This year's Hall of Fame ballot

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

12-01-2008, 06:55 PM
OldFatGuy

Re: This year's Hall of Fame ballot

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

They found androstenedione in his locker, which was a perfectly legal supplement at the time.

Beat me to it. :p
12-01-2008, 06:56 PM
metsguy234

Re: This year's Hall of Fame ballot

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Stop using wins and losses.

Blyleven finished in the top 10 in his league in ERA+ 12 times, with 1 time leading the league and 7 times in the top 5. He finished in the top 5 in strikeouts 12 times.

Blyleven is a victim of playing on relatively poor teams.

http://www.baseballanalysts.com/ - Check out the "Bert Blyleven series" on the side.

Who are you to tell him what stats he can or can't use?

Wins matter. Wins affect every sport and every game that has ever existed.

ERA+ , ERA-, ERA whatever doesn't affect a game directly
12-01-2008, 06:57 PM
RickD

Re: This year's Hall of Fame ballot

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

They found androstenedione in his locker, which was a perfectly legal supplement at the time.

Just getting ready to say that!
12-01-2008, 06:57 PM
flapper

Re: This year's Hall of Fame ballot

I knew about Clemente. Wasn't there a good/great Yankees player in the 70s die of a plane crash while still a player?
12-01-2008, 06:57 PM
metsguy234

Re: This year's Hall of Fame ballot

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

They found androstenedione in his locker, which was a perfectly legal supplement at the time.

But that's now illegal, as it is well known that it ENHANCES YOUR PERFORMANCE.

Illegal, not illegal, whatever. Mark McGwire didn't actually hit those 588 HRs all by himself.
12-01-2008, 06:58 PM
EVEN11323

Re: This year's Hall of Fame ballot

Quote:

Originally Posted by flapper

I knew about Clemente. Wasn't there a good/great Yankees player in the 70s die of a plane crash while still a player?

Thurman Munson
12-01-2008, 06:58 PM
HoustonGM

Re: This year's Hall of Fame ballot

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsguy234

Wins matter. Wins affect every sport and every game that has ever existed.

Except that's not what the pitching stat "Wins" measures.

Quote:

ERA+ , ERA-, ERA whatever doesn't affect a game directly

Really? You're wrong. How many runs a pitcher allows has a very direct affect on game play. In fact, it's the pitcher's goal to prevent runs..
12-01-2008, 06:59 PM
HoustonGM

Re: This year's Hall of Fame ballot

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsguy234

But that's now illegal, as it is well known that it ENHANCES YOUR PERFORMANCE.

What the law is now is irrelevant. Players should not be penalized for using things that were legally available for them to use.

Quote:

Illegal, not illegal, whatever. Mark McGwire didn't actually hit those 588 HRs all by himself.

No baseball player has racked up his stats solely on his own. Every baseball player weight trains, uses nutriotional and health supplements, etc.
12-01-2008, 07:00 PM
RickD

Re: This year's Hall of Fame ballot

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsguy234

But that's now illegal, as it is well known that it ENHANCES YOUR PERFORMANCE.

Illegal, not illegal, whatever. Mark McGwire didn't actually hit those 588 HRs all by himself.

Hindsight is 20/20...if he used it after the ban then you would have something here. However he used it before the ban! BEFORE!
12-01-2008, 07:01 PM
metsguy234

Re: This year's Hall of Fame ballot

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Mussina had the misfortune of pitching during a time in which we saw a near-unprecedented run of pitching talent with the likes of Maddux, Glavine, Johnson, Pedro, etc. I don't think that necessarily should keep him out of the Hall.

Okay, Mike Mussina is awesome. This statement (I'm not even quite sure if it's relevant, but it sounds good) isn't meant to discredit Mussina (who should definitely make the HOF) in any way, but:

Mussina also pitched during an time when there was the best hitting ever.
12-01-2008, 07:03 PM
metsguy234

Re: This year's Hall of Fame ballot

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickD

Hindsight is 20/20...if he used it after the ban then you would have something here. However he used it before the ban! BEFORE!

It wasn't illegal back then. That's a fact, I am not denying that.

But- It was still a performance enhancing drug- therefore he didn't do nearly as well as his stats show.
12-01-2008, 07:04 PM
metsguy234

Re: This year's Hall of Fame ballot

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Except that's not what the pitching stat "Wins" measures.

Really? You're wrong. How many runs a pitcher allows has a very direct affect on game play. In fact, it's the pitcher's goal to prevent runs..

ERA matters directly.

ERA+ doesn't.
12-01-2008, 07:05 PM
HoustonGM

Re: This year's Hall of Fame ballot

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsguy234

It wasn't illegal back then. That's a fact, I am not denying that.

But- It was still a performance enhancing drug- therefore he didn't do nearly as well as his stats show.

Yes. He did. What his stats show is exactly how well he did.

Cortisone is a "performance-enhancing drug". It is also a steroid. Nearly every baseball player today has gotten a cortisone shot which allowed him to play through pain, therefore enhancing his performance.
12-01-2008, 07:06 PM
flapper

Re: This year's Hall of Fame ballot

Quote:

Originally Posted by EVEN11323

Thurman Munson

That's who I was thinking of.
12-01-2008, 07:07 PM
HoustonGM

Re: This year's Hall of Fame ballot

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsguy234

ERA matters directly.

ERA+ doesn't.

ERA+ adjusts for context. It does matter directly. A 3.00 ERA in 1968 is very different from a 3.00 ERA in 1998.

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page