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If they had a need (who doesn't?), what would you rather have your favorite team do this offseason? Sign C.C. Sabathia? Or put together a package of prospects and trade for Jake Peavy?
I would rather sign C.C. Sabathia. While the contract he's going to get will likely have him making more money than Peavy per season, the prospects that you would have to give up to land Peavy make me shy away from making that move.
Your thoughts?
Well there's alot of variables here, but it seems that signing CC would be a better bet, but assuming you have the players to trade in an overloaded postiton Peavy would be a nice add.
I was going to preface it with "if everything else was even", but usually it's not, and every team will be in a different situation this offseason, so from where your favorite team is standing, which would you rather have them do?
CC Sabathia
I'd go Peavy.
Even if you sign Sabathia you're giving up draft picks (future prospects). At least when you trade for Peavy you know what you have a good, general idea of what you're giving up in terms of that, whereas with Sabathia you have very little of an idea of what you're giving up.
Plus Peavy is signed long-term already, and cheaper than what you'll get Sabathia for.
EDIT: And Peavy is the better of the two, in my opinion.
Sabathia. Unless you're at the point where you're one pitcher away from contending, giving up half your farm system for Peavy makes no sense at all.
Sabathia. I think he's a better bet to hold up, plus all you're giving up is money (and compensation draft picks).
As far as being better, its Sabathia without a doubt. Peavy looks to be nearly as good, but thats because he pitches in the national league. the plus for Peavy is that he is a year younger. Sabathia is the better pitcher right now.
I'd also go with C.C. because he goes deeper into a ballgame, not just in 2008 but the last few seasons and overall in his career more than Peavy does.
I'd go Peavy....because with C.C. I'm assuming its a 6+ year deal at 20 mil per or more!! Sure, its easy to say sign CC rather than trade talent for Peavy, but its all relative to what he's being signed for.
Based upon what I believe his price is (listed above) I think Peavy is the better option. I don't trust CC's weight/health into the second half of that contract.
no disrespect here Dickay but are Peavy's numbers truly LEGIT ? I mean he pitches in the "weaker" league,in a great "Pitchers" park & scouts have said his "body type" is not suited for a continual heavy work load.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
All these things are negatives for one & bonuses for the other (although I must admit CC's weight is a problem in my eyes).
It really boils down to IMO which team in which league...............if I was a GM in the NL I would go for Peavy & vice versa for an AL GM (also depends on your prospects eg Mets have ZERO prospects that the Friars are interested in & thus they will be in CC Sweep)
Everybody treats these questions like they exist in a vacuum. They don't.
It depends on your team and your situation.
CC makes more sense for a team like the Yankees. Whereas a team like Atlanta would find it easier to trade for Peavy. Then there are most of the teams out there that aren't in the equation at all because they don't have the income or the talent.
Agree 100% but the bigger vacuum issue I see is the length of contract and dollar terms that come with CC. I think many are claiming CC without giving enough thought to a 6 or 7 year deal at over 20 mil per for a guy who has had weight problems and is entering the age where keeping that weight in check gets even more difficult. I could be wrong in that statement...but CC's an easy choice if you weren't considering those things....but in the grand scheme of things they have to be considered.Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
And French.........my answer to the initial question would be neither. I agree with you on the Peavy concerns...but IMO he's the lesser of two evils.
I voted Peavy. The lower cost, a year younger, no weight issues. I am thinking from the Red Sox perspective - I'd rather give up 2 of Buchholz/Bowden/Pauley for Peavy for a few years, than $20+mil and two top draft picks for CC. CC is a great pitcher, and has proven to be a durable workhorse...just personal preference I guess.
Peavy has a backloaded contract that goes up past $10M in like 2010 (I will look for the link I saw it on)
his total contract is 60 million for the next 4 years with a 22 million option for a 5th. that an average of 15 million per year. sabathia will blow that out of the waterQuote:
Originally Posted by rockiesfan4ever
Quote:
4 years/$14.5M (2005-08), plus 2009 club option
3 years/$52M (2010-2012), plus 2013 club option
signed extension 12/12/07
10:$15M, 11:$16M, 12:$17M, 13: $22M club option ($4M buyout)
full no-trade clause for 2010, may block trades to 14 clubs in 2011 and 8 clubs in 2012 (also earns 10-and-5 rights in 2012)
award bonuses: $0.1M for WS MVP; $0.1M each for MVP or Cy Young ($50,000 for 2nd, $25,000 for 3rd); $50,000 for All Star starter; $25,000 for All Star selection; $50,000 each for LCS MVP, Gold Glove
4 years/$14.5M (2005-08), plus 2009 club option
05:$0.75M, 06:$2.5M, 07:$4.75M, 08:$6M, 09:$8M club option ($0.5M buyout)
full no-trade clause 2008-09
signed extension 2/05 (avoided arbitration)
2008 salary increases to $6.5M with 600 IP 2005-07
2009 salary increases to $9M with 600 IP in 2006-08, with 200 IP in 2008
2009 salary increases by $0.5M with each top 3 finish in Cy Young vote in 2006-08, with top salary of $11M
2009 salary increases to $11M with Cy Young during 2005-07
$0.5M assignment bonus if traded
award bonuses: $0.1M for WS MVP; $0.1M each for MVP or Cy Young ($50,000 for 2nd, $25,000 for 3rd); $50,000 for All Star starter; $25,000 for All Star selection; $50,000 each for LCS MVP, Gold Glove or Rolaids award ($25,000 for 2nd in Rolaids rankings)
1 year/$0.35M (2004), 3 /04
1 year/$0.305M (2003) 3/03
drafted 1999 (15-472)
agent: Barry Axelrod
ML service: 5.101
not to mention sabathia will want more than 5 years... if peavy falls apart you are stuck with him for 4 years MAX... Sabathia will be like 6-8
ding.ding.ding.ding.ding...we got a winner!!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet
Well said. 4 years max at a much lower cost than 6-8 of Sabathia at a much higher cost. As I said...i'd make a move for neither of the two, but Peavy IMO is the lesser of two evils with the contracts and health concerns taken into perspective.
Yea I was just saying he's not like 5M per year cheap
Try past 20 million.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockiesfan4ever
Actually...
Jake Peavy rhp
4 years/$14.5M (2005-08), plus 2009 club option
3 years/$52M (2010-2012), plus 2013 club option
* signed extension 12/12/07
* 10:$15M, 11:$16M, 12:$17M, 13: $22M club option ($4M buyout)
* full no-trade clause for 2010, may block trades to 14 clubs in 2011 and 8 clubs in 2012 (also earns 10-and-5 rights in 2012)
* award bonuses: $0.1M for WS MVP; $0.1M each for MVP or Cy Young ($50,000 for 2nd, $25,000 for 3rd); $50,000 for All Star starter; $25,000 for All Star selection; $50,000 each for LCS MVP, Gold Glove
* 4 years/$14.5M (2005-08), plus 2009 club option
o 05:$0.75M, 06:$2.5M, 07:$4.75M, 08:$6M, 09:$8M club option ($0.5M buyout)
o full no-trade clause 2008-09
o signed extension 2/05 (avoided arbitration)
o 2008 salary increases to $6.5M with 600 IP 2005-07
o 2009 salary increases to $9M with 600 IP in 2006-08, with 200 IP in 2008
o 2009 salary increases by $0.5M with each top 3 finish in Cy Young vote in 2006-08, with top salary of $11M
o 2009 salary increases to $11M with Cy Young during 2005-07
o $0.5M assignment bonus if traded
o award bonuses: $0.1M for WS MVP; $0.1M each for MVP or Cy Young ($50,000 for 2nd, $25,000 for 3rd); $50,000 for All Star starter; $25,000 for All Star selection; $50,000 each for LCS MVP, Gold Glove or Rolaids award ($25,000 for 2nd in Rolaids rankings)
* 1 year/$0.35M (2004), 3 /04
* 1 year/$0.305M (2003) 3/03
* drafted 1999 (15-472)
* agent: Barry Axelrod
* ML service: 5.101
I didn't know how much it was I didn't wanna get anyone upsate by saying 20M and it be 15M
lol braves coulds always trade for him then trade him next year when there is noone again / or very limited again.
and its only over 20 in the option year
Mike hamptno was 15 million this year, pedro for 12 million, pettite got 16, mussina got 18, Oswalt for 13, hudson for 13.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
you are telling me you would not take a guy who has never had any real problems and has pitched to a sub 3 era for how many seasons??? and has pitched 200+ innings how many times??? for 15 million a year....
id rather 15 per year than 20 and I think sabathia will end somewhere around 22-23
I've said Peavy is the better bet of the two with the contracts in mind by far IMO...but he'll be costly to get prospect wise and I really haven't looked closely at it but I do remember alot of comments about his health. I"d have to look closer at that.....there's a reason why SD is looking to move him and I don't think its his contract which as you state is not all that bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet
I think they are moving him because they want to rebuild... why keep him and then trade him for 1 year or so at the end when he can DEMAND his option possibly be picked up. He can here too but i don think he will REALLY force it.
Id rather sign lowe for a 3 year deal and take a shot with Sheets or if we can get Perez for 10-12 per year for 2-3 years (I think he is going to want 15-16 tho and I dont think he REALLY is worth it) just because I dont want to give up the prospects. BUT I didnt wnat to give up the guys we gave up for hudson and look where they turned out (not even in the minors)
I would trade him tho if its a bunch or R-AA guys tho. look we may give up the next Nolan Ryan or Scott Kazmir but its a chance im willing to take with a nobody.
What I DON'T want to see is EVERYONE gone
The thing is how will Peavy's contract LOOK 2 years down the road ? When Meche was signed a couple back,it was though to be over-valued,now it looks under-valued.
Also CC has proved that he can be effective in BOTH leagues & under duress (ie short rest/pennant race).Peavy has a "club" friendly deal (for at least 2/3 years).Both,incredibly have 121 ERA+ but Peavy's has to be looked at that his is based on 400 less IPs & has significantly improved since Petco opened,whereas CC has been 140+ in the last 3 years.
Problem is CC is available to say 3/4 teams max,whereas Peavy is available to MOST competitive teams ie Atlanta can be in on the "Peavy" sweep BUT not in the "CC sweep".
Horses for courses.....as a Red Sox fan I would go after Lowe rather than either....:)