A little project I'm thinking of doing (HGM's Historical MVP/Cy Young Choices)

Mine would be 1. Braves, because of the consistancy. 2. Yankees, because of the consistancy and the 3 titles, and 3. Cleveland because of how dominant they were from '93 on. They had some truly remarkable teams that caught some of the worst luck in postseason play over that stretch.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

1991:

AL MVP: Cal Ripken, Jr.
NL MVP: Barry Bonds
AL Cy: Roger Clemens
NL Cy: Tom Glavine

This was an easy year, and the only disagreement came in the NL for the MVP, where Terry Pendleton inexplicably beat out Barry Bonds in the BBWAA voting. This was the young Bonds, showcasing excellent offense, speed, and defense, instead of the pure power and walks game he'd later develop. I also have no clue how Cecil Fielder nearly beat out Cal Ripken in the AL BBWAA MVP vote.

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Wasnt that the year Cecil hit 51 homers? I imagine that pretty number is why Cecil beat him out.

ragecage: Fielder hit 51 in 1990.

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Originally Posted by boomboom

My Friends and I used to argue about who was the best team in the 90's. My pick was always
1. Braves
2. Yankees
3. BlueJays

His,
1. Yankees
2. Bluejays
3. Braves

His picks were only based off of WS Winners.

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Let me preface this by saying I'm a die-hard Blue Jay fan. They do not belong in the top 3 in the 90's. For me it's the Braves, the Yankees, and the Indians in that order. If you want to talk about the 11 years from 1983-1993 the Blue Jays are #1, Oakland's in there somewhere, and maybe the Cards?

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Originally Posted by ragecage

Wasnt that the year Cecil hit 51 homers? I imagine that pretty number is why Cecil beat him out.

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As actionjackson said, Cecil hit 51 in 1990, where he placed a very close 2nd (again) to Rickey Henderson. In 1991 he hit .261/.347/.513, 44 HR, 133 RBI, 133 OPS+. Ripken hit .323/.374/.566, 34 HR, 114 RBI, 162 OPS+. Than, of course, Cecil was a blah defensive first basemen and Ripken was a very good defensive shortstop. Jose Canseco had an almost identical year to Cecil, except beat him out slightly in the rate stats, while having a less amount of RBIs, but more stolen bases, and he placed a distant 4th. I guess Cecil was just getting a ton of love around then.

1986:

AL MVP: Roger Clemens
NL MVP: Tim Raines
AL Cy: Roger Clemens
NL Cy: Mike Scott

Only disagreement here came in the NL for the MVP. Mike Schmidt won the BBWAA MVP, and was a very deserving candidate. I have Raines slightly ahead of him though. Raines' OPS+ of 145 nearly matched Schmidt's 152, and OPS+ underrates Raines in that it doesn't capture a huge part of his value - he stole 70 bases at a ridiculous 89% clip. I don't want to take anything away from Schmidt's season, as it was awesome, but I'm giving this one to Raines.

For the AL MVP, I had it really close between Clemens, Don Mattingly, and Jesse Barfield, but I've gotta give it to Roger.

1985:

AL MVP: George Brett
NL MVP: Dwight Gooden
AL Cy: Dave Stieb
NL Cy: Dwight Gooden

The only agreement here came on the only obvious answer - Dwight Gooden for NL Cy Young. I also gave the NL MVP to Doc, as he had a season for the ages. Pedro Guerrero, Tim Raines, and Willie McGee (the BBWAA MVP) all closely followed his tail, but Gooden's season was far enough ahead that I think he was the most valuable player in the NL in 1985.

The AL MVP was an incredibly tough decision. Don Mattingly, Wade Boggs, George Brett, and Rickey Henderson each had amazing seasons. My final choice came down to Brett and Henderson. Brett had the better season at the plate by a good amount, but Henderson was amazing on the basepaths. I agonized between the two, but ended up going with Brett because he amassed more offensive value in terms of both quantity and quality.

Dave Stieb didn't get a sniff of the AL Cy Young award thanks to his mediocre 14-13 record. As you all know, I throw that out the window. When determining the award for the best pitcher in the league, I base my decision purely off how that pitcher PITCHED, and wins and losses are affected too much by outside influences, namely the run support a pitcher receives. Stieb started 36 games, tossing 265 innings with a 2.48 ERA, good for a league-leading 172 ERA+, nearly 20 points higher than second place Charlie Leibrandt who had a 154 ERA+. The BBWAA Cy Young winner, Bret Saberhagen, came in third with a 145 ERA+. Saberhagen trailed Stieb by 30 innings, and 30 points of ERA+. He had that nice-looking 20-6 record, and without a doubt had a fantastic season, but Stieb had a huge edge in quality over the rest of the league, and placed 3rd in the league in innings. Easy call to give this one to Dave Stieb, the most criminally underrated pitcher of the 1980's. It's him that should hold the title of the "Best Pitcher of the 1980's", not Jack Morris.

1984:

AL MVP: Cal Ripken, Jr.
NL MVP: Ryne Sandberg
AL Cy: Willie Hernandez
NL Cy: Dwight Gooden

I gave very strong consideration to both Dave Stieb and Bert Blyleven in the AL for Cy Young, but I think the voters got it right with Willie Hernandez. This is back in the heyday of reliever usage, where the best relievers were throwing 120+ innings, making them extremely valuable. In Win Probability Added, Willie Hernandez posted a figure of 8.58. Second place in the AL was another reliever, Dan Quisenberry, with roughly half that at 4.43. Hernandez didn't toss as many innings as starters like Stieb and Blyleven, but his innings were of utmost importance.

While I agreed that Willie deserved the Cy Young, I disagree on the BBWAA's election of him as the MVP as well. In another mystery I've uncovered, does anybody care to explain to me how the BBWAA voted Cal Ripken the MVP in 1983, but in 1984, despite posting an IDENTICAL season, he received just 1 10th place vote? Oh. Nevermind. I checked. The Orioles went from 1st to 5th, so, obviously, that makes Ripken barely worthy of a vote in 1984! Ripken had a 145 OPS+ and combined it with great defense up the middle. A truly MVP worthy performance, as the BBWAA agreed the year prior.

The 1984 BBWAA Cy Young, Rick Sutcliffe, got a good amount of press this past season, as C.C. Sabathia bettered his performance after switching leagues via trade. Sutcliffe posted a ridiculous 16-1 record in 150 innings after making the switch to the NL, en route to an unanimous Cy Young decision. I disagree. Dwight Gooden did what Sutcliffe did, except he pitched the whole year, throwing 218 innings. I also gave very strong consideration to another reliever, Bruce Sutter, but ended up slotting Gooden ever-so-slightly ahead of him.

Almost 25 years too late Dave Stieb finally gets his Cy Young Award and is rightfully recognized as the "Best Pitcher of the 1980's" ahead of the incredibly overrated Jack Morris and John Olerud gets his MVP for his incredible 1993. Oh, and Houston, get used to the BBWAA giving out awards based on Wins and RBI. Apparently, they're not too clear on the difference between individually generated stats and team influenced stats and they really like the "counting" stats: sad but true.

Yeah, I know, I'm used to it, haha. I was well aware of it before I started this project. It's just amazing to me, still, how crazy they are sometimes. Really, deciding Cy Young's based on a difference of one win, despite a 1 run difference in ERA? :rolleyes:

1983:

AL MVP: Cal Ripken, Jr.
NL MVP: Dale Murphy
AL Cy: Dave Stieb
NL Cy: John Denny

Agreed on all but the AL Cy Young here. The BBWAA deservingly awarded the AL MVP to Cal Ripken, Jr., but failed to do it in 1984 despite an identical season from Cal. As for the AL Cy Young, Dave Stieb takes home his 2nd HGM Cy Young award, despite not getting a single mention on any BBWAA ballot. 24 game winner LaMarr Hoyt won the BBWAA award, despite being beat out by a number of pitchers in both innings and ERA. Jack Morris had what was likely the best season of his career, and the only season so far in which I gave him any Cy Young consideration, tossing 294 innings at a 117 ERA+ level. Dave Stieb, though, threw 278 innings and had an ERA+ of 142, earning him the award. Had Willie Hernandez not gone epic on the league out of the pen in 1984, Stieb likely would've completed a 3-peat.

1982:

AL MVP: Robin Yount
NL MVP: Pedro Guerrero
AL Cy: Dave Stieb
NL Cy: Steve Rogers

The AL MVP is the only agreement here.

In the NL, Dale Murphy, Gary Carter, Mike Schmidt, and Pedro Guerrero all put up fantastic seasons. I've got Guerrero just a tad ahead of that group. His OPS+ is a bit behind Schmidt, but he's ahead of Schmidt in VORP and Batting Runs. Solid defense at the corners helps his case a bit. It could really go to any of those four.

For the AL Cy Young, I've got Stieb again. That's his 3rd HGM Cy Young, and as I mentioned in 1983, you could make an argument for him in 1984 as well, which would've given him four consecutive HGM Cy Young's. He was truly a great pitcher at his peak. I now understand more clearly why the Hall of Merit elected him. He led the league in innings by 20, and had a 138 ERA+, good for 3rd in the league, just behind Rick Sutcliffe (139, 216 innings) and Bob Stanley (140, 168 innings).

In the NL, Steve Carlton won the BBWAA Cy Young on the strength of his 23 wins and 296 innings. I do have Carlton a close second behind Steve Rogers (and Joe Niekro basically tied with Carlton), but Rogers huge edge in quality gives him my award. Rogers led the league with a 152 ERA+ (Carlton had a 119) while throwing 277 innings.

1981:

AL MVP: Rollie Fingers
NL MVP: Mike Schmidt
AL Cy: Rollie Fingers
NL Cy: Steve Carlton

Only one disagreement here - NL Cy Young. For the AL MVP, I really struggled on who to choose. I saw Dwight Evans, Rickey Henderson, Bobby Grich, and Rollie Fingers all very close. I'm still not sure if I made the right choice to agree with the BBWAA and give it to the reliever Fingers, but I'll stick with it. For the NL Cy Young, the country was wrapped up in Fernando-mania that year, leading to Fernando Valenzuela getting the award. Carlton, though, pitched just 2 less innings with a lower ERA and a significantly higher ERA+ of 150 to Valenzuela's 135. So, while Carlton lost his 1982 Cy Young from me, he gained it back in 1981.

1980:

AL MVP: George Brett
NL MVP: Mike Schmidt
AL Cy: Mike Norris
NL Cy: Steve Carlton

The only disagreement here came with the AL Cy Young, and Norris nearly won the BBWAA award. He received 13 first place votes, as many as the winner Steve Stone, but lost out on down-ballot votes. Stone amassed 6 more wins than him, but he threw 30 more innings and had an ERA half a run lower.

1979:

AL MVP: Fred Lynn
NL MVP: Dave Winfield
AL Cy Young: Dennis Eckersley
NL Cy Young: J.R. Richard

Well, here, I disagreed with each and every one of their picks. Let's go one by one.

The BBWAA AL MVP award went to Don Baylor. I have numerous players above him, including but not limited to Fred Lynn, George Brett, Darrell Porter, Bobby Grich, and Ken Singleton. Fred Lynn had a monstrous year, posting a 176 OPS+ and playing great defense. I've got him solidly ahead of the rest of the pack.

The BBWAA NL MVP award was awarded to both Keith Hernandez and Willie Stargell. As we all know, that was more of a "gesture" from the BBWAA, awarding Stargell for a solid year and a great career, but Stargell really had no legitimate MVP argument. Hernandez had a legitimate case, but I think Dave Winfield was solidly above him. Winfield hit .308/.395/.558, 166 OPS+, with 34 HR and 118 RBI. Add to that excellent defense, and he had himself a mighty fine year, grabbing the HGM MVP award.

The BBWAA awarded Mike Flanagan with the Cy Young award. As with the AL MVP, I have the BBWAA winner behind a handful of guys - Tommy John, Jerry Koosman, Ron Guidry, and my choice for winner, Dennis Eckersley. Eckersley didn't throw as many innings as some of those guys, but he also doesn't get enough credit for his run prevention that year. His 2.99 ERA doesn't impress out of that group of pitchers I listed above, but what isn't remembered is that Eckersley pitched in Fenway Park, which was one of the most extreme hitter's parks of the era. Eck bests Koosman and Flanagan by 20 points of ERA+, and beats Tommy John by 13 and Ron Guidry by 4. His innings advantage over Guidry gives him the award.

The NL Cy Young by the BBWAA was awarded to reliever Bruce Sutter. I'm giving it to strikeout machine J.R. Richard. Phil Niekro led the league with an absurd 342 innings, but J.R. Richard was in 2nd with 292, 30 above the 3rd place finisher (the other Niekro, Joe). He had a 100 strikeout advantage over second place Steve Carlton. The only pitcher to post a better ERA+ was reliever Tom Hume. The next year, 1980, Richard was enjoying another fabulous season, but tragedy struck, and Richard went down with a variety of ailments, eventually leading to a stroke which would end his baseball career.