Is it unfair that the 11-win Pats are staying home?

The Pats are 11-5. But they are staying home and the 8-8 Chargers are playing a home game in the first round.

Is this fair?

Sure, I've been a Pats fan my whole life. But I'd be asking the same question for any team. 11 wins. A .688 winning percentage. That's the baseball equivalent of 111 wins.

I can't find the last time an NFL team won 11 games and didn't make the playoffs. It hasn't happened since the NFL went to 8 divisions. And it's probably never happened since the advent of the Wild Card.

Does this system make sense?

To me the top 6 teams regardless should make it....

It has happened once Clay. The 1985 Broncos finished 11-5 and didn't make the playoffs.

I disagree.

If we make it the top 6 in each conference then

1) there is no reason to have divisions
2) it'll be soon enough that the 7th place team in one conference complains that they had a better record than 5 playoff teams in the other conference THEN we'll ask if it's necessary to pick the same number of teams from each conference...

I like the 8 division format. I think it's good for the game, and I think it keeps things open for more teams (and therefore, more fans).

The only way I'd be in favor of a "more fair" system is if a team with a losing record made the playoffs. However, I'd probably be in favor of changing the home field structure so that a team like San Diego isn't hosting a team like Indy.

A lot of things in the NFL aren't "fair." For example, scheduling isn't "fair." Some tiebreakers aren't "fair."

The Patriots couldn't win their division, so they had two other slots to get into. They couldn't accomplish that either, so they're simply not playoff-worthy.

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Originally Posted by RickD

To me the top 6 teams regardless should make it....

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Exactly what I'd expect from a Yankee fan. You could have won the AL Central last year -- maybe you should have built that new stadium in Oklahoma.

:)

(from a Pats fan)

Lame? Yeah, probably.

"Unfair?" Not so much, methinks.

Everyone (from the owners, to the league officials, to the players, to the fans) know the "ground rules" going in. Sometimes you catch a break, other times you get "jammed".

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Originally Posted by StreetMedic

Everyone (from the owners, to the league officials, to the players, to the fans) know the "ground rules" going in. Sometimes you catch a break, other times you get "jammed".

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I agree with the "ground rules" standard. It's fair if everyone knows the parameters and tie-breakers ahead of time. It's the reason I don't like the BCS. It's not that I want to see a bunch of college playoff games. I'd just like to see a system where the teams know ahead of time what they need to do to win, and not rely on the whims of a bunch of voters.

Go Chargers!

If this happening is so rare, than why do we need to overhaul the current format just to accomodate one team...even though the overhaul won't change a thing for that team and thus will probably be completely useless? If it's so rare..then I'd say just don't worry about a fluke. If this happens every other year..that's when you make a change.

10/12/08

Chargers 30, Patriots 10

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Originally Posted by Red Sox Fan 734

Go Chargers!

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The only 4-8 team to ever make the playoffs...

That said, I'm rooting for them. IMHO, they are a more likeable team than the Colts or Ravens (or Jets or Broncos for that matter).

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Originally Posted by Clay Dreslough

Exactly what I'd expect from a Yankee fan. You could have won the AL Central last year -- maybe you should have built that new stadium in Oklahoma.

:)

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We wouldn't have them.

"Splunge"?

Monty Python :D

Nice pull, Clay!

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Originally Posted by Clay Dreslough

The only 4-8 team to ever make the playoffs...

That said, I'm rooting for them. IMHO, they are a more likeable team than the Colts or Ravens (or Jets or Broncos for that matter).

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you really like San Diego more than the colts and ravens? Personally I just don't like Philip Rivers and I think that does it for me haha. He's not a bad player or anything I just dont like him a lot or anything :-\

Personally I'm rooting for Indy and the Ravens.

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Originally Posted by 200tang

you really like San Diego more than the colts and ravens? Personally I just don't like Philip Rivers and I think that does it for me haha. He's not a bad player or anything I just dont like him a lot or anything :-\

Personally I'm rooting for Indy and the Ravens.

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Yeah, I'm not a big Rivers fan either.

As for the Pats, it is unfortunate, but the system is fine the way it is now. They would change the home field advantage rules if they change anything.

This is what happens with a divisional set-up.

Im a Pats fan myself, but its just the way it is. We should of beat Miami instead of letting that Wildcat run all over us. Plain and simple.

Its unfair...in a sense. And its not unfair in a more practical way. As noted in another thread, there have been far worse injustices in the past in this category.

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Originally Posted by beerchaser

10/12/08

Chargers 30, Patriots 10

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Using this logic, the Jets should have made the playoffs overt he Titans.

What's not fair is to title a poll thread completely the opposite way that the poll itself is worded, which made me vote "no" instead of "yes."

I saw the thread "Is it unfair that the 11-win Pats are staying home?" clicked it and answered No. It's certainly not unfair; the rules have always allowed it even if it doesn't happen often. Then I noticed that the question was twisted the other way: "Is it OK that a team with 11 wins misses the playoffs"

A completely unfair tactic! Hanging chad!

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Originally Posted by JayC

What's not fair is to title a poll thread completely the opposite way that the poll itself is worded, which made me vote "no" instead of "yes."

I saw the thread "Is it unfair that the 11-win Pats are staying home?" clicked it and answered No. It's certainly not unfair; the rules have always allowed it even if it doesn't happen often. Then I noticed that the question was twisted the other way: "Is it OK that a team with 11 wins misses the playoffs"

A completely unfair tactic! Hanging chad!

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Haha, I didn't even read the question, assuming it was the same as the one asked by the thread title :eek:

This action by Clay makes me feel like a little part of me has died inside :(

I'm sure it explains the number of "no" votes, but lack of support for that position in the thread itself.

And in a thread about the Patriots... I mean, it's like the kind of thing Belichick himself would do!

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Originally Posted by JayC

A completely unfair tactic! Hanging chad!

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lol.

It wasn't intentional. I guess I could fix it by changing the thread title but then that would hide the fact that the votes already cast were tainted by the wording of the question.

Clay "Diebold" Dreslough

How can you say it is unfair? It happens in the MLB, NHL, and whatever else you want to look at more often than the NFL (I can't say the NBA because they do the top 8 from each conference, HOWEVER division winners do get home-court so it is similar in that aspect). It is a rare occasion when this extreme type of situation happens in the NFL, but that's just how the cards were played. The Chargers and Cardinals took advantage of their weak divisions and the Patriots couldn't overcome their strong division and a strong group of wildcard teams - so be it, good luck next year.

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Originally Posted by Clay Dreslough

the votes already cast were tainted

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Recount!

I really didn't think it was intentional... it's a good idea, though. Might try it myself sometime.

:D

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Originally Posted by bucher34

How can you say it is unfair? It happens in the MLB, NHL, and whatever else you want to look at more often than the NFL (I can't say the NBA because they do the top 8 from each conference, HOWEVER division winners do get home-court so it is similar in that aspect). It is a rare occasion when this extreme type of situation happens in the NFL, but that's just how the cards were played. The Chargers and Cardinals took advantage of their weak divisions and the Patriots couldn't overcome their strong division and a strong group of wildcard teams - so be it, good luck next year.

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Its "unfair" in the sense that the best teams are supposed to make the playoffs, in all sports. Because it occurs in other sports doesn't make it less unfair.

On the other hand, it's "fair" because, to quote someone, "Its just how things is". Other posters have noted that, going into the season, every team knows the rules. In theory, you have as much chance of being left out by virtue of being in a tough division (Patriots, or even the Yankees in MLB), as backing in due to being in a weak division (Chargers at 8-8 or the Dodgers in the pathetic NL West in MLB).

The answer to the question is "Yes, and No", as far as I'm concerned. Just depends on ones perspective.

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Originally Posted by 200tang

you really like San Diego more than the colts and ravens?

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Well, rooting for Indy means rooting for Peyton Manning.

Rooting for San Diego means rooting for LaDainian Tomlinson.

I find both choices unappealing.

But, then again, as a Pats fan, last week I found myself rooting for Mangini, Favre, and the Jets

:confused::eek::rolleyes:

so I guess anything's possible...

That is the whole problem with division play. That is why we want customized playoffs with your games. :) That way the top six teams make the playoffs regardless what division they are in. ;)

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Originally Posted by StreetMedic

But, then again, as a Pats fan, last week I found myself rooting for Mangini, Favre, and the Jets

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As I Pats fan I TRIED to root for the Jets. But I couldn't do it. Everytime Miami scored I was happy. I was conciously rooting for the Jets and unconsciously rooting against them. Oh well.

Also note, Indy had the same record as the Steelers and beat the Steelers this year. But Indy is on the road as a #5 seed and Pitt has a bye and home field.

Splunge?
:confused:

Having Divisions keeps more teams in the race for the playoffs. As a result it creates more meaningful games in the final weeks of the season. Also, if you take the top six teams then there is no need for divisions at all. Then we would lose annual rival games with divisional opponents.

The only people taking the top six teams in the conference benefits is the team that missed the cut. Whether or not it's fair is a non-issue for me. The thrill and excitement of professional football would be lessened without divisional alignments. Besides, the rules and parameters are clearly defined before the season starts.

I agree, Porklet. Every league uses divisions. Every league has some divisions that are stronger/weaker than others. Every league has teams with lesser records that win the weak divisions make the playoffs, while a team or two with better records sits at home. However, in every single case there are games those teams with stronger records probably should have won (but didn't)...and if they had, they'd be in the playoffs anyway.

Not really. It's the way football goes.
11-5 is a good year, but they couldn't even win their division.
It's funny though I think that this was Belichick best coaching. I found it amazing living up here in Maine last year as they went undefeated. I liked what they had did in the draft and picking up players (Welker, Morris and Moss). And was definitely disappointed when they choked in the Super Bowl. This year, the Pat's fans I know practically committed seppuku when Brady went down. I found myself wondering where all that Patriot integrity had gone during the offseason. With both Kevin Faulk and Nick Kaczur getting busted for things that most players would of been booted from the team for. But not them.
Losing to both Miami and the Jets cost them the playoffs. While getting beat up by the Steelers and ironically the Chargers cost them their division.
So the Pats all year controlled their own destiny, so it's not unfair.
I'm actually very very curious on how they go in the offseason. Is next year going to be another amazing year?

I'll repeat what I said before. Browns fans thought it a little unfair we missed the playoffs last year at 10-6 on a tiebreaker.

This is sad. Poor Patriots fans can't take the idea of not being champion. They think they should be in the playoffs every year. Well....wah. There are 15 other teams in the AFC and sometimes they win too.

This conversation or one like it goes on whenever a playoff system keeps out someone's favorite team. The fact is the National Football League does the best job of any major North American league of keeping every game meaningful. I read in an article that 13 of the last 16 games potentially meant something in determining who advanced.

Baseball can't claim that. Baseball sees more races going down to the wire than in the 2-division days, but every game?

Basketball's playoff system is a joke. It almost invalidates the regular season. Similar things can be said about hockey. TOO many teams advance in those leagues.

It is not unfair. Suck it up, realize you simply weren't the best team in the AFC East, and dream of better days.

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Originally Posted by CatKnight

This is sad. Poor Patriots fans can't take the idea of not being champion. They think they should be in the playoffs every year. Well....wah. There are 15 other teams in the AFC and sometimes they win too.

It is not unfair. Suck it up, realize you simply weren't the best team in the AFC East, and dream of better days.

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Actually, Cat, I think most folks in this thread (Pats fans included /raises hand/) have been in agreement with your sentiments. :)

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Originally Posted by reflections

Not really. It's the way football goes.
11-5 is a good year, but they couldn't even win their division.
It's funny though I think that this was Belichick best coaching. I found it amazing living up here in Maine last year as they went undefeated. I liked what they had did in the draft and picking up players (Welker, Morris and Moss). And was definitely disappointed when they choked in the Super Bowl. This year, the Pat's fans I know practically committed seppuku when Brady went down. I found myself wondering where all that Patriot integrity had gone during the offseason. With both Kevin Faulk and Nick Kaczur getting busted for things that most players would of been booted from the team for. But not them.
Losing to both Miami and the Jets cost them the playoffs. While getting beat up by the Steelers and ironically the Chargers cost them their division.
So the Pats all year controlled their own destiny, so it's not unfair.
I'm actually very very curious on how they go in the offseason. Is next year going to be another amazing year?

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I wonder if the Pats will try to get younger. Man are they old.

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Originally Posted by bucher34

I wonder if the Pats will try to get younger. Man are they old.

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'Specially LB wise

Yankees had 89 wins last year. Dodgers had 85. Quit your bitching BAWWston fans.