A little project I'm thinking of doing (HGM's Historical MVP/Cy Young Choices)

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Because you say some pretty outrageous things that seem to be made for no reason other than to elicit a reaction.

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But when boomboom just told me to stop trolling, it was because of me misreading something.

1949:

AL MVP: Ted Williams
NL MVP: Jackie Robinson
AL Cy: Mel Parnell
NL Cy: Warren Spahn

The BBWAA and I agreed on both MVP awards. For the AL Cy Young, Mel Parnell was the clear choice. He combined excellent quantity (295 innings) with excellent quality (157 ERA+). I gave Warren Spahn (302 innings, 124 ERA+) the NL Cy Young over Howie Pollot (230 innings, 150 ERA+) because of the massive innings gap.

1948:

AL MVP: Lou Boudreau
NL MVP: Stan Musial
AL Cy: Bob Lemon
NL Cy: Johnny Sain

I agreed on both MVP's, again. Ted Williams had another ridiculous offensive season, but Boudreau's combination of offense and up-the-middle defense gives him the edge.

Bob Lemon had an awesome year, putting up a 144 ERA+ in 293 innings, the clear AL winner. In the NL, Johnny Sain had an even better year, with a 147 ERA+ in 314 innings. Harry Brecheen was up there thanks to his sick 182 ERA+, but falling roughly 80 innings short of Sain, and making 9 less starts, is a huge chunk of value.

HGM,

I'm going to disagree with your '48 AL MVP. Williams was clearly better offensively, out-OPS+ing Boudreau 189 to 164. I don't think Boudreau's defense is enough to bring him closer. The only reason the Indians beat the Sox by a game is because of the pitching of Lemon, Bearden, and Feller.

1947:

AL MVP: Ted Williams
NL MVP: Ralph Kiner
AL Cy: Bob Feller
NL Cy: Warren Spahn

After two years of agreeing with both MVP choices, I disagree with both this season. Joe DiMaggio beat out Ted Williams for the AL MVP from the BBWAA, but Williams just out-hit everyone this year, and nobody was close. In the NL, Ralph Kiner holds that distinction, although it wasn't by as much of a gap as Williams. Bob Elliot, the BBWAA NL MVP, does come in a closer second to Kiner on the strength of his third base defense.

The AL Cy Young was close between Bob Feller and Hal Newhouser. Feller started 37 games and pitched in relief in 5, throwing 299 innings at a 130 ERA+ and amassing a 20-11 record. Newhouser started 36 games and pitched 4 in relief. He threw 285 innings with a 132 ERA+ and a 17-17 record. There's barely any difference between the two, so I went with the guy with the more innings.

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Originally Posted by PotatoOfCouch13

HGM,

I'm going to disagree with your '48 AL MVP. Williams was clearly better offensively, out-OPS+ing Boudreau 189 to 164. I don't think Boudreau's defense is enough to bring him closer. The only reason the Indians beat the Sox by a game is because of the pitching of Lemon, Bearden, and Feller.

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It's a combination of Boudreau's excellent defense at shortstop and Williams relatively poor defense at left field that does it for me. Fielding Runs has Boudreau at 24 above average, and 52 above replacement. Williams is at 9 below average and 4 above replacement. I also factored in that Boudreau played in 15 more games than Williams.

1946:

AL MVP: Ted Williams
NL MVP: Stan Musial
AL Cy: Bob Feller
NL Cy: Howie Pollet and Johnny Sain (tie)

Ah, this was a weird year. The MVP's were both incredibly easy calls, and the BBWAA got it right. Both Cy Young awards, though, are incredibly difficult. As I'm typing this, I've yet to make a call. Each league has two incredibly close candidates. In the AL, there's Bob Feller and Hal Newhouser (again!):

Feller: 26-15, 371.1 IP, 153 ERA+, 348 K, 14.8 WARP, 161 Pitching Runs Above Replacement
Newhouser: 26-9, 292.2 IP, 188 ERA+, 275 K, 13.8 WARP, 141 Pitching Runs Above Replacement

This is so tough because I want to reward Newhouser's ridiculous quality, but I can't ignore Feller's huge gap in quantity, while still retaining an incredibly level of excellence. Agh...okay, I'll go with Feller, because he led the league in games by 8, innings by 80, and batters faced by nearly 400.

In the NL, it's between Johnny Sain and Howie Pollet:

Pollet: 21-10, 266 innings, 164 ERA+, 107 K, 8.5 WARP, 92 PRAR
Sain: 20-14, 265 innings, 156 ERA+, 129 K, 11.2 WARP, 103 PRAR

The WARP advantage is huge for Sain, but I'm not seeing why exactly. Both pitchers gave up basically the same amount of unearned runs as well. Sain faced just 3 more batters. I honestly can say that I haven't come across two pitchers, at the top of the league, being so damn close. With that said, I'm going to do a first, and award a tie, as the BBWAA did in the late 60's with Denny McLain and Mike Cueller.

1945:

AL MVP: Hal Newhouser
NL MVP: Tommy Holmes
AL Cy: Hal Newhouser
NL Cy: Hank Wyse

We're into the WWII years, where most of the games top players were overseas serving their country. This allowed Hal Newhouser to go nuclear on the league and utterly decimate opposing batters (although he did show, in the following years, that he was mostly for real, and wasn't purely a product of facing weak hitters). I agree with the BBWAA selection of him as MVP, and thus, he's my AL Cy Young as well.

The NL MVP from the BBWAA was awarded to Phil Cavarretta. I have Cavarretta second to Tommy Holmes, who placed a distant second to him in the BBWAA voting. Holmes was the superior hitter, while also amassing much more playing time.

The NL had a real lack of good pitchers. Hank Wyse pitched 278.1 innings and had a 136 ERA+, beating out Preacher Roe and Claude Passeau, each who had higher ERA+'s but less innings.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

1950:

AL MVP: Phil Rizzuto
NL MVP: Eddie Stanky
AL Cy: Ewell Blackwell
NL Cy: Ned Garver

Phil Rizzuto's 1950 MVP is often disputed, but I think it was deserved. He had his peak offensive season, while combining that with excellent defense at shortstop. Combine it with a weak class of players all around, and he comes out on top. Al Rosen, who finished 17th in the BBWAA voting, was a close second for me.

The NL MVP went to reliever Jim Konstanty. I'm giving it to Eddie Stanky of the Giants. The slick-fielding second basemen led the league with an awesome .460 on-base percentage.

The AL Cy Young goes to Ned Garver, which will probably be one of my more controversial picks. Garver posted a 146 ERA+ in 260 innings. He played for the St. Louis Browns, a pretty bad team. In 1951, the following year, he overcame his team's 102 losses to post a 20-12 record, which earned him a 2nd place finish in the MVP voting. In 1950, though, luck wasn't on his side, and despite an appreciably better year, his record was a lowly 13-18, while his team went 58-96.

I'm giving the NL Cy Young to Robin Roberts, his fourth HGM Cy. He had a 135 ERA+ in over 300 innings. He also had a very legitimate argument in 1951, which would've given him a 5th, but I had Sal Maglie just a tad above him.

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Now, I'm confused...

1944:

AL MVP: Dizzy Trout
NL MVP: Stan Musial
AL Cy: Dizzy Trout
NL Cy: Mort Cooper

The BBWAA gave Hal Newhouser the MVP in 1944 as well, but Trout was easily better. Trout had both a higher ERA and ERA+, and tossed 40 more innings. I found it slightly amusing that Dick Wakefield placed 5th in the MVP voting, even picking up 2 first place votes, even though he only played half the season (albeit at an incredible level).

The NL MVP went to Stan Musial's teammate, infielder Marty Marion. Marion had to have been playing an insane level of defense, though, to make up for the 300 points of OPS that Musial had on him. Stan the Man takes home his 3rd HGM MVP.

I had originally given the NL Cy Young to Bucky Walters, but then something caught my eye - Walters struck out less batters than he walked. He was helped by his defense at an incredible level (but still gave up 16 unearned runs). If nobody was close to him, I'd overlook that, but Mort Cooper posted an ERA+ just two points lower, albeit in less innings. Cooper gave up just 5 unearned runs, and struck out 97 batters to 60 walks.

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Originally Posted by metsguy234

Now, I'm confused...

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Ah. I screwed up there because I misread leagues when I was evaluating the players. The AL Cy is Ned Garver, and the NL Cy is Robin Roberts, as the commentary says. I'll fix that, thanks.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

1984:

While I agreed that Willie deserved the Cy Young, I disagree on the BBWAA's election of him as the MVP as well. In another mystery I've uncovered, does anybody care to explain to me how the BBWAA voted Cal Ripken the MVP in 1983, but in 1984, despite posting an IDENTICAL season, he received just 1 10th place vote? Oh. Nevermind. I checked. The Orioles went from 1st to 5th, so, obviously, that makes Ripken barely worthy of a vote in 1984! Ripken had a 145 OPS+ and combined it with great defense up the middle. A truly MVP worthy performance, as the BBWAA agreed the year prior.

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Gladly.

There was a higher number of great performances in the AL in 1984 then there was in 1983. Consider this:

In Year A- the top MVP candidates are
Bob Smith- .330 25 HR 134 RBI 40 SB and very good defense
John Adams- .275 30 HR 110 RBI 2 SB and okay defense
Steve Johnson- .300 32 HR, 115 RBI 10 SB and below average defense

In Year B- the top MVP candidates are
Bob Smith- .330 25 HR 134 RBI 40 SB and very good defense
Rich Anderson- .360 45 HR 160 RBI 20 SB and average defense
Larry Stevenson- .390 20 HR 100 RBI 70 SB and above average defense

In Year A, Bob Smith is the clear MVP, in Year B, not so much.

Except that wasn't the case in 1983 and 1984.

1943:

AL MVP: Spud Chandler
NL MVP: Stan Musial
AL Cy: Spud Chandler
NL Cy: Mort Cooper

Agreed on both here. I have Luke Appling very closer to Chandler in the AL MVP, and he did finish in second in the BBWAA voting. I almost gave it to Appling, but a 197 ERA+ in 253 innings can't be ignored.

For the NL, Mort Cooper was an easy choice for me, as he wins his second consecutive HGM Cy Young. 274 innings, 147 ERA+. Max Lanier had a 178 ERA+ but in 60 less innings.

1942:

AL MVP: Ted Williams
NL MVP: Mort Cooper
AL Cy: Tex Hughson
NL Cy: Mort Cooper

Cooper grabs his 3rd consecutive HGM Cy Young, as I agree with the BBWAA on his MVP selection. In the AL, the BBWAA voted Joe Gordon MVP. Williams, though, posted a 217 OPS+. And that's that.

For the AL Cy Young, Tex Hughson nabs it with 281 innings and a 144 ERA+. He finished tied for 5th in ERA, but those he tied with and the guys ahead of him all had significantly less innings. Ted Lyons, the leader with a 173, was 100 innings short of Hughson.