http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/11/2...-yankees-1-20/
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Good list but no way Joba is #1! He hasn't shown enough to rank that high yet!
The guy who wrote is arguing that is precisely why he is #1, from what I can gather from the article. His success is extremely important to the organization, not just from a talent/on-field perspective, but also because he's being looked to (by the guy who wrote the article at least) to carry the Yankee torch once the Jeter's and Posada's are gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD
This is an interesting article.
The Yankees will be back next year. They have money. They have some extremely talented young players. And they're the Yankees. As much as I have to hate them, it's good for baseball when they're competing.
Yes they will be back NEXT year but solely due to their actual talent (A Rod/Rivera/Wang) plus their FA pickups (CC ? Lowe ? Burnett ?)Quote:
Originally Posted by justanewguy
However,I disagree with
Actually the Yankees at the moment are relatively barren (compared to other teams) & most of their talent is at A/AA.The MLB "young guys" have either failed eg Melky/Cano/Kennedy or have limited upside eg Gardner/Aceves/Veras etcQuote:
Originally Posted by justanewguy
IMHO their young talent can be limited to 2 names - Joba & Hughes & that is less than most teams (see Rays but also Red Sox/A's even the Angels) :D
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by FRENCHREDSOX
I mean THREE guys when I say this. Joba, Hughes and Cano have the make of HOFers. Not saying any one of them (let alone all three) will be HOFers, but those three are absolutely unique talents that could be the future faces of that franchise (a successful one) for years to come. I don't think Cano has failed (one down year is NOT a failure), and I think Kennedy can still be successful. I never believed in Melky, so I don't count him in this conversation at all.Quote:
However,I disagree with
Actually the Yankees at the moment are relatively barren (compared to other teams) & most of their talent is at A/AA.The MLB "young guys" have either failed eg Melky/Cano/Kennedy or have limited upside eg Gardner/Aceves/Veras etc
IMHO their young talent can be limited to 2 names - Joba & Hughes & that is less than most teams (see Rays but also Red Sox/A's even the Angels) :D
Well,that is different from what you posted (no disrespect).Of the 3 only Joba,has delivered SO FAR.Quote:
Originally Posted by justanewguy
Cano's "superstardom" took a hit in 08 & he could go in any direction & Hughes is well a semi-bust (say compared to Lincecum or Lester) to date.Yes,he has the talent but as yet hasn't shown it & his injury record,for such a young arm,is worrysome to say the least.
If one remembers he was the reason that Santana is NOT a Yankee,1 year on if you ask Cashman if he would revisit that deal I bet his answer would different.;)
But overall the YANKEES have a mid level based Prospect system AT BEST - from BA
that is good but not great (although Jackson looks like a stud) especially when you consider they failed to sign their #1 & #3 from the 08 draft & that Brackman has NEVER pitched in minor ball & is coming off TJ surgery.Quote:
1. Austin Jackson, of
2. Jesus Montero, c
3. Andrew Brackman, rhp
4. Austin Romine, c
5. Dellin Betances, rhp
6. Zach McAllister, rhp
7. Alfredo Aceves, rhp
8. Phil Coke, lhp
9. Mark Melancon, rhp
10. Bradley Suttle, 3b
No disrespect taken. But it's not quite different. Those are young players, and all are incredible talents. I wasn't really saying their entire farm system was fantastic, I was saying that in 2009 they had enough incredible young talent, enough money, and enough veteran talent (ARod, Rivera, Damon) to be "back." I don't think the Yankees farm system ever matters *that* much, because they're the Yankees, and they can easily buy talent when it runs short in the farm system.Quote:
Originally Posted by FRENCHREDSOX
But, concerning the Yankees in 2008, and how they may do in 2009... how soon some forget (not you [FSR], I'm talking in general) that the Yankees won 89 games last season while playing in baseball's best division (far and away), and would have won 2 out of the 6 divisions in baseball with that many wins, and probably could have won half the divisions in baseball (could have won the AL East if they played there). How soon some forget that they still have the best player in baseaball, more money (by FAR) than any other team in baseball, and the necessity to WIN (more than any other team in baseball).
Cano, Hughes, and Chamberlin have the makings of HOFers?!?!??!
Cano is a nice player...definitely good..but he's got a long long long ways to go and improve before being HOF level.
Hughes is the definitin of EPIC FAIL and overhype so far..though potential is there..it may be a wee bit early for this.
Chamberlin is a good reliever who hasn't proven he can stay healthy as a starter. Good player...let's not go overboard.
Let's not act like the Yanks are on the verge of another dynasty. Plenty of question remarks remain for next year and the years after. The Yanks aren't the only team with money and buying CC isn't going to make them the favorite...
I actually think Joba and Hughes may be two of baseball's more overated players by a lot.
They have HOF makes, as in, they're all absolutely topnotch talents that have shown they can perform professionally. I'm not saying they're going to be in the HOF. The huge majority of players that can be said to have HOF makeup will never sniff the HOF.Quote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
I, myself, don't see dynasty, but I see absolutely no reason to think they can't make the playoffs next season, or the season after. No, they're not the only team with money, but they have boatloads more money than any other team.Quote:
Let's not act like the Yanks are on the verge of another dynasty. Plenty of question remarks remain for next year and the years after. The Yanks aren't the only team with money and buying CC isn't going to make them the favorite...
Hughes, yes, absolutely. Joba I think actually has and will deliver on the talent everyone believes in (unlike Hughes), but at this very point in time, he's overrated but in a different way from Hughes, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
Yea, Chamberlin is conidered by some to be like the best pitcher in baseball, but only has 124.1 innings. And the Yankees made a huge project of converting him back from reliever to starter, and it just seems people feel he has already proved everythingQuote:
Originally Posted by YEAH DAAAAWG
I don't know anybody that thinks Chamberlain is the best pitcher in baseball.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
ESPN tries to paint him like he's already an established ace (which he's obviously not).Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
I don't even see that.
I definitely have.
Although I absolutely hate mentioning the HOF with young players, and doing comparisons....in defense of those bashing Cano, prior to last season his first few seasons in NY DID COMPARE with or was better than any of the alltime great 2B's after their first 3 seasons. Last year was not a horrific year either, especially for a 2nd basemen.Quote:
Cano is a nice player...definitely good..but he's got a long long long ways to go and improve before being HOF level.
Surprised to hear that some may actually be underrating Chamberlain here. He's an immense talent but has not proven at all that he can withstand the rigors of a full season which is why the HOF or god forbid the best pitcher in the game can't at all be mentioned in a sentence with him yet.
Hughes is at a make or break point. If he doesn't get some resemblence back this year, he may end up being chalked up with a long line of youngsters as head cases. Pitching in NY with all the expectations may have gotten to him. I remember two years ago WFAN pinned the 2nd half of the season all on his shoulders as a rookie and claimed he'd lead them to the promise land. Are you kidding me??? Poor kid.
I do hate people creaming themselves over the yankees farm. Nobody truly knows anything about those very young low level prospects, so stop calling them studs or claiming they have the makings of them. The only reason people say that is because the Yanks market these young players so that they can become better trade value. How many of the young yankee prospects dealt in recent years have panned out? We know not many of the ones they kept have. Lets stop the nonsense and just call it as it is...highly highly overrated.
The kid's been battling injuries. It has nothing to do with being a head case or being killed by the pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
how do you know? insiders again?Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
facts are there was a lot of skeptisism around his injuries in the NY area last year. Even prior to the injuries he greatly underperformed and after admitting to being healthy he struggled greatly in the minors. Stuff was in the papers about his parents not liking how he was being handled. This stuff usually equals head case. So please, spare us your know-everything regarding the health and psyche of professional athletes. I never claimed it was definetly a part of the reason for his struggles, I just don't see how you have any justifyable evidence that it definetly isn't.
I'm saying that when a guy is known to have been battling a couple different injuries, the likely explanation for poor performance is that he's injured, even if he claims to be healthy. There's no need for your sarcastic "insider" comment crap.
There's no reason to try and belittle others with your high & mighty I know it all comment crap either. If you have something concrete to explain it can't be the mental aspect, then bring it. If not, don't go out there and claim it has nothing to do with it while you really have no idea one way or the other and certainly no more so than I do. It could totally be an injury issue, it could totally be a mental issue. Its likely a function of both....who knows? But there are a lot of questions regarding occurrences last year that had many in the NY media market questioning his psyche/makeup. It's not new news. If you have something which definitively rules it out (insider information), well that is news....please bring it. If not, be a bit more open minded in your comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
I'm not bothering.
All I'll say is that, for what it's worth, I'm squarely in the middle of the NY media market, and I haven't heard anything about Hughes being a headcase or having poor psychological makeup.
Oh but you are. Thanks.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
As have I. Maybe I exagerated by saying THE best, but they claim he is one of the bestQuote:
Originally Posted by YEAH DAAAAWG
Is there really any difference between Arod breaking the home run record and trying to win games? I doubt if he was asked to bunt he wouldn't which is the only way I could see this sentence working.Quote:
Will the next nine years be about chasing Barry Bonds or being part of a winner?
With all due respect... YOU brought up that he was potentially a head case and couldn't handle the pressure. The burden of proof is actually on YOU. Where is YOUR insider information?Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
first of all...with all due respect...please read the posts. I said nothing definitively. Houston came in and stated most certainly that it was solely due to injury. There's a big difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by justanewguy
Here's my post;
Here's Houstons;Quote:
If he doesn't get some resemblence back this year, he may end up being chalked up with a long line of youngsters as head cases. Pitching in NY with all the expectations may have gotten to him.
I find it insulting that the kid who whines how others constantly misunderstand him and attack him unfairly, goes in and attacks my post in such a belittling manner to so quickly and definitively disregard it. Again, my post clearly says that something 'may' be the issue, his abruptly and rudely disregards it as fact. This is not our first time down this road and there's nothing wrong with asking for him to justify his position since he so abruptly disregarded my opinion.Quote:
The kid's been battling injuries. It has nothing to do with being a head case or being killed by the pressure.
Anyhow, after Hughes 'first' injury of 08 there was tons of skepticism in the NY local radio and blog banter. First they asked Cashman if he'd be sent down, he said something to the effect where they'd have to talk about it, then it was his vision, then it was an oblique strain, then a broken rib, then it wasn't broken only an oblique and he'd be up quickly, then he'd be gone for an extended period. The radio and blogs were full of skepticism for how the Yankees were handling it and many thought it was a Cashman PR stunt to try and keep other teams from thinking it was something mental effecting Hughes vs. something small and physical. After his return he struggled in the minors, and never really regained his consistent form. His AAA numbers were 5.9 ERA and a 1.48 Whip.
Is it in his head?? Who knows?? Is it injury specific?? Again, who knows.
I took a quick look and here's quite a few links about questions regarding his 'injury' or psyche. There aren't a ton of people questioning his mental makeup, and i'm not doing that here 'definitively' either....but there's no reason to abruptly rule it out.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...ake_minor.html
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...ersons-breasts
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/0...a-chamberlain/
http://sportsfreakers.blogspot.com/2...different.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanewguy
Well, I guess the phrase "have HOF makes" is pretty vague..but to me that would lead me to think that whoever says that thinks the players are off to a HOF start to their careers. Albert Pujols has HOF makes. David Wright has HOF makes. Not a 2B with a few nice years, a pitcher who hasn't even had one good week yet (obvious exaggeration...) and a reliever who can't stay healthy in the rotation. Saying that any player with potential has HOF makes leads me to think that you'd say there's about 10+ players in the Royals system with HOF makes...which would clearly be ridiculous.
:confused:Quote:
goes in and attacks my post in such a belittling manner to so quickly and definitively disregard it.
If *any* of those three make the HOF, I'll burn every piece of Sox gear i have and walk backwards for a year while reciting the Luthren Bible in Aramaic.Quote:
Originally Posted by justanewguy
We'll hold you to it. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavelb1