Pedroia named AL MVP

Just for comparison - here are Youkilis'

By Day/Month AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Last 7 Days 12 3 3 0 0 2 4 2 0 4 0 0 .250 .357 .750 1.107
April 95 15 30 7 2 2 15 12 1 12 1 1 .316 .391 .495 .886
May 100 18 30 9 0 7 20 6 1 22 2 1 .300 .343 .600 .943
June 83 14 28 6 0 4 15 8 3 21 0 0 .337 .415 .554 .969
July 90 18 27 4 2 5 20 9 3 14 0 2 .300 .371 .556 .927
August 94 16 33 10 0 6 24 10 3 23 0 0 .351 .430 .649 1.079
September 69 9 19 7 0 5 21 15 1 15 0 1 .275 .398 .594 .992

The only mark against Youkilis in August and September, as compared to Pedroia, is that he missed about a half-dozen games. And he played an easier position.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Maybe I'm as stupid as a rock, but I still cannot understand at all how the player that performs the best in a given season is not the player that provided his team with the most value.

---

It is simple. Lots of people don't agree with your definition of value. And some don't even agree with your definition of best (but that is generally less common).

For example, clutch hitting has been shown to have little to no consistency from year to year. So it wouldn't make sense to compare clutch hitting to determine who was the best player. But hitting in the clutch easily fits into many people's definition of valuable. Here is one reason why some people will vote for Morneau ahead of Mauer.
Joe Mauer
Runners On 252 91 89 16 2 2 78 48 0 22 1 1 .353 .441 .456 .897
Justin Morneau
Runners On 333 90 110 27 3 16 122 54 3 47 0 1 .330 .418 .574 .992

This doesn't make Morneau a better player - but he did hit better when runners were on base.

I'm not saying that I completely agree with the argument, primarily because of positional adjustments, but it is defendable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

When discussing which players provided more value to their teams than other players, I do not understand why the performance of those players' teammates should affect the discussion.

---

That is because baseball stats have no fixed "value", different stats are considered differently important thats what VORP, WARP and Win shares all use differenct metrics.

You are talking relative value (which you advocate by adjusting for position). That is why MVP is always such a muddled debate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dickay

I don't agree with houston regarding the different position as to why Pedey was taken over Yuke.

---

That's not why I think he won over Youkilis. That's why I have him over Youkilis. He won because not only is he good, but he's "gritty", and "hardnosed", and "scrappy", and yeah, there's also the timing of his hot streaks coinciding with Manny/Ortiz ineffectiveness/departure.

Quote:

---

Pedroia was as 'clutch' as they came down the 'stretch' when needed most. I haven't been able to find his September statistics but I have heard them on the radio and they are sick. At a time when they were fighting for a playoff birth, Pedroia stepped up at a much larger clip than Youk. I'd love to see the second half stats side by side...but I couldn't find them.

---

Pedroia, Sept.: .326/.393/.522
Pedroia, 2nd Half: .345/.402/.547

Youkilis, Sept.: .275/.398/.594
Youkilis, 2nd Half: .310/.403/.595

In other words, they hit about exactly the same. Youkilis just didn't have two poor months to start the year, which is why his final numbers are higher than Pedroia.

Also, I understand that people place great emphasis on second half and more specifically September stats when it comes to the MVP award, but that's another thing I just flat-out do not get. Performance in September is not more valuable than performance at any other time of the year, and shouldn't be given more weight.

Quote:

---

This is the real reason why Pedroia edged Youk. It doesn't have to do with positions.

---

You're probably right that those are the reasons the writers use. But position is absolutely the reason why Pedroia comes out as more valuable in nearly every advanced metric.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kenny1234

This doesn't make Morneau a better player - but he did hit better when runners were on base.

---

What about the fact that Mauer is the one GETTING ON BASE ahead of Morneau, GIVING him those opportunities? Why is so little credit given to the enablers? At any rate, using statistics that give credit for things like that, such as Batting Runs Above Average and Win Probability Added, Mauer still comes out ahead of Morneau.

Quote:

---

Also, I understand that people place great emphasis on second half and more specifically September stats when it comes to the MVP award, but that's another thing I just flat-out do not get. Performance in September is not more valuable than performance at any other time of the year, and shouldn't be given more weight.

---

I don't necessarily agree with this. Yes the entire year has to be weighed in but I do think a players 'value' to a team during the peak of the pennant race is more important than his 'value' in April / May. Sure, one could say if he had done well in Apr/May maybe they would be in a better position in Aug/Sept. but the fact is thats really an unknown. When they needed a boost, Pedroia was there in crunch time to step up.

Now to be honest......as a Sawx fan who watches nearly all of the games (albeit not in their entirety often) I can easily make an arguement that Yuke was more deserving. I believe Pedey was the rightful winner, but Yukes defensive contributions far outweighted those of Pedroia. His ability to play 3rd, a position the team had little depth at, was with the Lowell injury.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dickay

I don't necessarily agree with this. Yes the entire year has to be weighed in but I do think a players 'value' to a team during the peak of the pennant race is more important than his 'value' in April / May.

---

Why? If you admit the fact that a win in September is equal to a win in April, what makes performance contributing to a win in September more valuable than performance contributing to a win in April?

Look, I'd use "pennant race performance" as a tie-breaker. Take two players that have identical overall stats. If one had significantly better September stats in a pennant race than the other (who had significantly better stats in say, April), I'd vote for the first guy.

However, it seems that far too many people use it as a huge, primary consideration, and THAT is what makes no sense to me. People that argue for Ryan Howard to be the MVP cite his September stats, say "He carried the Phillies into the playoffs!" but they COMPLETELY ignore that he was terrible for most of the year (and they also completely ignore that Albert Pujols also had fantastic September stats, and was also in a playoff race).

I'd give it consideration in a close vote (which, I admit, the AL was), but it shouldn't be the primary, deciding factor, as so many people use it as (not saying anybody here, but just from the ballot explanations from many voters I've read in the past couple days).