A little project I'm thinking of doing (HGM's Historical MVP/Cy Young Choices)

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Originally Posted by metsguy234

Pedro has 4 Cy Youngs, 2 MVPs already... I think I'm gonna be sick :mad:

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Don't worry, we're out of his years as one of the greatest pitchers to ever take the mound, so he won't be getting any more HGM hardware.

That's too bad, Pedro is my favorite pitcher of all time :C

1996:

AL MVP: Alex Rodriguez
NL MVP: Barry Bonds
AL Cy: Pat Hentgen
NL Cy: Kevin Brown

Only one agreement this time, and that being the fairly easy call of Pat Hentgen for the AL Cy Young award (although Hentgen barely nudged Andy Pettitte in the BBWAA voting, getting 110 points to Pettitte's 104. Really, there's that much of a difference between 21 wins and 20 wins that the guy with the ERA half a run higher in 40 less innings was better? :rolleyes:). Meanwhile, over in the National League, John Smoltz waltzed to an uncontested victory on the strength of 24 wins, even though his own teammate Greg Maddux pitched better and Kevin Brown had a 1.89 ERA. Brown's 216 ERA+ seals the deal for me.

This was Juan Gonzalez's first of two undeserved AL MVP awards (detailed the other in 1998). Alex Rodriguez did nearly beat him out in the BBWAA voting, getting 10 1st place votes to Gonzalez's 11, and falling just 3 points short of a tie. A-Rod did everything offensively better than Gonzalez except rack up RBI's (gee, wonder why. It'd have nothing to do with their placement in the batting order and the hitters in front of them, would it?), PLUS did it as a solid defensive shortstop while Gonzalez was a poor defensive corner outfielder. A-Rod should've ran away with this one at the tender, young age of 20.

The NL was a much closer call. Gary Sheffield nearly matched Bonds in hitting prowess, but Bonds's significant edge in the field and on the basepaths puts Bonds clearly ahead of Sheffield. Mike Piazza had another MVP-quality season, and Ken Caminiti had his fluke great season, combining excellent offense with superb defense at the hot corner. However, Bonds was just a force in every aspect of the game, securing his 5th HGM MVP award.

1995:

AL MVP: Albert Belle
NL MVP: Greg Maddux
AL Cy: Randy Johnson
NL Cy: Greg Maddux

Agreed on both the Cy Young's, but on neither of the MVP's. The Cy Young's were hilariously easy calls, as Maddux and Johnson both utterly decimated the competition. Johnson joins Pedro and Roger Clemens as the only three pitchers to win HGM Cy's in both leagues.

Albert Belle narrowly lost to Mo Vaughn in the BBWAA election, no doubt due to him often being at odds with the media. There was literally nothing that Vaughn did better than Belle that year. They had an equal amount of RBI's, but other than that, Belle was clearly superior. He played a more important position and fielded it better. He had more home runs, more doubles, more walks, less strikeouts, a higher batting average, a higher on-base percentage, a higher slugging percentage, a higher OPS+ just to show it wasn't a park illusion, more runs scored, more games played, the list goes on and on. Belle got jobbed out of this award, clearly. He gets his second HGM MVP.

The NL MVP award was hotly contested with the BBWAA, with four players - Barry Larkin, Dante Bichette, Greg Maddux, and Mike Piazza - receiving first place votes. Larkin was actually better in 1996 than he was in 1995 when he won the award. Dante Bichette was a huge beneficiary of Coors Field. His numbers pale in comparison to a large chunk of the league once you adjust for home park. I have Barry Bonds second behind Greg Maddux, and he placed 11th in the BBWAA voting, despite leading the league in many offensive categories. Maddux over the two strike-shortened years was ridiculous, as hew threw over 400 innings at a 265 ERA+ level.

1994:

AL MVP: Frank Thomas
NL MVP: Jeff Bagwell
AL Cy: David Cone
NL Cy: Greg Maddux

This was the first (and only) year since 2003 that I agreed with all four of the BBWAA selections. Greg Maddux had another awesome, MVP-quality pitching season, but Jeff Bagwell put up ridiculous offensive numbers in the strike-shortened season, sufficient enough to beat out Maddux's ridiculous numbers. Frank Thomas put up similar numbers in the AL. The AL Cy was a closer race than the BBWAA voting results would have you believe. David Cone barely beat out Jimmy Key in the voting...Why? Jimmy Key had 17 wins. David Cone had 16. It really is amazing how much emphasis is placed on wins. That's just an absurd amount. It's nice to see that in the modern day, while it's still undoubtedly there, the influence of the Win is dampened. If this was 1994, there's no way in hell that Tim Lincecum would've easily beat Brandon Webb. In fact, Webb likely would've ran away with the award. At any rate, I have Jimmy Key 5th that year, behind Cone, Mike Mussina, Randy Johnson, and Roger Clemens. I have Cone just a tad ahead of the Big Unit. Clemens got no love from the voters in 1994, despite leading the league in ERA+, because he had a mediocre 9-7 record.

1993:

AL MVP: John Olerud
NL MVP: Barry Bonds
AL Cy: Kevin Appier
NL Cy: Greg Maddux

Agreed on the NL, and disagreed on the AL. Frank Thomas won his first of two BBWAA MVP's in 1993. John Olerud, though, was better. Olerud paced him in most offensive catgeories, and also played a better first base. The AL Cy going to Jack McDowell is another illustration of the win emphasis, and I'm really getting tired of saying that. McDowell was behind multiple pitchers in everything besides wins. Kevin Appier, meanwhile, had a 30 point edge in ERA+ over the entire American League. He trailed both McDowell and Randy Johnson in innings, but that huge difference in quality makes me easily give this one to Appier.

1992:

AL MVP: Frank Thomas
NL MVP: Barry Bonds
AL Cy: Roger Clemens
NL Cy: Greg Maddux

As with 1993, I think the BBWAA got the NL right, while missing (badly) in the AL. Dennis Eckersley had a great season, but it wasn't so far in another realm that he would deserve the Cy Young, let alone the MVP as well. His 1990, now THAT was an otherworldly year, and he placed 5th and 6th in the Cy Young and MVP voting, respectively. Roger Clemens placed 3rd behind Eck and Jack McDowell (there he is again!), despite pitching circles around them. He gets my Cy Young. For the MVP, Frank Thomas placed 8th in the BBWAA voting, largely because the skills he exhibited in 1992 weren't appreciated much at that time (namely, not making outs). Thomas had a lackluster 24 home runs, but he trounced the league in on-base percentage and placed 3rd in both batting average and slugging percentage.

1991:

AL MVP: Cal Ripken, Jr.
NL MVP: Barry Bonds
AL Cy: Roger Clemens
NL Cy: Tom Glavine

This was an easy year, and the only disagreement came in the NL for the MVP, where Terry Pendleton inexplicably beat out Barry Bonds in the BBWAA voting. This was the young Bonds, showcasing excellent offense, speed, and defense, instead of the pure power and walks game he'd later develop. I also have no clue how Cecil Fielder nearly beat out Cal Ripken in the AL BBWAA MVP vote.

1990:

AL MVP: Rickey Henderson
NL MVP: Barry Bonds
AL Cy: Roger Clemens
NL Cy: Frank Viola

The early 90's turned out to be extremely easy, as I flew threw doing them and I'm very confident in my choices. I think the BBWAA got both the MVP's right, while missing on both Cy Youngs. I'd just like to note that Barry Bonds now has two separate streaks of 4 consecutive HGM MVP's, and a total of 9.

Bob Welch had a basically unheard of 27 wins, leading him to earning the BBWAA Cy Young. This was also the year that Dennis Eckersley had a sick season out of the pen. In any other year, I'd likely award the Cy to Eck, but this wasn't any other year. Roger Clemens posted a 1.93 ERA, good for a 213 ERA+, which led the league by over 50 points. Clemens takes his third consecutive (working backwards) HGM Cy Young, and 6th overall.

In the NL, Doug Drabek won the BBWAA Cy Young basically uncontested thanks to a shiny 22-6 record. Frank Viola, however, tossed 19 more innings at a higher quality. The NL leader in pitcher VORP for 1990 takes home the NL HGM Cy Young.

1989:

AL MVP: Bret Saberhagen
NL MVP: Kevin Mitchell
AL Cy: Bret Saberhagen
NL Cy: Orel Hershiser

Ah, finally, a tough year to evaluate! I ended up agreeing with the NL MVP and AL Cy Young and disagreeing with the AL MVP and NL Cy Young. I also saw the NL MVP race as a very tight one between Kevin Mitchell and Will Clark, the latter of whom did place 2nd in the BBWAA voting but wasn't particularly close.

For the AL MVP, I identified a boatload of potential candidates, including some like Wade Boggs who barely got a sniff from the BBWAA. I think the 1989 AL closely resembled the 2008 AL, in which I awarded pitcher Cliff Lee the MVP. There was a host of tightly grouped excellent position players, but none of which really stood out, while there was a pitcher (or in the case of the 2008 AL, two pitchers) that really had a phenomenal year. Saberhagen's 1989 dwarfed even Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay in 2008. I had Fred McGriff and Robin Yount (the BBWAA winner) close behind Saberhagen, but this was Bret's year.

The BBWAA awarded the NL Cy Young to closer Mark Davis. As you've likely gathered, I don't like awarding the Cy Young to closers. I went with a guy that would've easily taken home the award had he better support - Orel Hershiser. His 15-15 record is rather ugly, but he tossed 257 innings of 148 ERA+ ball which puts him solidly above the 2nd and 3rd place BBWAA finishers, Mike Scott and Greg Maddux, both of whom threw less innings at a lower quality.

1988:

AL MVP: Jose Canseco
NL MVP: Will Clark
AL Cy: Frank Viola
NL Cy: Orel Hershiser

I agreed on all but the NL MVP. I had it real close between Will Clark and Kirk Gibson, but Clark's combination of better offense in more games led me to choose Clark. 160 OPS+, fine defense at first base. People often forget what a great player Clark was at his peak.

Frank Viola joins three of the top pitchers ever - Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, and Pedro Martinez - on the list of pitchers who have won the HGM Cy Young in both the AL and the NL. Orel Hershiser takes his second consecutive award, as he posted nearly identical seasons in both 1988 and 1989 (except, of course, if you only look at wins and losses).

1987:

AL MVP: Alan Trammell
NL MVP: Tony Gwynn
AL Cy: Roger Clemens
NL Cy: Orel Hershiser

Only one agreement here - Roger Clemens in the AL. He gets his 7th HGM Cy Young. The two BBWAA MVP choices - George Bell and Andre Dawson - are often cited in discussions of the worst MVP picks of all-time, and I concur with that sentiment.

Alan Trammell had a monster year in 1987. He had a 155 OPS+ (Bell was at 146). Add to that Trammell's position - shortstop - while Bell played the outfield. Than add that Trammell was an incredible defensive shortstop. It's really quite clear that Trammell was the more valuable player.

There were a host of better options than Andre Dawson in the NL. What makes the selection of Dawson even more wacky is that he played for a last place team. Ozzie Smith placed a close 2nd in the BBWAA voting. I give the award to Tony Gwynn, who came in 8th with the BBWAA despite a shiny .370 batting average.

Once again, the NL Cy Young voters gave the award to a relief pitcher. I can sort of understand why...there really wasn't a true standout starter. Rick Reuschel received 8 first place votes to Steve Bedrosian's 9, but still managed to place 3rd, one point behind Rick Sutcliffe. My pick - Orel Hershiser - placed fourth with 2 first place votes. Hershiser led the league in innings while putting up a 131 ERA+, equivalent to Reuschel but in nearly 40 more innings. Having been born in the late 80's and growing up in the 90s, I knew that Hershiser was a very good pitcher, but I never knew just how good he was at his peak. This is now his third consecutive HGM Cy Young (but it'll be his last). Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux, Roger Clemens, and Johan Santana round out the list of pitchers to have won three or more consecutive HGM Cy Young awards.

Though I am a Canadian baseball fan, I would like to thank you for stripping George Bell and long time Expo Andre Dawson (Dawson in the NL? Sometimes I wonder what the hell is in the writers' coffee, never mind the players') of their undeserved MVP awards.

I never thought I would see Kevin Appier and Pat Hentgen in this discussion. I am really surprised but I cant argue obviously. But I think injuries cost Saberhagen on a HOF career. His control was uncanny compared to most pitchers.

Good stuff HGM, when I was younger, I used to argue with Friends that Dawson was thew worst MVP pick of all time. Also, I thought it was silly the the Ec won the MVP in 1991. Good stuff. I remember Barry Bonds in the 1991 Playoffs, it was my first memory of watching him (on TV) I know who he was, but actually watching a live Pirates game is few and far between ;), my Dad said "He look Bobby, its Barry Bonds, he is going to be one of the best players to ever grace the game". That still rings in my ears, and how right he was..

My Friends and I used to argue about who was the best team in the 90's. My pick was always
1. Braves
2. Yankees
3. BlueJays

His,
1. Yankees
2. Bluejays
3. Braves

His picks were only based off of WS Winners.