Re: MLB's 10 Greatest Shortstops of All Time
Honestly... and this is from a Jeter HATER... he is a HOFer NOW
Code:
Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1995 21 NYY AL 15 48 5 12 4 1 0 7 0 0 3 11 .250 .294 .375 74 18 0 0 0 0 0
1996 22 NYY AL 157 582 104 183 25 6 10 78 14 7 48 102 .314 .370 .430 101 250 6 9 1 9 13 RoY-1
1997 23 NYY AL 159 654 116 190 31 7 10 70 23 12 74 125 .291 .370 .405 103 265 8 2 0 10 14 MVP-24
1998 24 NYY AL 149 626 127 203 25 8 19 84 30 6 57 119 .324 .384 .481 127 301 3 3 1 5 13 MVP-3,AS
1999 25 NYY AL 158 627 134 219 37 9 24 102 19 8 91 116 .349 .438 .552 153 346 3 6 5 12 12 MVP-6,AS
2000 26 NYY AL 148 593 119 201 31 4 15 73 22 4 68 99 .339 .416 .481 128 285 3 3 4 12 14 MVP-10,AS
2001 27 NYY AL 150 614 110 191 35 3 21 74 27 3 56 99 .311 .377 .480 123 295 5 1 3 10 13 MVP-10,AS
2002 28 NYY AL 157 644 124 191 26 0 18 75 32 3 73 114 .297 .373 .421 111 271 3 3 2 7 14 AS
2003 29 NYY AL 119 482 87 156 25 3 10 52 11 5 43 88 .324 .393 .450 125 217 3 1 2 13 10 MVP-21
2004 30 NYY AL 154 643 111 188 44 1 23 78 23 4 46 99 .292 .352 .471 114 303 16 2 1 14 19 MVP-13,AS
2005 31 NYY AL 159 654 122 202 25 5 19 70 14 5 77 117 .309 .389 .450 125 294 7 3 3 11 15 MVP-10
2006 32 NYY AL 154 623 118 214 39 3 14 97 34 5 69 102 .343 .417 .483 132 301 7 4 4 12 13 SS,MVP-2,AS
2007 33 NYY AL 156 639 102 206 39 4 12 73 15 8 56 100 .322 .388 .452 121 289 3 2 3 14 21 SS,MVP-11,AS
2008 34 NYY AL 150 596 88 179 25 3 11 69 11 5 52 85 .300 .363 .408 102 243 7 4 0 9 24 SS,AS
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
14 Seasons 8025 2535 57 1002 75 1376 .316 .387 .458 120 74 43 29 138 195
1985 1467 411 206 275 813 3678
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
162 Game Avg 655 120 207 34 5 17 82 22 6 66 112 .316 .387 .458 120 300 6 4 2 11 16
Career High 159 654 134 219 44 9 24 102 34 12 91 125 .349 .438 .552 153 346 16 9 5 14 24
I wouldn't put him top 10 my any means but... he has been a very good hitter in a position that is not know for hitting. will have 250 HR and 250 Steals which is not to shabby for a SS. Also I guarentee they take into acount leadership... and how many other guys have led their teams like he has.
also not many people can average 200 hits for 14 years .38 OBP is also very good
Re: MLB's 10 Greatest Shortstops of All Time
He's great offensively, but he's not a top 10 if we are talking about all-around. There is no doubt in my mind that he will be a first ballot, but his defense is and always was below average.
Re: MLB's 10 Greatest Shortstops of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheNamelessPoet
Honestly... and this is from a Jeter HATER... he is a HOFer NOW
I wouldn't call myself a Jeter hater, but I do think that he's over-rated. Still, I agree that if he were to retire right now for some reason, he'd still merit induction to the Hall based on what he's already done.
Re: MLB's 10 Greatest Shortstops of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
filihok
That doesn't mean that ALL of this counts
Never said that.
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Only what he achieved as a SS
I would say it does depend on exactly how you're ranking them, but it's a semantics issue.
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Originally Posted by
ragecage
I would say Jeter is a great Yankee more than a great Shortstop.
He's a great shortstop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wassit3
agreed, if he gets 3000 hits tho he wil be a HOF and therefore have to be considered among the greats when discussing great ss...
He is and should be a HOFer even if he retires today.
Re: MLB's 10 Greatest Shortstops of All Time
Interesting that 4 or 5 of these 'best SS of all time' are MODERN players .... 1990s or 2000s. That's enough to make the list suspicious in my eyes.
Re: MLB's 10 Greatest Shortstops of All Time
Wagner behind A-Rod?
Wagner would of been a beast of a home run hitter in this era.
I also think many of the early shortstops in the turn of the century, get discounted cause of the perceived lack of great defense. I would love to have seen Ozzie Smith or Omar Vizquel play with the gloves they played with back then.
Re: MLB's 10 Greatest Shortstops of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bucher34
Are we talking all-around or just offensive?
Oh I am not going to open up THAT can of worms :), I will say this tho, in my opinion a HOFer is great by definition
Re: MLB's 10 Greatest Shortstops of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
reflections
Wagner behind A-Rod?
Wagner would of been a beast of a home run hitter in this era.
I also think many of the early shortstops in the turn of the century, get discounted cause of the perceived lack of great defense. I would love to have seen Ozzie Smith or Omar Vizquel play with the gloves they played with back then.
I totally agree with both parts of your statement even tho, in another thread where we were discussing how good any hitter from that era would or would not be today, I think Wagner might not be quiet as good overall as he was in his day vs. todays players I do think hewould probably still be pretty dang good and a power hitter...
Re: MLB's 10 Greatest Shortstops of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
reflections
I also think many of the early shortstops in the turn of the century, get discounted cause of the perceived lack of great defense. I would love to have seen Ozzie Smith or Omar Vizquel play with the gloves they played with back then.
Bill Dahlen is victim of this. Great defensive shortstop around the turn-of-the-century PLUS had a solid bat. He should be in the Hall and is one of the best shortstops to ever play, but he's not, and is ALWAYS overlooked.
Re: MLB's 10 Greatest Shortstops of All Time
I like Bill James list better then the Hall of Merits, as I feel Larkin is a bordeline hall of famer potentially, and one of the better SS to play.
Re: MLB's 10 Greatest Shortstops of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wassit3
I thought this was an interesting knock on Vizquel:
"10. Omar Vizquel
Vizquel is the second greatest defensive shortstop behind the great Ozzie Smith. In his 20-year career with the Seattle Mariners, Cleveland Indians, and San Francisco Giants, he has won eleven gold glove awards and was selected to the three All Star teams. He has a .273 career average along with 77 home runs, 892 RBI's, 1361 runs scored, 2657 base hits and 385 stolen bases. However, he could never win a championship, losing in 1995 and 1997 with the Cleveland Indians. "
I think it's more interesting that they neglected to mention he's played more games at short than anybody in the history of the game.
Re: MLB's 10 Greatest Shortstops of All Time
Jeter belongs in the top 10 but I take Cal over A-Rod
Re: MLB's 10 Greatest Shortstops of All Time
Re: MLB's 10 Greatest Shortstops of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RedsoxRockies
I like Bill James list better then the Hall of Merits, as I feel Larkin is a bordeline hall of famer potentially, and one of the better SS to play.
Larkin hasn't yet been inducted to the Hall of Merit because he hasn't been retired long enough. He'll be on their ballot, AND will definitely get in next year.
Re: MLB's 10 Greatest Shortstops of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cartman00000001
Jeter belongs in the top 10 but I take Cal over A-Rod
:confused:
