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...but do they realize how woeful they project to be offensively next year? They got Sabathia, Burnett....still talking about Sheets and Lowe.
And yet I'm looking at Arod, 5-6 OPSers of 100-110 (if lucky) and a season of Gardner and *Betemit-like players in the other positions.
*I know, he was traded.
For once, the Yankees have to rely on their pitching and not their hitting.
Maybe they are learning? they've shelled out coin and talent to get sluggers for years (Matsui, Giambi, Abreu, Sheffield, Nady, A-Rod) and despite slugging their way to the playoffs, pitching was a second-tier priority (Pettite, Mussina, etc - though impressive, are not the most elite). They fit their rotation with good #2 and #3 guys - Clemens, Johnson- and tried some other solutions for #4 guys - Pavano, Kevin Brown.
It looks like they are realizing that pitching gets you farther, which is good for them. But in the case of their lineup...it is missing some thunder. Even with a stellar rotation, an OK offense and OK bullpen might drag them out of contention.
The yanks will be fine offensively IMHO.
C: Posada still ranks amongst the top 5 offensive catchers in the game, probably the top 2 or 3. Have to assume the injury won't recur or linger.
1B: Swisher is OK...though I think they will find another. Defense will be the priority here.
2B: Cano is amongst the top 3-5 offensive 2B in the game. He did struggle last season, but to be fair you have to look at his prior 3-4 years.
SS: Jeter...nuff said.
3B: Best hitter in the game.
LF: Matsui/Damon...both above average.
CF: Looks like Cameron will be a done deal sooner rather than later.
RF: Nady is a good hitting OF'er, not spectacular but solid.
DH: Matsui/Damon/Gardner/Etc...they will add another bat.
Anyhow......maybe not the most prolific offence in the game but when your C, 2B, SS, and 3B are in the top 5 offensively in the league at their respective positions...it isn't all that bad, in fact their offense should still be amongst the best in the league. The problem with the yanks last year was their offense underperforming. I venture a guess these guys will hit mroe like their usual form this year.
I wouldn't consider Posada top 5 offensively, rarely is. He just had that great season a couple years ago. He's not up there with guys like McCann, Martin, Soto, just to name a few.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
But still, besides his position, their offense is similar to other good teams in the league and with the pitching that they now have (if it produces as expected), they will be a team to reckon with.
Say what?????!!!!!!?????:eek::eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by bucher34
You obviously aren't aware of how many poor offensive catchers there are throughout the league. As you quoted, I said top 5 and Posada is most certainly top 5....and historically is definetly on par with the three you linked, which are of the few decent offensive catchers in all of baseball.
Research the catchers in the game.....i think it'll surprise you.
He may HAVE BEEN top 5 in the AL, but I don't see his health holding out much longer as missed 3 quarters of the season last year.
Look back at those late 90's teams that won titles for New York...good pitching, but not exactly an awe-inspiring batting order overall. They made sure their pitching and bench were good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
Decent? Those guys are great offensive catchers, I don't know how you can get much better AND they are all young, whereas Posada is nearing 40.
It is not an awful lineup, I mean it won't inspire much fear, but A-Rod and Swisher have good power, and really, like Arctic said, it looks more like the Yanks of the 90's. Heres to hoping Sabathia becomes the new Irabu.
I have to agree with bucher on the topic of catchers. Posada isn't a top-offensive catcher anymore, if he ever was. McCann, Martin, Soto, Mauer, Pierzynski are all guys I can name off the top of my head that are definitely better than Posada, and I'm sure if I actually looked into it more I could find 2 or 3 more. Posada's age isn't ignorable either. Not many catcher's stay anywhere close to productive when they get to be the age Posada is at. He's going to be on the decline this season, it's just a matter of if it's a Varitek-esque falloff or not.
Pierzynski? No. Never has been. Never will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by YEAH DAAAAWG
This really depends on how Posada ages and how he's recovered from his injury, but Posada, over the past few years (AND for his entire career) has undoubtedly been a top-5 offensive catcher.
Over the last 4 seasons, here are the top catchers sorted by OPS+, minimum of 500 plate appearances (yes, this is so Geovany Soto is included).
1) Joe Mauer 128
2) Jorge Posada 127
3) Brian McCann 122
4) Victor Martinez 121
4) Mike Napoli 121
4) Geovany Soto 121
7) Ryan Doumit 109
8) Russell Martin 108
8) Mike Piazza 108
10) Javy Lopez 107
Posada's career OPS+ is 124. All-time for players that have played 75% of their games behind the plate, that ranks tied for 8th with Roy Campanella (behind Mike Piazza, Mickey Cochrane, Bill Dickey, Johnny Bench, Gabby Hartnett, Yogi Berra, and Ernie Lombardi).
Posada is arguably a top-10 all-time OFFENSIVE catcher. He's easily top 5 among active players. In terms of going forward, maybe not. I'd put Mauer, Soto, Martin, Martinez, McCann, Doumit, and Napoli above him, because of the injury and his age, but he certainly has the potential to be a top 5 offensive catcher this year.
Yes, they are great offensive 'catchers'. I said they are decent offensively in respect to the great offensive players at other positions throughout the league. At their respective position, they are great as is Posada. Too many look at a catchers numbers and relate them with offense of others at other positions and don't realize how poor catchers in general hit in comparison to those other positions.Quote:
Decent? Those guys are great offensive catchers, I don't know how you can get much better AND they are all young, whereas Posada is nearing 40.
Jorge had one season in which he got hurt and suddenly you guys want to throw out the 10 or so consecutive seasons in which he was amongst the top offensive catchers at his position.
This is amazing to me.Quote:
I have to agree with bucher on the topic of catchers. Posada isn't a top-offensive catcher anymore, if he ever was.
I'm not comparing them to other positions, I'm comparing them to Posada.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
Are they not doing the same with Ortiz of Boston after this past season?
You think Mike Napoli is actually as good or will be as good as those others on the list? Ugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
What he said (pointing up).Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
I honestly am baffled at people underrating Posada. To say he wasn't a top offensive catcher over his career is one of the more rediculous uneducated claims i've seen in these forums. Please, don't take offense to that, it's merely fact. Look at the company Posada keeps (pointing up again to HGM's post).
The guy just two years ago had one of the best offensive years for a catcher in recent memory. Yes he was hurt last year.....but all i'm saying is that his age needs to be taken into the same consideration as his consistency. Some of the catchers you've mentioned (Soto for one) have not yet demonstrated a hair of the unbelievable consistency Posada has over his career. Take out last season, and his last four or five years are clearly amongst the leagues top 5 offensively. I'll agree...one has to worry about his injury & age, but if I were a betting man i'll take his consistency and ride with it that he'll come back and have a good year.
First off, I'm talking strictly OFFENSIVELY. He's a career .248/.362/.493 hitter. Secondly, those are the players I'd project as having better offensive seasons than Jorge Posada. That does not mean that I think Napoli is going to be as good as those other guys. I think he'll be worse than them, but they'll all be better than Posada.Quote:
Originally Posted by bucher34
I agree with the thought that Ortiz is being 'undervalued' because of his injury. I would bet more that he comes back strong however wrist/hand injuries that 'linger' as his had are concerning.Quote:
Originally Posted by bucher34
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Alright, just needed some clarification, thanks. I fully agree with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
Okay, okay, I agree that he has been good. It must be my Yankee "unbias" and my boredom with Jorge that has me going against him. He's good, I know the stats and all that and he does fall into the top tier over the last decade. I just don't like to think of Yankees that way.
I'm predicting he won't be able to catch and will go from a productive C to a mediocre 1B/DH.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Ok, whoever said Perzynski is good, I am going to throw my shoe at you. He IS EVIL!
But still fairly good.
*Throws Shoe at Bucher*Quote:
Originally Posted by bucher34
Posada? or Napoli? I've heard nothing but solid things about Napoli's defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavelb1
Posada.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Jeter.. nuff said??? You mean a .280 hitting shorstop with little power.. and plus he's one of the worst fielding shortstops now.Quote:
The yanks will be fine offensively IMHO.
C: Posada still ranks amongst the top 5 offensive catchers in the game, probably the top 2 or 3. Have to assume the injury won't recur or linger.
1B: Swisher is OK...though I think they will find another. Defense will be the priority here.
2B: Cano is amongst the top 3-5 offensive 2B in the game. He did struggle last season, but to be fair you have to look at his prior 3-4 years.
SS: Jeter...nuff said.
3B: Best hitter in the game.
LF: Matsui/Damon...both above average.
CF: Looks like Cameron will be a done deal sooner rather than later.
RF: Nady is a good hitting OF'er, not spectacular but solid.
DH: Matsui/Damon/Gardner/Etc...they will add another bat.
Anyhow......maybe not the most prolific offence in the game but when your C, 2B, SS, and 3B are in the top 5 offensively in the league at their respective positions...it isn't all that bad, in fact their offense should still be amongst the best in the league. The problem with the yanks last year was their offense underperforming. I venture a guess these guys will hit mroe like their usual form this year.
Nady, Matsui, Arod are the only hitters I see hitting for big numbers
Swisher will fail to reach the .240s
Posada is deestined to decline sooner or later.. catchers decline steeply in terms of offense unless they put him at DH half the year
Cano I think will bounce back having .320 season but his power won't compensate
Damon will put up something along the line of .270 .340 15HR
The lineup needs someone like say.. Manny Ramirez. This lineup won't get the Yankees up to World Series.
Yankees did make the right choice on going for top flight pitchers which took only about 8 years for Cashman to figure out.. what a dumbbutt. But I still don't think AJ Burnett will pitch all 3 season healthily. He's bound to get injured sometime. CC signing was a great one though, he will perform for the Yankees and in the playoffs unless he's overused like the Brewers did to him.
Im still taking the Rays. They reached the WS and I think they are not even at their full potential as a team yet.
Hmmm....the first sentence of this post renders it completely uninformed and useless. Jeter hasn't hit '.280' ish since lets see.........1995!! In that year, his first he played in like 15 games. In the 13 years since he has hit below .300 only 3 times, and never in the '.280's'. He's a good bet yearly for 200 hits give or take. And this thread is about offense, not defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by flatcap
As I said....the first sentence really is so poor the whole post should be disqualified, but i'll continue none the less.
Hmmm...if Nady, Matsui, and ARod hit for 'big numbers' as you prophetize, they should be in pretty good shape. Especially since you claim that Cano will hit .320 and Damon will hit 15 Dingers and a .270 ish avg. and those apparently AREN'T big numbers! The Pasada post made absolutely no sense....but if Cano, and Damon do as you claim, Jeter hits his usually 200 hits, and Nady, Matsui and Arod have 'big numbers' in comparison to Canos .320avg. not being big....then this offense will be scary. Even with Posada and Swisher doing nothing.
Thanks for playing ;)
Nady is not going to hit for big numbers. I love how a half-year BABIP spike automatically can turn a player from a platoon bat to a superstar. :rolleyes:
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Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
*Roundhouse kicks it back*