That'd make no sense at all on their part.Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelg123789
Youk at 1st
Ortiz at DH
Drew in RF
Lowell at 3B
They'd stick someone in LF?
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That'd make no sense at all on their part.Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelg123789
Youk at 1st
Ortiz at DH
Drew in RF
Lowell at 3B
They'd stick someone in LF?
Who knows how Lowell will return from his injury...plus, they'd likely also then look to trade Lowell. You also have to factor in that Drew, Ortiz, and Lowell are all likely to miss some time to injury at some point during the year.Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
They would unfortunately likely end up trading Lowell :( and moving Youk to 3rd base. However, I am against signing Texiera, as we have Lars Anderson, who we better not trade, because he rivals Matt Weiters as one of the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
I hate this, CC Sabathia, the person who I thought actually cared about where he plays, how it fits his family, wasn't about the money, took the highest offer from the Yanks. I hate this, my favorite player on the brewers go to the yankees, and now we have to listen to all these fans saying how there team is going to win the world series. CC Sabathia doesn't make a team, he's not worth 160 million, he's not even worth 100 million. Sabathia had 2 good seasons. 1 of which was in the NL. Sabathia from 01-05 never had a ERA better then 3.6, and the other 3 were above 4 ERA. His whip near 1.3. Sabathia the person who I thought doesn't care about the money, I was wrong about him. And now, Sabathia, your just like every other player who leaves for the money, and I say a **** you to you and hope you have a terrible season in New York.
To answer your question as to why Houston, it just seems like whoever signs a big contract and goes to New York doesnt work out. I think a big portion is the media, they put so much pressure on those players, I dont see how Rivera and Jeter do what they do in that environment.
the thing is... he has an opt out clause and has for him guarenteed 160... now if it was 120 and others offered 100 id say its about the $$$ but if its 60% more than anyone else i hate to say t but i gotta side with him. after 3 years he opts out and signs again for 5-6 years at a relative young age again
You're overrating your guy just a tad.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
The players that have signed big contracts in NY, off the top of my head...Giambi, Pavano, Wright, A-Rod, Jeter, Rivera, Damon....Pavano, Giambi and Wright all got injured, and Wright and Pavano especially were poor signings to begin with....A-Rod, Jeter, Damon and Rivera have all done fine. I'm probably missing some guys from recent years, but the prevailing reason why the big Yankee deals haven't worked is injury, which is entirely unrelated to the media.Quote:
Originally Posted by ragecage
He's easily worth 100 million, and may very well be worth 160 million.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewCrewFan255
He's had 3 fantastic seasons, half of one of which was in the NL.Quote:
Sabathia had 2 good seasons. 1 of which was in the NL.
Right. Between the ages 20 and 24, he was a slightly above league average pitcher, which, for a guy that young with his pedigree is an excellent sign for the future. In 2006, he showed significant improvement in both his walk rate and his strikeout rate, both of which have continued to improve. He's NOT the same pitcher he was between the ages of 20-24, so pointing to those years is meaningless. He's one of the top 3 starters in the game without a doubt.Quote:
Sabathia from 01-05 never had a ERA better then 3.6, and the other 3 were above 4 ERA. His whip near 1.3.
Hey man think about it... What would you do in his case? I had the same thing happen when Johnny Damon turned Yankee. But really, what would you do in their case? I know that most of us would go for more money, especially in this bad economic situation. I still like Johnny, even though he is a Yank. He has a life to consider, and we don't make his decisions. So don't let this make you hate him. i am not saying that i would sign with the Yankee, seeing as I hate the city and the team, but if another team offered me a lot of money, chances are, unless Boston or Colorado was offering me something, I would take it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewCrewFan255
If you think about it this way, the Brewers offered 5/100 which is 20 million per year, Yankees offered about 22 million per year. Now, your signed with the Yanks for 7 years, while for the Brewers 5 years and they were willing to do the opt-out also after 3 years. So now you get to play closer to home, play in a clubhouse your familar with and where you would be the star in Wisconsin for a long time. In New York, your just considered a player, and they will boo you no matter what after 1 bad game. I would pick a place where I would want to bat, and a place where im comfortable in, for 3 million less. It's not like you can't live off of 20 million per year, compared to 23 million per year.Quote:
Hey man think about it... What would you do in his case? I had the same thing happen when Johnny Damon turned Yankee. But really, what would you do in their case? I know that most of us would go for more money, especially in this bad economic situation. I still like Johnny, even though he is a Yank. He has a life to consider, and we don't make his decisions. So don't let this make you hate him. i am not saying that i would sign with the Yankee, seeing as I hate the city and the team, but if another team offered me a lot of money, chances are, unless Boston or Colorado was offering me something, I would take it.
Houston, no player is worth 160 million, that's just ridiculous. Not one player.
According to you, sure. According to the market, yes, they easily can be.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewCrewFan255
I didn't say that players won't get that type of money, I just don't think any player is worth that much. When Silva gets 11 million per year, you know something's wrong with the market.
Yes he isQuote:
Originally Posted by BrewCrewFan255
A guy who pitches 25 games, is worth 100 million? Maybe I should learn how to pitch then.
CC the Yankee!!!
WoooooooooHoooooooooooo!
He was on the Brewers for less than one year. Everyone knew this was happening. He was neve going to sign with the Brewers.....if he had that loyalty or whatever you were wanting..he'd have signed an extension with his real team..the Indians. Quit crying.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewCrewFan255
http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/salaries/top50Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewCrewFan255
Look at the salaries of MLB players. Now just speaking strictly of an 100 million dollar deal, it would be worth it. Remember, Sabathia is a young ace who's proved his is durable both in the AL and NL.
BTW, it did kind of seem like you thought he was worth 100 million or more previously. At the very least, a 90 million dollar offer was "embarassing"
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewCrewFan255
AgreedQuote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
I feel sorry for Brewer fans here, but everyone knew Sabathia was going to be a rental.
But I am just glad the Yankees finally have the ace they desperately needed, and this allows Wang to become a number two starter!
I don't care if we overpaid. The Yankees have the payroll room to do that. Fact is, we have a young ace in the prime of his career. Whoo
For shame CC... for shame... you have to be a serious scumbag to sign with the Stankees.
You are rightQuote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
Everyone should not sign with the Yankees. If you ever become a player in Sabathia's caliber, and become a free agent, I can't wait to see you leave 60 million on the table to not sign with the Yankees
Typical Yankee bias
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewCrewFan255
I have to agree with Koop. Come on, it's common sense. There was little to no chance that the Brewers would end up signing Sabathia and remaining competitive while devoting that much of their payroll to him. They "made the attempt" and C.C. said he "enjoyed his time in Milwaukee". They always say and do that... both sides. The team makes and offer and can say "we tried our best" and the player can have another option that way. The Brewers knew this could happen when they traded for him, and I would hope all of their fans did as well!Quote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
There's also a reason that it took THREE MEETINGS with C.C. Sabathia for the Yankees to sign him. There's a reason he didn't jump at the contract the moment it was offered. THAT's what I found surprising and interesting about C.C. Sabathia. THAT tells me that he's not only about the money. Maybe, just maybe, he really was considering what was the best fit for him and his family... and his wife was included in the final meeting as well. Being that he hadn't lived or pitched in New York before (aside from a couple of times per season), it makes perfect sense that he wanted to do his research, talk to management, talk to players, to see what it's like. Who wouldn't do their research before making a huge decision like this?!? The largest contract does not equal a player not caring about his family.
I dunno. 60 million is an impressive figure, but I'm not sure looking at the final figure is valid. It's more accurate to look at his yearly salary.Quote:
Originally Posted by defense
The Yanks offered him $22m. The Brewers $20. I don't know what the Dodgers and Giants were ready to put on the table. We're really looking at a $2m/year difference ... and once you're making this kind of money, how much do you really need?
You can argue that the final salary figure (160) matters in case Sabathia takes a sudden nose dive or gets injured. Security (7 yrs vs. 5) is certainly an issue, but I think it hurts CC also.
Let's say in 3 yrs CC DOES want out, and for the sake of argument he's still an elite pitcher. So far so good...but he's just made $23m/yr for the last 3 years. How many teams are going to be willing/able to bid for him at that rate?
But when these guys did play, they didnt perform as well as they did with their prior clubs. Why is that?Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
omg its catknight!!Quote:
Originally Posted by catknight
I haven't read any post, but when I woke up, I watch SportsCenter and saw Breaking News (Sabathia To Yanks). I was sorta surprised, but the deal was giant. I mean the Yanks have the money but if he starts doing what Dontrelle Willis did, the Yanks will be real sorry. I would've suggested a shorter, less- cash deal but whatever.
Yeah, but if they offered him a shorter, less cash deal it's more likely he wouldn't have signed with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigBomber
Which guys? Giambi did, until he got hurt. A-Rod did. Pavano and Wright were never all that good to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by ragecage
Still rejoicing with this one! Glad the Yanks got him!
Giambi didnt do that great in NY. He batted over .290 for Oakland in 6 of his 7 seasons while Giambi only did that once in New York, his first season. He was always booed by fans and the media gave Giambi grief. You think when Giambi was healthy that the media didnt affect him?Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
You will disagree, but there are outside factors to players performances. I look at it in simple terms. You go to job A, your asked to do your job and thats it and you perform well and are beloved by fans and teammates. You go to job B, your asked to do your job, talk to media every day about the same topic which most of the time is negative, your not beloved by fans but booed constantly, you eventually hear it from management.
You say you wouldnt be affected by that? I dont think so.
I think pitchers have it worse, what do they do when they get an ear full about their performance. They start trying to throw the ball through a wall and leads to mechanic issues, and then injury.
Giambi's first season was directly in line with his Oakland performance. The second year, yes, his batting average dropped. That happens to players all the time for any number of reasons, including pure chance. Then, he got hurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by ragecage
I wouldn't disagree with that. I'd just simply say that it's impossible for us to know which players would be and are affected by it and how, without them specifically acknowledging it, which barely any athlete would do.Quote:
You will disagree, but there are outside factors to players performances.
Did Giambi get hurt? My recollection was:Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Really good
stopped doing steroids
Bad, they wanted to send him down, he refused
Got good again and carried the team
And last year was just streaky, but overall good.
He was still pretty good last year, I think whoever gets him is going to do well by him.
Ok I can agree with that. Maybe CC can overcome the NY spotlight. I remain skeptical about him though.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
He played in 80 games in 2004, and then 83 in 2007. Yes, he got hurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavelb1
Giambi hit over 200 HR's in 7 seasons in NY*. I don't know how to do splits by team, but he was pretty damn good. Was he worth a kajillion dollars? no, but I don't think Jeter is either...merchandise income or no...Quote:
Originally Posted by ragecage
*And he led the league in HBP last year!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragecage
Giambi has performed very well for the Yanks. He's recovered from the whole steroid thing and has come out of it still hitting home runs. He had two 40+ home run years in his first two with the Yanks and his three other full seasons (he's had two other injury seasons only playing half each season) he's hit over 30 home runs. That's what they signed him for is to hit homers and drive people in. He's a quality 1B/DH and I would take him on my team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragecage
Giambi was never really the "spotlight" player when he joined the Yanks. He was a blockbuster first baseman, but there wasn't a media frenzy around him like A-Rod, Jeter, or Randy Johnson. Its a toss up with CC, just look at how bad Randy dropped off when joining the Yanks as the media got to him. CC seems to have a cool head, but you never know.
And see, how do we know THE MEDIA got to him? I see him moving from the NL to the AL in his early 40's, a rise in his home run rate which is easily connected to the league switch, and excellent strikeout and walk numbers as always. Did the media make him serve up more longballs? Or was it the fact that he switched to the tougher league?Quote:
Originally Posted by bucher34
Its always been part of the equation you either earn your money or you dont. Based on Giambi's contract, he did not earn his money. Yes he was good, not like when he was with my team, but good.
He really should have done much better with the protection he had around him. I dont know though, you can say Tejada and Chavie was pretty good protection to have as well.
ill let bucher take this argument...again...lol :pQuote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
He had a few incidents with the media during his short tenure in New York. I guess I didn't mean to say it got to him, but his reactions in certain situations really seemed like it did.
Maybe it did, but we can't really know if or how it affected his performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by bucher34