Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
HGM: I think you're missing the point. The Twins being "competitive" is not the same as the Yankees or (of late) the Sox being "competitive". The mere fact that we're talking in this thread about the Yankees as having had a "poor" season while they won one more game than the "competitive" Twins highlights the exact problem. Run enough seasons and you'll get the Twins finishing ahead of the Yankees every once in a great while, just like the Rays managed to get a pennant...but eventually, the competitive balance will be upset, and those that were on top will immediately be back on top - no development or waiting necessary.
Consider it this way: the last time the Twins had a better season than the Yankees was 1992. Do you think it will happen next season? Will it happen in the next five seasons? What if the Twins could have afforded to re-sign Hunter or Santana to a long-term contract, and the Yankees just couldn't stretch their pocketbook enough to sign Sabathia? Wouldn't those odds change a bit?
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
Well, than it's back to what I said here:
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(Yes, having more money will allow you to keep your own players longer and give you a higher chance of sustained winning and less ups and downs, but that doesn't mean the other teams have no chance)
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I definitely see your point. I just don't really think it's that much of a problem that something needs to be done to hamstring the wealthy teams.
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
What I don't really understand is the punishment of success mentality behind the salary cap advocates. Why not look to punish failure instead? I'm much more supportive of a salary floor then I am of a cap...
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
cap simply won't happen, it would never fly with the union...end of discussion
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
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Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
Well, than it's back to what I said here:
(quotes)
Okay, you're entitled to the opinion, I suppose, that nothing needs to be done about it...but please, don't preface that by saying:
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Originally Posted by HoustonGM
The fact is, intelligence, player development, and shrewd moves matter more than just dollars.
That's just not the case. Money is at least as important as any of the foregoing factors if not more. It's the one of the defining factors, and it's easily demonstrable as such.
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
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Originally Posted by
oriole^
That's just not the case. Money is at least as important as any of the foregoing factors if not more. It's the one of the defining factors, and it's easily demonstrable as such.
I don't see how money is at least as important if not more. I see it as clearly secondary to that. Look at the teams that succeed with a low payroll, and then the teams that fail with a high payroll (relatively consistently). The things that separate them are...front office smarts in a variety of areas like trading, free agency, drafting, and player development.
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
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Originally Posted by
etothep
cap simply won't happen, it would never fly with the union...end of discussion
That's what the NFLPA AND the NHLPA both said...until the offer came in that included a spending FLOOR that moved at the same rate as the cap. Curtailing the top end spending of the top, what, 5 or 6 teams tends to be seen a little more favorably when EVERYONE has to spend a certain amount.
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
This made me think of something...:
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Though I may have been subtle in communicating this, the Yankees are not my favorite team. But it is hard to fault them for spending money since, you know, they make a lot of money and, you may have heard, they spent their money on good players who will help them win games and, research shows, winning attracts the fans that make teams profitable. So, like most people, and this might hit you like a striper wrapped in yesterday’s Post, I don’t care that they are spending a lot of money as long as they are NOT asking my elected representatives to steal money from me to give it to them and their business.
I may fervently hope that Sabathia and Burnett turn out like Tartabull and Johnson, but I am not angry that they spent their money to buy players. It’s called the free market.
Oh, and it’s what I wish the Twins would do, too.
Why do fans get so worked up over baseball teams spending their money on baseball players, yet barely make a peep when baseball teams ask the taxpayers to build them stadiums?
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ohms_law
What I don't really understand is the punishment of success mentality behind the salary cap advocates. Why not look to punish failure instead? I'm much more supportive of a salary floor then I am of a cap...
its symptomatic of the new American morays, make even one the same, do not reward people that succeed, pull them back to the pack by any means necessary...
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
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Originally Posted by
Arctic Blast
That's what the NFLPA AND the NHLPA both said...until the offer came in that included a spending FLOOR that moved at the same rate as the cap.
Well, in the case of the NHLPA, until the league's economics came to be so bad overall that there was a real threat that several teams wouldn't survive, the league itself was on the brink, and the owners locked the players out throwing away a season. Not really a comparable situation given that baseball's revenue and attendance are growing year after year.
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
I don't see how money is at least as important if not more. I see it as clearly secondary to that. Look at the teams that succeed with a low payroll, and then the teams that fail with a high payroll (relatively consistently). The things that separate them are...front office smarts in a variety of areas like trading, free agency, drafting, and player development.
Because by your own admission, using your own criteria, I picked a team (the Twins) which you cited as a small-market team with a very savvy front office, and showed that they haven't beaten the Yankees (not just any big-market team, just the Yankees) in 16 seasons, and aren't likely to in the next five. So, either the Yankees' front office is supernaturally talented in some way, or they just use the money to make the difference, placing them in a different strata.
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
That goes back to what I said here, again:
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(Yes, having more money will allow you to keep your own players longer and give you a higher chance of sustained winning and less ups and downs, but that doesn't mean the other teams have no chance)
And also, back to the other quote I previously quoted of myself, that I don't see how it's a problem that needs fixing. It's not as if there's one team in each division that's continually walloping the rest of the division. There's one team in the whole league that has this huge of a monetary advantage.
A salary cap would effectively be a "screw the Yankees cap." The difference between the Yankees and the second place team (the Tigers, who, well, sucked this year), is as big as the difference between the Tigers and the 22nd place team, the Orioles. What exactly would the cap be, for all you salary cap proponents?
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
Well, the Yankees don't seem to have any problem screwing the league, so I don't have any problem with screwing the Yankees...
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
I'm just not seeing how the Yankees are "screwing the league." They have the largest fan base and make the most money. They should be allowed to spend their money to win games. The Yankees have an ownership group and front office that truly cares about winning. I guess fans of other teams are just jealous that they can't enjoy the same luxury (on account of them having dumb front offices and owners that only care about making a profit).
That's really what it comes down to. A salary cap will literally do nothing to improve competitive balance. There's just simply a) not enough of a competitive balance problem and b) there's only one team that's really way ahead of the pack in the thing that a salary cap attempts to fix. The salary cap will only serve as a way to limit the spending of one team. It won't do anything to improve the league as a whole.
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
This made me think of something...:
Why do fans get so worked up over baseball teams spending their money on baseball players, yet barely make a peep when baseball teams ask the taxpayers to build them stadiums?
Uhhh...how many of us DID hammer the Yankees when they demanded another $480 mil 6 months ago (I seem to remember it was quite a few)? Hell, I can't stand public financing of pro sports facilities PERIOD...it's a ridiculous misuse of public funds.
