http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/20/sp...cher.html?_r=1
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WOW - 6 million offer
Yeah...it's the Yankees who are the ONLY TEAM buying talent out there...:rolleyes:
If the Japanese professional league and MLB never actually put it in writing that the MLB teams could not go after Japanese amateurs and vice versa they should have know it was just a matter of time before it happened, haven't they learned anything over the centuries from dealing with us westerners??
The Nippon League never drafted him, instead he played for Japan Oil, he has every right to go to sign with a MLB Team.
Japan should not be that upset. They honored his request. They should have thought he would want to come to the States.
They're just pissed they won't get 50 to 60 million just to talk to the kid.Quote:
Originally Posted by flapper
bingoQuote:
Originally Posted by JeepGuy63
There's a cultural clash occurring here. It doesn't seem to me that the money is the primary issue to the Japanese (although, that's certainly part of it), rather it's some form of Japanese honor that we're misunderstanding.
Probably not all that dissimilar than how some people got worked up over THISQuote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
Or how the managers would tell pitchers to pitch around American players who were chasing the HR records over there. I think Alex Cabrera is an example of that? They wanted it protected.
What's the clash? NPB had a chance to sign the guy from early on and decided, for whatever reason, not to, so he went and pitched in an Industrial League. If they thought he was going to amount to anything, they had a chance to sign him and by the time they actually decided to move, it was too late. Now it is culture clash.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
I thought blaming the downfall of the Korean Baseball League on American Baseball to be a crock of ****, too. NPB has been raiding Korea of its talent as well ... it just doesn't pay as well.
Foreign players are seeing big bucks going to the more talented of Japan's players and are now looking to cash in on it earlier in their careers.
Personally, I think Hammon's story is a little bit different. She wanted to play in the Olympics which I have no problem with but she became a Naturalized Citizen without having Russian familial ties. Had she played for a country her great grandparents had been from, that is another story.Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
This guy just wants to compete against the best in the world and get paid for it. He isn't becoming an American Citizen in order to play.
That's all she wanted too was to fulfill her dream of playing in the Olympics.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepGuy63
People accused her of being a 'traitor' and being 'unpatriotic' because she played for Russia.
I'm sure many of the Japanese feel the same way about their best players leaving home to play someplace else
There's leaving home and then there's changing one's citizenship in order to play. I think those are two very different things ... now, had her parents, grandparents or some distant relative been Russian by birth, I think no one would have a problem with her playing for another country.Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
On the other hand, USA Basketball sucks in their selection of players and they flat out told Hammon they didn't want her.
Well, Tazawa isn't the first to leave his country to play in the States and he isn't changing his citizenship. NPB had their chance to sign the guy and they decided not to.
She didn't change her citizenship, she has dual citizenship.
USA Basketball had the chance to sign Hammon, and they decided not to.Quote:
NPB had their chance to sign the guy and they decided not to.
I maintain the situations are similar
USA Basketball didn't want Hammons from the start, leaving her off the list of 23 trying out for the team. That is despite having career seasons in 07 and 08. The Russian team offered her a spot when one of their players turned up pregnant. She filed for citizenship and was given a passport. She's Russian as Russia does not legally recognize dual citizenship as told to me by my Russian gf.Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
And I believe therein lies the difference.
I'm not the person to ask, since I'm not Japanese (or even really know anything about their culture)!Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepGuy63
;)
All of the reasoning for MLB teams to make bids makes perfect sense to me, but again... I'm not Japanese.
You stated the cultural clash so matter of factly, I figured you had some insider information or perhaps were of Japanese ancestory.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
I think this is purely a money thing ... the NPB doesn't get a cut from Major League teams to just talk to the guy and they lose face because they now have the beginning of young Japanese players leaving Japan to play elsewhere without anything positive coming out of it.
You won't find the problem going the other way because Japanese teams don't offer the same kind of money, have rules against foreigners and generally play the game differently. Read Slugging it Out in Japan by Warren Cromartie.
I'm fairly certain that the "they loose face" part is the largest factor, here. Not being Japanese it's hard to really say, but that's the impression that I get from reading the news about this.
That's the gist of what makes it a tough argument really, is that money isn't nearly as primary a motivator for most Japanese as it is for Americans (based on my very limited knowledge of their culture).
When you're talking several tens of millions of dollars just to talk to a player, I'd say that is a pretty big motivator.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
I'd say one young undrafted guy that no one in Japan really seemed interested in and was again undrafted when he asked the teams not to draft him when they had a second chance at him speaks volumes about the league's interest.
They had no interest in the guy and now they'll get nothing for him.
ohms is quite correct. Certainly, the fact that they won't get anything for him irks the LEAGUE AND TEAM. However, the FANS would be most upset because they sort of look at it as the guy abandoning them. Might sound ridiculous, but it's no sillier than the way fans here react when a player goes to a different team.
Just keep in mind that we're all looking at this from our cultural perspective, as well. This:
"When you're talking several tens of millions of dollars just to talk to a player" makes perfect sense to us, but it's really not more important then other issues are in some places of the world (including Japan).
But, who knows. Maybe it really is just the money... I doubt it, though.
While that is a wonderful notion, the fact of the matter is the guy pitched in an industrial league. No one even knows he exists. It isn't like he was a National Team hero and suddenly decided to jump ship because he wasn't making alot of money. This isn't an 18 year old Wayne Gretsky going to Sweden to play professionally. This guy isn't a national hero worshipped by a country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctic Blast
Here is a guy who was originally overlooked, pitched in an industrial league and his manager, a former NPB player, said he has some talent and should go play where he can challenge himself the most.
However, as ohms has also pointed out, things like this are looked at VERY differently by the Japanese public than they are here. We are much more accustomed to players being multi-million dollar mercenaries than they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepGuy63
Okay, I can understand that point and won't even try to dispute it but I will say we are discussing a player in Tazawa who has NEVER played for the Major Leagues of Japanese Baseball, not a single inning, doesn't play for the National Team and pitches for an Industrial League team which ranks where exactly compared to Minor Leagues here? Yet, for some reason, Japanese NPB executives are all up in arms because the guy wants to play in the US ... we're not talking about the average Japanese fan on the street who probably has never heard of the guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctic Blast
I thought it was funny that Brian Cashman is the sole defender of this "agreement" that is suddenly being bandied about between US and Japanese baseball considering the Yankees have a "working agreement" with the baseball executives who are screaming the loudest.
When you get right down to it, the only people killing Japanese Baseball are the Japanese.
That, I certainly agree with.Quote:
When you get right down to it, the only people killing Japanese Baseball are the Japanese.
The "for some reason" part is the only thing that I'm talking about. Like I said earlier, there seems to be a Japanese notion of Honor at work here which we don't completely understand.
And like I said earlier, I don't think this is an honor thing, this is pure and simply a money deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
Just like the Hiroshima Toyo Carp sued Alfonso Soriano's manager when they realized they were not only losing a player but also weren't being compensated in any way, shape or form. Why did Soriano leave, no honor involved here, the Carp turned out to be a cheap team and refused a raise.
The MLB is like the Yankees of world baseball. They can get anyone who is willing to go there, if they want him.
Except it's even worse, because there's more choices of places to go.
And in both cases, the hesitant can often be swayed by the money involved.
More choices but not nearly the money being thrown around as here in the MLB and certainly not the competition level. There really are very few choices if you are looking for top dollar and a high competition level.Quote:
Originally Posted by justanewguy
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ugh/index.html
Quote:
It may be difficult for American fans to fully grasp that kind of pressure to conform. Baseball is a team sport, to be sure, but U.S. training methods are perceived as lacking structure by the Japanese. Regimented practice is only the most obvious manifestation of the dedication to "the right way" in Japanese baseball. The behind-the-scenes aspects of players' lives, even with respect to those participating at the junior high school levels, is controlled and strictly organized. Breaking from "the right way" is an unthinkable act, one which most certainly would make an individual into a pariah, and so the history of this particular way goes on.
Strange that the article doesn't mention Tazawa's industrial league coach, a former NPB player, was very instrumental in his decision to look towards US rather than staying in Japan to pitch.
Also interesting there is no mention of the "agreements" between several teams to have a "first look" at players.
Not to mention the fact that Japanese Baseball is failing on a financial level and this "new way" of players leaving the Japanese system means no income generated from these players through the "Posting System".