Yep. Gonzalez and Smith are confirmed, but no word yet on Street.
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Yep. Gonzalez and Smith are confirmed, but no word yet on Street.
Poor RSR and yamiviet. I hope they don't commit suicide over this.
I'm anxiously awaiting yamiviet's reaction.
This just cements the Mariners last place finish for the next few years. :(
Rockiesfan took it badly too.... And, Metsguy, I can jinx this if I want tooQuote:
Originally Posted by BINGLEBOP
This might not even happen. Actually, I'm going to make a prediction- this deal DOES NOT HAPPEN in the end.
It is finalized...... The only good to come of this will be Yamiviets reaction....Quote:
The Rockies will receive outfielder Carlos Gonzalez, left-handed pitcher Greg Smith and closer Huston Street in return, though they may not keep Street. One source said Monday that the Rockies are prepared to turn around and trade him -- though to which team he wasn't sure.
Yeah very interesting deal here.
It's not yet finalized. Terms have been agreed to.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
Don't understand what the A's are doing. We'll see what they can get for Holliday at the deadline I guess...b/c they aren't signing him long-term and this move isn't NEARLY enough to make them a contender in the West. Their offense was awfully bad last year when they "threw in the towel" or whatever. We'll see what they can get for Holliday at the deadline I suppose.
Looks like Street will be moved by the Rockies
Possible package with Garrett Atkins to Cleveland perhaps?
I don't know the article named multiple teams
Not G-At too... :(... He is one of my favorites....Quote:
Originally Posted by EVEN11323
With a league worst .242 average, they are looking to add some pop to it, so it isn't a crazy deal to consider from the A's prospective.Quote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
Street lost his closer role and Gonzalez is okay but one of many outfielders in the organization who does the same thing. Smith had a so-so season and even though he is young, apparently didn't impress anyone enough to want to keep him.
The A's obviously feel the pitchers they still have will be able to get the job done and the addition of Holliday and rumors of Giambi coming back makes the offense a little more potent.
This deal should work out great for the Rockies if we get Huston STreet AND Carlos Gonzalez. Carlos is an outfielder who can almost replace matt in a couple years, while Street is an upgrade I'd say from Fuentes.
I'm not sure I understand either...Quote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
I agree 100% with everything you said. Although, I wouldn't put it past Beane and the A's to be making a serious effort to contend.
That's the thing... could this be the precursor to some other surprise deals or signings? After all, the A's are used to playing in a division that is relatively easy to win by putting together a team based on Moneyball principles. Now that's changed, as the Angels are getting better and better each season, and as Texas looks to be a possibly legit contender as soon as next season.Quote:
this move isn't NEARLY enough to make them a contender in the West.
I think it could be that they're seeing if they can put together a contender with low risk and high reward, and the team will be scrapped, as usual, as July 31 approaches, in the event that they can't contend.
Beane will lose his job if he can't start making a push for the division pennant (or wild card) every year, like he used to.
RSR: G-At will probably be moved
Street could be dealt
Holliday could go to the DODGERS?! from what I have heard it's possible.
I've heard that too. It's been floating around since June, actually. I really hope it doesn't happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockiesfan4ever
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that Holliday's career home/away splits are as follows:
Home: .357/.423/.645
Away: .280/.348/.455
Hard to tell how much of this is based on playing at his home stadium and how much is based on Coors itself, but it has to be a little scary for any teams considering this guy for the long term. Not that those away numbers are anything to sneeze at, but an .803 OPS away from Coors should be something of a huge red flag for any team thinking they might want to toss some BIG money his way.
Also, I looked it up earlier and don't remember quite exactly, but I think McAfee ranked #14 this season and #29 last season in terms of HR-friendliness.
I don't know about that. I'd put him in the small category of GMs with near 100% job security barring catastrophe.Quote:
Originally Posted by justanewguy
It's also important to remember that Holliday plays a large portion of his road games in two of the pitcher-friendliest parks in the major leagues in PETCO and AT&T. Dodger Stadium in 2008 was also very pitcher-friendly (though not so in 2007/2006).Quote:
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that Holliday's career home/away splits are as follows:
Home: .357/.423/.645
Away: .280/.348/.455
Hard to tell how much of this is based on playing at his home stadium and how much is based on Coors itself, but it has to be a little scary for any teams considering this guy for the long term. Not that those away numbers are anything to sneeze at, but an .803 OPS away from Coors should be something of a huge red flag for any team thinking they might want to toss some BIG money his way.
He's had 151 PA's in Dodger Stadium and hit .259/.325/.415. 171 PA's in PETCO and hit .205/.265/.365. 185 PA's in AT&T and hit .272/.335/.414. You take out those, and his road numbers look much nicer. Of course, it is offset some as he'd be moving to the tougher league and as you noted, McAfee isn't hitter friendly by any means and favors pitchers by a sizable margin.
It's also worth noting that Holliday's road OPS has steadily been increasing each year of his career:
2004: .654
2005: .729
2006: .819
2007: .860
2008: .892
Holliday would likely continue putting up 130-140 OPS+'s wherever he is. It's not conclusive by any means, but take a look at other Colorado players that left Colorado...most of them continued putting up similar OPS+'s elsewhere. Their raw stats may look worse, but adjusted for ballpark, they're not. I'd expect at least .300/.370/.500 from Holliday playing his home games elsewhere (except PETCO).
Doesn't he have an ownership stake now in the team too?Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Yep, you're right. He's got the job for as long as we can see into the future and longer.
I'd think, being outgunned by a perennial 100W-quality team in your own division, having less young talent than you've ever had in your tenure, and failing to make the playoffs in a couple years... is as close to a "catastrophe" as you can get in this instance. Besides, when has Beane ever... won a championship? These are the things you take into consideration when you own a ballclub.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
True. And I looked into these stats too, and his numbers are actually rather atrocious at those parks. Which makes me fear for how he'd perform at a recently pitcher-friendly park like McAfee.Quote:
It's also important to remember that Holliday plays a large portion of his road games in two of the pitcher-friendliest parks in the major leagues in PETCO and AT&T. Dodger Stadium in 2008 was also very pitcher-friendly (though not so in 2007/2006).
Good call. This, again, makes me wonder how much of this has to do with home/away and how much has to do with Coors.Quote:
It's also worth noting that Holliday's road OPS has steadily been increasing each year of his career:
2004: .654
2005: .729
2006: .819
2007: .860
2008: .892
Earlier today I was talking with a friend about this exact thing, and I suggested I'd expect .310/.380/.490 out of Holliday. I think he turns into more of a doubles hitter and less a power hitter in the AL. Maybe a 20/50 type. There's no doubt he'll be good, I just wonder exactly how much GMs take into account things like splits and adjusted numbers when they're putting money on the table.Quote:
Holliday would likely continue putting up 130-140 OPS+'s wherever he is. It's not conclusive by any means, but take a look at other Colorado players that left Colorado...most of them continued putting up similar OPS+'s elsewhere. Their raw stats may look worse, but adjusted for ballpark, they're not. I'd expect at least .300/.370/.500 from Holliday playing his home games elsewhere (except PETCO).
I'm not saying he's going to suck, but there's a large disparity in the numbers, and it's possible a team will give him a ridiculous deal based on RAW numbers, and end up overpaying him in the process. As in, giving him HOFer type money instead of All Star type money.
I wouldn't mind seeing Matt Holliday in Dodger Blue, if for no other reason that his dad is the pitching coach at my alma mater, NC State. Coach Holliday did an outstanding job with the Wolfpack pitching staff last season, BTW.
And, as I forgot and Binglebop pointed out, Beane does partially own the club. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by justanewguy
Yes, it's a fair worry.Quote:
True. And I looked into these stats too, and his numbers are actually rather atrocious at those parks. Which makes me fear for how he'd perform at a recently pitcher-friendly park like McAfee.
Yep, you're right. There will be a team suckered into it. The A's won't be that team though. But, given a season in Oakland, his raw numbers will look more ordinary, and it might result in him earning less money than had he entered the market straight out of Colorado.Quote:
I'm not saying he's going to suck, but there's a large disparity in the numbers, and it's possible a team will give him a ridiculous deal based on RAW numbers, and end up overpaying him in the process. As in, giving him HOFer type money instead of All Star type money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BINGLEBOP
It will probably be... "dan dowd stupid gm dumber than kid!!! holliday runner up mvp trade for garbage from oakland! not trade atkins too if so stupid gm!!!! dan dwod should fired now! probaly trade tulo and helton next for garbage player"Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Lol! :D I don't know that we even need an 'official' Yamiviet reaction anymore...this basically qualifies.Quote:
Originally Posted by BINGLEBOP
LOL. Holliday is more of a doubles hitter than he is a HR hitter, so I think 25-40 is definately possible saying he's basically done it the last 3 years (Averages 30 HR 44 2B.)
Espn is reporting that Huston Street is involved in this trade
I forgot about this. You're right, it probably would take a "catastrophe," but a third straight season with poor results couldn't possibly look good for this team. I could see the revenue drop significantly if they fail to reach the playoffs again. That's why I'm curious to see exactly where this move is headed. Do they bring in a couple of impact free agents to round the team out? I guess they could be a serious wild card contender with only a couple more pieces, but I don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
And you know they're going to get twice as much in return as they gave up for him, especially if they trade him in June or July. So they'll either be in contention with Holliday and trade him after the 2009 season, essentially renting him for free for one year, or they'll double their investment by getting rid of him midseason. All in all, I'm starting to think this is a brilliant move...Quote:
Yes, it's a fair worry.
Yep, you're right. There will be a team suckered into it. The A's won't be that team though. But, given a season in Oakland, his raw numbers will look more ordinary, and it might result in him earning less money than had he entered the market straight out of Colorado.
But I still think Beane will have to "step it up" a little if he wants to compete with the 100-win Angels, let alone the slew of stacked teams in the AL Central and AL East that fight for the wild card each season.
I mean, slightly more of a doubles hitter than before, less of a home run hitter. I foresee 5 to 10 of his HR turning into 2B.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockiesfan4ever
He has 84 career HR at home and 44 away... with roughly the same amount of AB.
There's been rumors that they're targeting Rafael Furcal in free agency.Quote:
Originally Posted by justanewguy
I have a feeling that Beane doesn't view the Angels as a legitimate 100-win team. Beane sees that the Angels outscored their opponents by 68 runs, more characteristic of a 88 win team than a 100 win team. He also probably sees that the Angels aren't likely to get a repeat season of the same caliber out of Joe Saunders, nor are they likely to duplicate the success of their bullpen at quite the same level, and there's also a good chance that they lose two key players in K-Rod and Tex. Barring big moves on the Angels part, they're much more likely to win 85 games next year than they are to come close to the 100 wins they had this season. Beane recognizes that, and if he is indeed planning on contending (there's also word that the trade order may have come from "above", and Beane's doing it out of necessity and not his own vision), he's going to try and make his team into an 88-game winner and bank on the Angels coming down to Earth (which isn't unlikely).Quote:
But I still think Beane will have to "step it up" a little if he wants to compete with the 100-win Angels, let alone the slew of stacked teams in the AL Central and AL East that fight for the wild card each season.
More than that, if the As don't compete next year they will hold Holiday at the trade deadline (how big was right handed power at the deadline this year) -- Beane is notoriously good as evaulting talent and getting the best deal possible, and holding a player like Street ( the biggest trading chip in there) is highly risky given his lost closer role, injuries and inconsistencies.
Worst of Worst Beane will wind up with two draft picks when Holliday leaves via FA'cy at the end of the year.
This deal is shrewd on many levels for Beane ...
mat halliday to the braves for peavy :p
Holliday, Furcal, (Giambi?), and a couple of role players could be enough to boost them to 90ish wins...Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Good point... but I can't imagine the Angels don't replace Teixeira or somehow upgrade the team overall. Since they picked Tex up when they already had the division wrapped up, I think they've changed their philosophy to that of trying to stack the team wherever they can at any cost, even the future (just like how they gave up Kotchman for a possible one year rental player), so they can hold their own in playoff slugfests against teams like Boston.Quote:
I have a feeling that Beane doesn't view the Angels as a legitimate 100-win team. Beane sees that the Angels outscored their opponents by 68 runs, more characteristic of a 88 win team than a 100 win team. He also probably sees that the Angels aren't likely to get a repeat season of the same caliber out of Joe Saunders, nor are they likely to duplicate the success of their bullpen at quite the same level, and there's also a good chance that they lose two key players in K-Rod and Tex. Barring big moves on the Angels part, they're much more likely to win 85 games next year than they are to come close to the 100 wins they had this season. Beane recognizes that, and if he is indeed planning on contending (there's also word that the trade order may have come from "above", and Beane's doing it out of necessity and not his own vision), he's going to try and make his team into an 88-game winner and bank on the Angels coming down to Earth (which isn't unlikely).
Given that they'll try to resign Teixeira or make a big splash in the market, I see the Angels as a 90+ win team next season, since they won 100 games with only half a season of Teixeira. I expect the Angels to be the 4th biggest player in the offseason market, right after the Dodgers, Yankees and Mets. I'd be shocked if they sat idly.
Basically, I still think the As have a very steep hill to climb, and if the As become a buyer this offseason, it'll make for some interesting baseball in the AL. Especially considering that Baltimore looks like they might be a big buyer as well.
All I know is that I'm thoroughly looking forward to this offseason. Three trades already and the awards haven't even been fully announced. Tons of juicy rumors floating around. Big names on the market. I've never been this excited for an offseason.
Agreed. I'm excited too. It looks like there's going to be some cutthroat battles over certain players and a very active trade market.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
I'm thinking the AL (LA, NY, Baltimore, and apparently Oakland) is going to suck up more of the available talent than the NL (LA, NY), and become an even better league overall.
i am excited to bet a premier pitcher *fingers crossed* I think we have the parts better than the cubs can do in a 3way deal
Whoa, I just reliazed Houston Got an avatar. What is it of? And yea, this will be a fun off season, seeing as it JUST started, and is already seeing deals everywhere. One deal i would make would be trade Vlad if I was the Angels. He is too expensive and aging, and they have a full outfield. For Vlad they could get a some great specs
Maybe they could trade him for Robinson Cano.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
I'd trade Vlad too, and pick up a Bobby Abreu or maybe even a Manny to replace him. Vlad's great, but he's declining.