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Mark Prior, Andruw Jones, and Hank Blalock dropping from his list in just 3 years shows how little value there is in predicting HoF cases that early in a player's career.
And, I'm assuming that the list is in some sort of order of likelihood? How is Evan Longoria above Beltran, Halladay, Sizmeore, Berkman, Sabathia, and Webb? And yes, Jose Reyes deserves to be on that list if you're going to predict players out this far. And Roy Oswalt should not have dropped off
Of those guys, I'd vote:
Greg Maddux, Alex Rodriguez, Randy Johnson, Ken Griffey, Derek Jeter, Tom Glavine, Manny Ramirez, Pedro Martinez, Mariano Rivera, Albert Pujols (even though he needs a couple more seasons to even be eligible), Ivan Rodriguez, Frank Thomas, John Smoltz, Chipper Jones, Jeff Kent, Mike Mussina, Jim Thome, Curt Schilling, Gary Sheffield
Ichiro, Vladimir Guerrero, Johan Santana, and Carlos Delgado I can't say yes or no yet. My guess is that I'm going to say yes for Ichiro, Vlad, and Johan. With Delgado, it really depends on how much more he has in him. If he retired today, I'd lean towards no.
There's only two players I wouldn't vote for on that list - Trevor Hoffman and Omar Vizquel.
If every one of those players in that poll hung up their cleats and quit today, I'd vote for:
Maddux, Griffey, Rodriguez, Johnson, Pujols, Rivera, Glavine, Ramirez, Smoltz, Martinez, Thomas, Hoffman, Jones, Mussina, Thome, Kent, Sheffield, Delgado
Not Ivan Rodriguez?
Not Jeter? Look, I think Jeter is the most overrated player in the game today, but Delgado, Hoffman, Mussina, Vizquel, and Glavine over him? Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
One thing to note about metsguy is that he has an extreme hatred of Yankees, except for Mike Mussina.Quote:
Originally Posted by wahoosamC
Omar Vizquel over Derek Jeter though is indefensible.
He gets on my maybe list.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Jeter is what I call a "buffet player". He has a little bit of everything, but isn't particularly notable at any facet of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Maybe for what? :confused: His career is basically over. He's far past his peak. What else is there to assess?Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
You know, I always knew that the players that were good at everything but not great at anything were underrated while the players that were great at one or two things and average or worse at the rest were overrated....but I've never actually seen a person actually say that being good at everything but not notable at any one thing is bad.....until now.Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
It's not bad, it's just not as good at having one distinct area of talent and being above average at everything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
But it is better than having one distinct area of talent and sucking at everything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
But Derek Jeter isn't very good at, well, anything. I can't vote for a player like that when there are so many better options around.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Which is......REALLY 'EFFIN GOOD!Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
And you've also previously claimed that you'd vote for a nearly identical player , Alan Trammell.
Like Omar Vizquel, right? You know, the guy that was good at one thing and sucked at everything else?Quote:
I can't vote for a player like that when there are so many better options around.
You're severely undervaluing the value in being very good everywhere and not having a weakness. It's why Carlos Beltran is such a great player, and also why he is so underrated, because, like you, people underrate players that aren't amazing anywhere, but have no weaknesses. As I said, I just thought that was a matter of circumstance and never saw anybody actually spell it out like you have.
Also, metsguy, one other question. How in the world do you vote for Omar Vizquel, but not think Ozzie Smith belongs?
Typo.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
And Trammell was a great fielder, and above average everywhere else. Jeter, again, is not good at anything really.