A little project I'm thinking of doing (HGM's Historical MVP/Cy Young Choices)

HGM, I went through both of our picks. There were 432 awards total (4 awards per season, 108 seasons) and I agreed with you on 277 of those awards. That means I agreed with you about 64% of the time.

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Originally Posted by boomboom

You just read it that way, but I don't think he meant it that way. I didn't see anything wrong with the way he said it.

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I didn't mean it in any way, and I'm sorry if it came out wrong. I just found it odd that of the pre-1901 non-NL leagues, you'd pick the Player's League to mention.

A couple notes before I start going back further - The game was very different back in the 19th century. Rules were different, and player use, particularly pitchers, were different. Yes, Hoss Radbourn pitched 75 games and 678.2 innings in 1884..but Pud Galvin pitched 72 games and 636 innings. Most teams had one main starting pitcher, which makes Hoss's efforts less valuable, which is why while he has the upper edge on the Cy Young award (I haven't looked closely yet), he very well may not be the MVP. It's going to be a lot harder for a pitcher to win an MVP back in his time, as the game was just so different.

1900:

MVP: Honus Wagner
Cy: Joe McGinnity

McGinnity had a 131 ERA+ in 343 innings, while Wagner had a 175 OPS+.

1899:

MVP: John McGraw
Cy: Vic Willis

John McGraw beats out Ed Delahanty, even when considering their difference in playing time (in favor of Delahanty). McGraw had a ridiculous .547 on-base percentage, and also stole more than 70 bases while playing excellent defense at the more important position of third base. The Hall of Merit over at BaseballThinkFactory, particularly Dan Rosenheck's work, has swayed me on McGraw, particularly his 1899 season.

Vic Willis beats out Cy Young, besting him in ERA+ and innings.

1898:

MVP: John McGraw
Cy: Kid Nichols

McGraw takes home his second consecutive MVP, and didn't suffer from playing time issues this season. Kid Nichols bests Clark Griffith despite an 18 point lead for the latter in ERA+, thanks to a 60 inning difference.

1897:

MVP: Willie Keeler
Cy: Kid Nichols

Keeler hit .424/.464/.539 and beats out Fred Clarke. Kid Nichols had a league-leading 170 ERA+ in 368 innings

1896:

MVP: Ed Delahanty
Cy: Kid Nichols

Delahanty led the league with a 190 OPS+, and second place Joe Kelley was at 164. Kid Nichols narrowly edges out Cy Young for the Cy award.

1895:

MVP: Ed Delahanty
Cy: Pink Hawley

Delahanty and his .500 OBP gets his second consecutive MVP. Pink Hawley pitched 444 innings (over 70 more than Cy Young) with a 143 ERA+ (11 below Young).

1894:

MVP: Hugh Duffy
Cy: Amos Rusie

This was the year that Hugh Duffy hit .440, a single season batting average record that still stands today, over 100 years later. Amos Rusie had a 189 ERA+ in 444 innings.

1893:

MVP: Ed Delahanty
Cy: Amos Rusie

Delahanty hit .368/.423/.583, placing second in OPS+ to Billy Hamilton, but with over 200 more plate appearances. Amos Rusie finished basically tied with Cy Young in ERA+ (144 to 145), while throwing 60 extra innings.

1892:

MVP: Dan Brouthers
Cy: Cy Young

Dan Brouthers had a 180 OPS+ while being solid in the field at first base. Cy Young dominated the league this year with a 176 ERA+ in 453 innings.

Will Cap Anson win the MVP anytime?

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Originally Posted by ragecage

Will Cap Anson win the MVP anytime?

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Maybe? lol I haven't yet gotten to the peak of his career.

1891:

MVP: Billy Hamilton
Cy: Bill Hutchinson

Bill Hutchinson pitched 560 innings, 60 more than the second place guy, and roughly 140 more than Kid Nichols, the leader in ERA+. Hutchinson had a 125 OPS+, far behind Nichols' league-leading 152, but 140 innings is a massive difference. His lead in innings garnered him some MVP consideration, but just as Hutchinson dominated in innings, Billy Hamilton dominated the league in on-base percentage, the only player to finish above .400, and he was at .453. He also stole 111 bases and played good defense.