really grew up around. I've recently downloaded Dan Rosenheck's own WARP numbers (a member at Baseball Think Factory) so I'm going to dig deep into his WARP, BP's WARP and VORP, and the rest of the statistics to make my choices. :)

I tried putting some deep thought into my list, I really tried to include players that played the majority of the 90's, hope it descent. :)

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

I'm watching some MLB Network right now with Hot Stove, Prime 9, and then a HoF show, but I'm looking forward to really digging into this myself. I grew up in the 90's (more so the late 90's) so these are the players that I really grew up around. I've recently downloaded Dan Rosenheck's own WARP numbers (a member at Baseball Think Factory) so I'm going to dig deep into his WARP, BP's WARP and VORP, and the rest of the statistics to make my choices. :)

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I am looking forward to your list.

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Originally Posted by ragecage

I really tried to include players that played the majority of the 90's, hope it descent.

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I'm going to as well. For me, I'm thinking of it as "Which players at each position gave their teams the most value over the 1990-1999 span?"

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

I'm watching some MLB Network right now with Hot Stove, Prime 9, and then a HoF show, but I'm looking forward to really digging into this myself. I grew up in the 90's (more so the late 90's) so these are the players that I really grew up around. I've recently downloaded Dan Rosenheck's own WARP numbers (a member at Baseball Think Factory) so I'm going to dig deep into his WARP, BP's WARP and VORP, and the rest of the statistics to make my choices. :)

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I'm going to make an even more comprehensive list. And unlike HGM, I'll be using Rob Neyer's VLORP ZoneX Score Factor as well for my list.

:D

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Originally Posted by metsguy234

I'm going to make an even more comprehensive list. And unlike HGM, I'll be using Rob Neyer's VLORP ZoneX Score Factor as well for my list.

:D

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Your list will be the players who led their position in batting average in 1996.

That nonsense is so overplayed that it's not even the least bit funny anymore.

You can make a roster (non pitcher), with up to 15 guys (DH and bench). I see your starters, but who would you back some of them up with? So far only two of us have done that, myself included. It'd be nice to see who you think would be the starters versus the reserves.

Catcher - Mike Piazza

It's, obviously, between Mike Piazza and Ivan Rodriguez. I give the nod to Piazza. Rodriguez was easily the better all-around defender, but Piazza's edge on offense was astronomical. Piazza's main fault defensively was his arm, which was terrible. Pudge's arm, on the other hand, was his main strength. Piazza's received good marks on blocking the plate/pitches in the dirt, and handling pitchers, from numerous sources I've read. An article in this year's Hardball Times Annual breaks down how Piazza had a positive effect on the pitchers he catched for. All told, I don't think Piazza defensively is nearly as bad as he's usually made out to be, and his ridiculous offensive edge over Rodriguez makes him my pick.

First Base - Jeff Bagwell

I looked at Bagwell, Frank Thomas, Rafael Palmeiro, and Fred McGriff. Thomas was easily the best hitter of the pack, and him and Bagwell were far ahead of both Palmeiro and McGriff. I went with Bagwell though for two reasons. 1) Thomas spent roughly 33% of the time as the designated hitter. 2) When in the field, Bagwell was vastly superior defensively. The offensive edge Thomas has isn't enough to make up for those two faults.

Second Base - Craig Biggio

You can't go wrong here with either Biggio or Roberto Alomar. They're really neck and neck. I gave the edge to Biggio because he played more, pure and simple.

Shortstop - Barry Larkin

I see no other contender.

Third Base - Robin Ventura

I looked at Ventura, Matt Williams, Ken Caminiti, and Wade Boggs. The 90's were a period without any real standout third basemen. Chipper Jones got started halfway through the decade. Ventura, I feel, is pretty underrated. Baseball Prospectus's WARP has him at 86.5, 10 wins ahead of Matt Williams at 75.1. Dan Rosenheck's WARP, though, which uses a higher replacement level and incorporates play-by-play defensive metrics (which WARP is in the process of incorporating), sees the edge just very slight, with Ventura at 44.9 and Williams at 44.7. I give the slight edge to Ventura.

Left Field - Barry Bonds

Center Field - Ken Griffey, Jr.

No competition at either spot.

Right Field - Larry Walker

I looked at Walker, Paul O'Neill, Sammy Sosa, and Tony Gwynn. Paul O'Neill, like Ventura, is another guy that I think is often undervalued. Walker, though, I think is the clear "winner" amongst this group, but I have O'Neill second.

Real quick, off the top of my head, with runners-up in parentheses, and using 5 SPs, 3 RPs and 1 swingman:

C: Mike Piazza (Ivan Rodriguez)
1B: Frank Thomas (Mark McGwire)
2B: Robby Alomar (Craig Biggio)
SS: Cal Ripken (Barry Larkin)
3B: Matt Williams (Robin Ventura)
OF: Barry Bonds, Ken Griffey Jr., Sammy Sosa (Larry Walker, Tony Gwynn, Rickey Henderson)

SP: Greg Maddux, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, Tom Glavine, Mike Mussina
RP: John Franco, John Wetteland, Rob Nen
SP/RP: Pedro Martinez

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Originally Posted by justanewguy

SP: Greg Maddux, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, Tom Glavine, Mike Mussina
RP: John Franco, John Wetteland, Rob Nen
SP/RP: Pedro Martinez

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I'm wondering, how come you gave Mussina the #5 over Pedro? Was it becuase of playing time?

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Originally Posted by 200tang

I'm wondering, how come you gave Mussina the #5 over Pedro? Was it becuase of playing time?

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Pretty much. Same reason I had a hard time picking between Ripken and Larkin. Ripken had just enough playing time to count it. That and the name. Henderson is on my list for the same reason.

Also, I'm a Dodger fan, and I fondly remember his time in middle relief.

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Originally Posted by justanewguy

Pretty much. And because I'm a Dodger fan...

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fair enough :)

C - Pudge - Rarest of rare. A 5-tool catcher. Compare Piazza to him on offense, pts Piazza. Compare defense, baserunning, arm, and calling the game, it is all Rodriguez thru the 90s. Also, compare playoffs. Hands down the Pudge.

1b- Jeff Bagwell - I like Thomas, but Bagwell beats him on defense.

2b - Roberto Alomar - During the 90s, no one better.

Larkin - Ripken is a baseball God though and dont forget Omar Vizquel.

3b - Matt Williams - Power in a power position.

LF- Bonds

CF - Griffey

Paul O'Neill - This is where I go south on opinion. Walker and Gwynn were both great. O'Neill was the unofficial captain/ spark plug that led to 4 WS wins.

Pitcher - Too many to name. I would say Clemens and Maddux though with Cone a close 3rd.

I guess if we are doing pitchers as well.....

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Originally Posted by bucher34

C: Mike Piazza
1B: Mark Grace
2B: Roberto Alomar
3B: Matt Williams
SS: Barry Larkin
LF: Barry Bonds
CF: Ken Griffey Jr.
RF: Tony Gwynn
DH: Frank Thomas

Bench:
C: Pudge Rodriguez
1B: Jeff Bagwell
2B/OF: Craig Biggio
3B/SS: Cal Ripken Jr.
OF: Albert Belle
OF/DH: Juan Gonzalez

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SP:
1: Roger Clemens
2: Greg Maddux
3: Randy Johnson
4: John Smoltz
5: Tom Glavine
6: David Cone

Bullpen:
Dennis Eckersley (majority of 3 decades, wow)
John Franco
John Wetteland
Rod Beck
Trevor Hoffman

C: Mike Piazza

He was a great hitter, and during the '90s was better then Pudge, even with the fielding factored

1B: Jeff Bagwell

Like Houston said, he played more 1st then Thomas, narrowly beating him

2B: Roberto Alomar

He and Biggio are both at the top, and Alomar wins out due to his added speed.

3B: Matt Williams beats out Ventura

SS: Barry Larkin without a doubt

LF: Bonds, easily

CF: Ken Griffey

RF: Larry Walker, an underrated and very dominant player

DH: Edgar Martinez

SP: Maddux
SP: Clemens
SP: Johnson
SP: Smoltz
SP: Glavine

RP: Eckersley
RP: Rod Beck
RP: Todd Worrell
RP: John Franco

RSR - I can understand Bagwell ahead of Thomas at 1B - but is there a good reason for Edgar ahead of Thomas at DH?

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Originally Posted by kenny1234

RSR - I can understand Bagwell ahead of Thomas at 1B - but is there a good reason for Edgar ahead of Thomas at DH?

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Only if you focus purely on what they did as a DH and not incorporate Thomas's time at first base, which I think is okay to do at non-DH positions (ie. focus only on time at the given position), but DH is a different beast.

C Mike Piazza--for total career, I think I might put Rodriguez ahead, but looking only at the 90s, I'll go with Piazza.


1B Jeff Bagwell--a much better all-around player than Thomas, though Thomas was probably a better pure hitter.

2B Roberto Alomar--similar to the situation at catcher, Biggio was better if you look at their entire careers, but Alomar was the 2nd baseman of the decade.

3B Robin Ventura--tough call, because a lot of the best 3rd basemen of the 90s were only good for half the decade.

SS Barry Larkin--Ripken was better overall, but didn't have any really good years after 91.

LF Barry Bonds--I still detest him, but I'll give him his due.

CF Ken Griffey, Jr--no contest

RF Larry Walker--As I pointed out in the old "best player to wear the uniform" thread (I think that was the title), he'd be an easier pick if he'd stayed healthier.

DH Edgar Martinez--gets the nod over Molitor because Molitor ran out of steam before the end of the decade, and over Thomas because Thomas really didn't DH that much until 2000.

Bench Ivan Rodriguez, Craig Biggio, Ricky Henderson, Omar Vizquel, Albert Belle

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Originally Posted by dps

DH Edgar Martinez--gets the nod over Molitor because Molitor ran out of steam before the end of the decade, and over Thomas because Thomas really didn't DH that much until 2000.

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Batting .305 doesnt constitute as running out of steam in his 2nd to last season. I dont disagree with Martinez being there, but I wanted to point out that Molitor was great until his final year, which at 42 what he did isnt all that bad. ;)

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Originally Posted by ragecage

Batting .305 doesnt constitute as running out of steam in his 2nd to last season. I dont disagree with Martinez being there, but I wanted to point out that Molitor was great until his final year, which at 42 what he did isnt all that bad. ;)

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His raw numbers may not look like he ran out of steam, but that's because as he ran out of steam, the offensive level of the league skyrocketed. From 1987-1994, his OPS+ ranged from 125 to 161. From 1995-1998, he was at 101, 116, 104, 86. For a DH, that's not good.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Only if you focus purely on what they did as a DH and not incorporate Thomas's time at first base, which I think is okay to do at non-DH positions (ie. focus only on time at the given position), but DH is a different beast.

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I considered Thomas, and I know that only focusing on DHs is not that smart (Most DHs only spend a part of their career at DH). I decided just to go ahead and do it this way(Not sure why), though if I did look at players who had spent fairchunks of time at other positions, Thomas would have won hands down.