Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
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Originally Posted by
ohms_law
In my opinion, baseball is perfect right now. What other sport has the Florida marlins? Tampa Bay Rays? Hell, even the Yankees being there for all of us to "hate", or the lovable losing Cubbies. The Red Sox shaking off their 100+ year curse, and now to some becoming the Evil Empire II. Perfection!
Really? In an actual "perfect" system, teams improve, they fall. They spend time on the top, they have some years in the wilderness. A few have extended stays at the top (Braves, Cards, O's in the 1970s) or at the bottom (Mariners, Cubs), probably due to a good or bad front office, coaching, team atmosphere, or luck. Tell me, when's the next 100-loss season for the Yankees or Red Sox? How about even 90 losses? When's the next run for the Houston Astros, or the Kansas City Royals?
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Originally Posted by
ohms_law
This... this brings me back to my earlier statements here. I wouldn't be so quick to be on the side of the "players" either. It's all business, except what actually occurs on the field. The players are suppliers, their businesses themselves, selling a product to their distributors/OEM's, the teams. That's the only way to look at it, because that's the way everyone operates.
You have a point that everyone's part of the system, but not in that it's a business like any other. No other business has to count on competitors being in business. No other business drafts its talent. No other business is left to its own affairs in the same way by Federal authorities. It is different, and it needs to operate under different rules.
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Originally Posted by
ohms_law
In my view, the odd man out in this whole equation is us, the fans. There's no one looking out for our collective interests. There's no "consumer advocacy" for us, at all, when it comes to sports entertainment. The teams, players and their agents, even the media... we're played, constantly. That's why team owners such as Loria are able to scrape together a Championship team and then sell it off the following season, because collectively we allow it. "Hey, it's not my team!", "Those damn (Yankees/Red Sox/Angels), buying all fo our players!", "Oh damn, our Cubbies came so close this year!". And that's not even mentioning the stadium deals, or tourism enticements... We let them do these sorts of things to us, even encourage it occasionally.
This I do agree with, wholeheartedly; I think that in a perfect world, the fans would elect the Comissioner of Baseball, and could recall him as well or have him on a fixed term. Many of the problems we see are due to the fact that we have no input in the game.
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
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Originally Posted by
rogue9
Thats true, but the problem is that they can't keep those players. Miguel Cabrera is a perfect example. He should be the Marlins franchise player. But they can't keep him because of a market so strongly influenced by the whimsical (read: win now at all costs) mentality of the deeper pocket teams.
No. They can't keep him because they have an owner whose only concern is making money and he doesn't care about the product the Marlins put on the field. They cut their best reliever (Joe Nelson) because they didn't want to pay him ~$1 million.
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
So the Marlins have the income necessary to pay Cabrera, Willis, and Rameriz what they would/will/did get from deep pocket teams? and still be profitable for the owner? I don't buy it.
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
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Originally Posted by
rogue9
So the Marlins have the income necessary to pay Cabrera, Willis, and Rameriz what they would/will/did get from deep pocket teams? and still be profitable for the owner? I don't buy it.
If the owner actually cared about fielding a winning ball team, yes, probably. Part of the reason the Yankees have so much money is because the Steinbrenner's actually invest their own money into the team. Down in Florida, Loria's sole concern is making his wallet fatter.
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
I wasn't talking solely about florida though. There are many other small budget teams.
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
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Originally Posted by
rogue9
I wasn't talking solely about florida though. There are many other small budget teams.
Some of the other small budget teams have the disadvantage of being run by idiots for the good part of the last 15-20 years. And those small budget teams that haven't been run by idiots have enjoyed pretty solid success - Oakland, Minnesota, and now that Tampa Bay has a competent GM, them.
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
"I think the Steinbrenners, coming off a miserable last season in Yankee Stadium, are dead set on opening the new stadium with a World Series and they don't care how much it costs. Good for them. You can ***** all you want about the Yankees and greed but they spend money in a sincere effort to win it all, every year. What fan wouldn't want their teams to do that."
I put that in quotes because I didn't write it (obviously, because I would've ended it with a question mark), but I think it's interesting who did.
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
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Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
Some of the other small budget teams have the disadvantage of being run by idiots for the good part of the last 15-20 years. And those small budget teams that haven't been run by idiots have enjoyed pretty solid success - Oakland, Minnesota, and now that Tampa Bay has a competent GM, them.
I don't disagree with you...but for how long are those teams going to be successful? How long until their key guys come up for free agency, and they make a reasonable offer to keep them...only to have the Yankees or the Red Sox or the Mets come in and offer a ludicrous amount of money and buy that player away?
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
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Originally Posted by
Arctic Blast
I don't disagree with you...but for how long are those teams going to be successful? How long until their key guys come up for free agency, and they make a reasonable offer to keep them...only to have the Yankees or the Red Sox or the Mets come in and offer a ludicrous amount of money and buy that player away?
I don't know how long they'll be successful. The Twins lost both Torii Hunter and Johan Santana, and still came 1 game shy of missing the playoffs. The fact is, intelligence, player development, and shrewd moves matter more than just dollars. (Yes, having more money will allow you to keep your own players longer and give you a higher chance of sustained winning and less ups and downs, but that doesn't mean the other teams have no chance)
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
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Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
I don't know how long they'll be successful. The Twins lost both Torii Hunter and Johan Santana, and still came 1 game shy of missing the playoffs. The fact is, intelligence, player development, and shrewd moves matter more than just dollars. (Yes, having more money will allow you to keep your own players longer and give you a higher chance of sustained winning and less ups and downs, but that doesn't mean the other teams have no chance)
I agree it doesn't mean the other teams have no chance...it DOES mean the other teams have a much shorter chance before they lost too many key guys and have to enter another development cycle.
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
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Originally Posted by
Arctic Blast
I agree it doesn't mean the other teams have no chance...it DOES mean the other teams have a much shorter chance before they lost too many key guys and have to enter another development cycle.
If they keep the development cycle going...a la the Twins...though...
I definitely see your point. I just don't really think it's that much of a problem that something needs to be done to hamstring the wealthy teams.
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
Its not about hamstringing them, its about shortening the lease a little.
Everyone kisses Billy Beane's ass, and you bring up the Twins. When was the last time these teams won championships? or had a serious chance at winning?
The teams that retain their players are the teams that do well. Tampa and Phillie are good examples.
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arctic Blast
I don't disagree with you...but for how long are those teams going to be successful? How long until their key guys come up for free agency, and they make a reasonable offer to keep them...only to have the Yankees or the Red Sox or the Mets come in and offer a ludicrous amount of money and buy that player away?
*What* players have the Sox come in and bought away with a ludicrous amount of money? 2? Manny and Drew...and Drew was tampering more than anything.
...and just about any team could have afforded to pay Manny 20 mill a year, AND he would have been worth every penny.
Re: Yanks get Mark Teixeira
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Originally Posted by
rogue9
Everyone kisses Billy Beane's ass, and you bring up the Twins. When was the last time these teams won championships? or had a serious chance at winning?
Every time they got into the playoffs they had a serious chance at winning...unless you're suggesting that they were somehow built to do good in the regular season, but the lack of funds lessened their playoff chances...
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The teams that retain their players are the teams that do well. Tampa and Phillie are good examples.
How is Tampa any different than the Twins or A's? Oh, well, except for the fact that the A's and Twins were/are routinely competitive, and the Rays have just one good season.
And the Phillies aren't a small-market team.
