Re: Buster says watch out for Giants
Ok point there
But If CC WANTS to come here, Why not just go ahead and get him . Its not like they couldn't use him . They are trading Matt Cain hopefully for a nice power bat . They have money freeing up like crazy, its just Zito and Rowand that have big contracts . I think this move will show that they are serious about contending in the future . A step in the right direction . Now if they could get Mark Tex then Id say go there, but they cant . So I dunno what other moves they should make . I like it, so does everyone else I talk to out here.
Re: Buster says watch out for Giants
However, with the Giants being as awful as they are right now, isn't this a team that should really just rebuild the roster? Last I checked, their batting order consisted of a bunch of overachieving hustle guys and players on their last legs...how is spending a ton of money on CC going to fix that?
Re: Buster says watch out for Giants
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr. Perfect
They are trading Matt Cain hopefully for a nice power bat
They are? All I've heard is a bunch of unsubstantiated rumors. And there's very few power bats that I'd trade Cain for...none of which are available.
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Now if they could get Mark Tex then Id say go there, but they cant .
How come they can't get him but can get Sabathia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arctic Blast
However, with the Giants being as awful as they are right now, isn't this a team that should really just rebuild the roster? Last I checked, their batting order consisted of a bunch of overachieving hustle guys and players on their last legs...how is spending a ton of money on CC going to fix that?
Exactly. Their pitching is not the area that needs attention.
Re: Buster says watch out for Giants
I'd rather have Matt Cain for the next 5-7 years than C.C. Sabathia if I had to choose one of them, especially since Cain is still improving (and he's younger than Lincecum AND has been in the Major Leagues longer) and would come much, much cheaper. Then they can spend that C.C. money on hitting. I doubt they'd have a chance on Mark Teixeira, but they could get a couple of cheaper, second-tier players instead. That's much more realistic than them getting Teixeira.
Re: Buster says watch out for Giants
So would spending money on Adam Dunn, Pat Burrell, Rafael Furcal or Edgar Renteria make a whole lot of difference?
Why not at least pay money for somebody who wants to be there, hometown guy and a somebody the fans want to watch pitch?
If they sign a free agent slugger they wont be trading Matt Cain for another slugger so they will be in the same situation as last year just with a guy who hits a few more homers, but doesnt draw any crowd.
Re: Buster says watch out for Giants
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr. Perfect
So would spending money on Adam Dunn, Pat Burrell, Rafael Furcal or Edgar Renteria make a whole lot of difference?
Why not at least pay money for somebody who wants to be there, hometown guy and a somebody the fans want to watch pitch?
If they sign a free agent slugger they wont be trading Matt Cain for another slugger so they will be in the same situation as last year just with a guy who hits a few more homers, but doesnt draw any crowd.
My basic point is...they're a REBUILDING TEAM. Spending a ton of money on ANY high priced veteran makes ZERO SENSE. Signing one or two players, regardless of who they are, isn't going to make this club a powerhouse. And if you're more than a few players away, signing a few for massive bucks on the free agent market makes no sense at all. Picking up solid guys who won't get massive dollars, and growing young players, is what this organization needs to be doing right now, not signing one or two bigger names in some pointless quest for .500.
Re: Buster says watch out for Giants
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BINGLEBOP
I'd rather have Matt Cain for the next 5-7 years than C.C. Sabathia if I had to choose one of them, especially since Cain is still improving (and he's younger than Lincecum AND has been in the Major Leagues longer) and would come much, much cheaper. Then they can spend that C.C. money on hitting.
2008
CC - 253 IP, 17-10, 10 CG, 5 SHO, 251 K
Cain - 217 IP, 8-14, 1 CG, 1 SHO, 186 K
I have been watching Cain pitch since his 1st ML start and I dont think he really has gotten better, he may get better eventually, but he is the trade bait if they want to get a slugger. Not saying its what I would do, but its just the truth. He is on the block, period.
Re: Buster says watch out for Giants
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr. Perfect
So would spending money on Adam Dunn, Pat Burrell, Rafael Furcal or Edgar Renteria make a whole lot of difference?
No. They shouldn't be trying to contend next year. The only free agent that I'd sign if I was them would be Mark Teixeira because he's young and has the right skills and profile to age well and thus can be an asset when the Giants are contenders (which is sooner than most think, but not next year, and will be further away if they don't focus on improving their offense).
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If they sign a free agent slugger they wont be trading Matt Cain for another slugger so they will be in the same situation as last year just with a guy who hits a few more homers, but doesnt draw any crowd.
The Giants were 11th in attendance in 2008, and that's without the Barry Bonds attraction. I'm not sure why you think they should focus on "drawing a crowd." They should focus on building a winning team, because winning is the best way to draw a crowd.
What available slugger do you think trading Matt Cain, a 24 year old pitcher that has thrown 650+ innings with a 118 ERA+ and still has a ton of potential and room for improvement, for would result in a net benefit for the future?
Re: Buster says watch out for Giants
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arctic Blast
My basic point is...they're a REBUILDING TEAM. Spending a ton of money on ANY high priced veteran makes ZERO SENSE. Signing one or two players, regardless of who they are, isn't going to make this club a powerhouse. And if you're more than a few players away, signing a few for massive bucks on the free agent market makes no sense at all. Picking up solid guys who won't get massive dollars, and growing young players, is what this organization needs to be doing right now, not signing one or two bigger names in some pointless quest for .500.
I agree with alot of what you are saying, but MY point is that I am coming at this discussion as a fan. Im not dreaming of wild scenarios. This is what is going on and Im just giving my 2 cents from a Giant's fan POV. Signing CC Sabathia will bring the fans out, make a whole lot more money for the team period. Thats why they are trying to do it, make money so hopefully they can continue to REBUILD as they keep butts in the seats. They need some buzz, the kind of buzz the team had when they signed Barry Bonds, they werent instantly good when they did that, but they made enough money off the signing that they built a whole new stadium with private money.
Re: Buster says watch out for Giants
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr. Perfect
2008
CC - 253 IP, 17-10, 10 CG, 5 SHO, 251 K
Cain - 217 IP, 8-14, 1 CG, 1 SHO, 186 K
I have been watching Cain pitch since his 1st ML start and I dont think he really has gotten better, he may get better eventually, but he is the trade bait if they want to get a slugger. Not saying its what I would do, but its just the truth. He is on the block, period.
That's fine, but for what C.C. Sabathia is going to get in the free agent market, and like others said, the Giants are REBUILDING ("not contending"), that's money that I wouldn't bother spending. They could just NOT spend that money and try to sign their young core to long-term deals when their time comes. No matter what, they're rebuilding and are going to go through some rough years, on the field, and in the stands. C.C. will end up with the Dodgers (contending) before the Giants (not contending).
You have a good point of view as what a fan wants, but fans don't usually get what they want during rebuilding periods. I was a Twins fan in the 1990's when they were atrocious... no amount of fan support will make a team start spending money.
Re: Buster says watch out for Giants
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr. Perfect
2008
CC - 253 IP, 17-10, 10 CG, 5 SHO, 251 K
Cain - 217 IP, 8-14, 1 CG, 1 SHO, 186 K
Uh, yeah. C.C.'s better right now and had a better year.
How about this though:
C.C - 28, fat, $20+ million per year, 6+ year commitment
Cain - 24, good pitcher's build, untapped potential, signed through 2011 at ridiculously cheap prices
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I have been watching Cain pitch since his 1st ML start and I dont think he really has gotten better, he may get better eventually, but he is the trade bait if they want to get a slugger. Not saying its what I would do, but its just the truth. He is on the block, period.
Because, as I said, Sabean isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.
There are no available sluggers for which trading Matt Cain for would be a good deal.
Re: Buster says watch out for Giants
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BINGLEBOP
That's fine, but for what C.C. Sabathia is going to get in the free agent market, and like others said, the Giants are REBUILDING ("not contending"), that's money that I wouldn't bother spending. They could just NOT spend that money and try to sign their young core to long-term deals. No matter what, they're rebuilding and are going to go through some rough years, on the field, and in the stands.
Instead of sinking another crapload of money into a free agent pitcher, they really should use a portion of what they'd give to Sabathia and sign Lincecum to a long-term deal. My money is on Lincecum outperforming Sabathia over the total of the next 6 years.
Re: Buster says watch out for Giants
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr. Perfect
2008
CC - 253 IP, 17-10, 10 CG, 5 SHO, 251 K
Cain - 217 IP, 8-14, 1 CG, 1 SHO, 186 K
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
Uh, yeah. C.C.'s better right now and had a better year.
How about this though:
C.C - 28, fat, $20+ million per year, 6+ year commitment
Cain - 24, good pitcher's build, untapped potential, signed through 2011 at ridiculously cheap prices
Exactly... in no alternate universe is C.C. Sabathia worth over $20,000,000 more than Matt Cain (likely how much more he'll be making than Cain, at the very least).
Re: Buster says watch out for Giants
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
Instead of sinking another crapload of money into a free agent pitcher, they really should use a portion of what they'd give to Sabathia and sign Lincecum to a long-term deal. My money is on Lincecum outperforming Sabathia over the total of the next 6 years.
Exactly who I was thinking about (signing Lincecum long-term).
Re: Buster says watch out for Giants
Remember that rumor last offseason that a trade was being seriously considered to send Lincecum to Toronto for Alex Rios?
The fact that Sabean even paid more than a split-second of attention to that offer is evidence that he doesn't exactly have his head on straight.
