http://bleacherreport.com/articles/8...ps-of-all-time
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I thought this was an interesting knock on Vizquel:
"10. Omar Vizquel
Vizquel is the second greatest defensive shortstop behind the great Ozzie Smith. In his 20-year career with the Seattle Mariners, Cleveland Indians, and San Francisco Giants, he has won eleven gold glove awards and was selected to the three All Star teams. He has a .273 career average along with 77 home runs, 892 RBI's, 1361 runs scored, 2657 base hits and 385 stolen bases. However, he could never win a championship, losing in 1995 and 1997 with the Cleveland Indians. "
Alex Rodriguez is not a shortstop and he hasn't been for 5 years!!
That type of "knock" is always ridiculous.
Bill James Top 10, from ~2001:
1) Honus Wagner
2) Arky Vaughan
3) Cal Ripken
4) Robin Yount
5) Ernie Banks
6) Barry Larkin
7) Ozzie Smith
8) Joe Cronin
9) Alan Trammell
10) Pee Wee Reese
The Hall of Merit ranking, with Negro Leaguers removed (doesn't include active players):
1) Honus Wagner
2) Cal Ripken
3) Arky Vaughan
4) George Davis
5) Bill Dahlen
6) Robin Yount
7) Luke Appling
8) George Wright
9) Joe Cronin
10) Ernie Banks
The list in your link is good, but I don't think Vizquel comes close to the top 10. There's no way to argue that Vizquel was better than the likes of Dahlen, Davis, Wright, Cronin, Appling, Yount, etc. I also think it undervalues Vaughan.
But he was for 1,272 games, which is more than Ernie Banks played at short.Quote:
Originally Posted by eggson27
That doesn't mean that ALL of this countsQuote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Only what he achieved as a SSQuote:
ARod is likely to end up as the greatest player of all time. So far in his 15-year career for the Seattle Mariners, Texas Rangers, and New York Yankees, he has a .306 average, 553 home runs, 1606 RBI's, 1605 runs scored, 2404 base hits and 283 stolen bases and he still is on contract for NINE MORE seasons. He has been selected to the All Star team 12 times, starting at shortstop in four of them.
He has also won nine Silver Slugger Awards throughout the 90's and 2000's. He has also won five home run titles, two RBI titles and five runs titles. He also was an above average defensive player as he won back-to-back Gold Gloves in the early 2000's and three MVP awards. He has had a 40-40 season and eight 40-plus home runs seasons along with two 50-plus homer seasons
neither list has Jeter, I am mildly surprised...Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
I don't believe Larkin is one of the ten best either, good but not top 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wassit3
Not surprising Jeter came up, horrible defense but hey he's a Yank so throw him in there.
yes but his hitting is good for a ss and he is the popular "it" boy of the media...Quote:
Originally Posted by bucher34
I would say Jeter is a great Yankee more than a great Shortstop.
agreed, if he gets 3000 hits tho he wil be a HOF and therefore have to be considered among the greats when discussing great ss...Quote:
Originally Posted by ragecage
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Quote:The first list is from 2001 - Jeter hadn't played enough. The second list explicitly excludes active players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wassit3
Larkin was pretty darn good in his day though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wassit3
Are we talking all-around or just offensive?