-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KowboyKoop
I don't care if all-time our record is 3rd worst, I'm only talking about last year. When talking about how good the Rays are, you gonna bring up their record in 2001??
There is no chance in hell we are more likely to win 65 than 85. Our starting pitching and bullpen is way too good for that. Greinke and Meche are a legit top of the rotation, Soria is a dominant closer (along with other very good relievers), Davies looks to have found something last year, Hochevar's ERA should've been way better than it was last year (FIP in the mid 4s I believer). That's potentially four pretty good starting pitchers and a lock-down closer. Combine that with Gordon having a breakout 2nd half last year and a few other nice hitters...we're a legit .500 team next year if we can add a little more offense. We've gone from 56 wins to 62 wins to 69 wins to 75 wins, no reason that steay improvement can't continue..and it's only gonna get better as our lower minors is loaded and those guys will start creeping towards AA this year. The Royals would've been above .500 in the NL last year and might be so in '09 in the AL Central. I know that "we're the Royals, ha ha," but we're not nearly as bad as people think....
As for run differential....being punished because our long relievers suck is ridiculous. Not my fault our manager put Hideo Nomo and Kip Wells and Jeff Fulchino in the game so often when we weren't losing by that much. That was our weakest area last year..long relief...and it skewed our run differential.
Yes the Royals have improved BUT still aren't strong enough to compete in the AL Central - which is,whether you like it or not,were they play.
The Jacobs for Nunez deal "interesting" & "weird",IMO.Firstly,it is not the "weakest" spot in the KC lineup - as they ALREADY had Butler/Shealy/Gload & Kila available for 2 spots.
Secondly,they dealt a arm (which in today's FA market) who could have netted them a more needed filler eg a middle infielder
The positive spin though is Moore is dealing & Hillman is competent as a manager.As you said your SPs have potential but the minors,as Sickels reported :
Quote:
The Royals have made a lot of improvements, but still need more offensive depth beyond the top elite batters. Focus on pitching has yielded dividends at the lower levels, but injury attrition will hit at some point, and they could use more polished guys to mix with the tools players.
& they lack top level guys WHO can play now (a la Bruce/Votto/Cueto for example).Seems to me that the team will be competitive but not before 2010 & EVEN then they will be in a difficult position as their young guys,like Greinke or Gordon,will be arb ready & be "looking" for a bumper L-T deal.Tough position !!
BTW My own personal feeling is that Jacobs WAS NOT the guy they should have traded for but Ugglia even if it would have cost them ADDED prospects. ;)
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
The only reason the NL West didn't have a team that had an amazing record is they all have to play each other! It's hard to win 90 games when you have other teams that you play 18 times who are just as good.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rockiesfan4ever
The only reason the NL West didn't have a team that had an amazing record is they all have to play each other! It's hard to win 90 games when you have other teams that you play 18 times who are just as good.
or just as bad. ur telling me ARI, SDP, LAD, SFG, COL are all equal to TB, NYY, BOS, TOR, BALT...
i sure hope not
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Just as good? Are you serious? The only reason that ANYONE in the NL West had a winning record at all is BECAUSE they played 72 (yes, seventy-two) games against the incredibly bad NL West. Heres a fact for you: No team in the NL West had a winning record against the rest of baseball. Every team in that painfully awful division was a loser outside their division.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KowboyKoop
Jacobs will be here for the next three years, unless traded. I don't see why the Royals can't be a good team in three years. We have decent starting pitching, a great back end of the bullpen, and a few nice young hitters. We aren't as far off as you might think.
Jacobs is not going to be worth the money he'll be getting in three years. Plus, he isn't all that good.
Quote:
I've never seen Jacobs play defense, but I have seen Kila play defense. The ONE game he played in KC defensively, he misplayed three balls in one inning. The few games I saw him in Omaha, he was equally brutal, including dropping routine throws from 1B four times. I highly doubt there is any evidence he is better defensively than Jacobs.
Jacobs' defensive numbers in nearly every advanced defensive metric place him squarely at the bottom of all first basemen. I haven't seen Kila play defense, but I haven't heard anything about it either, except what you just said. I would think Kila would almost have to be better by default, even if he's not good.
Quote:
Also, I'm not sure how you say a 100 OPS+ is par for the course for Jacobs, when his career OPS+ is 110
Last 3 years - 106-100-109. And OPS overvalues slugging while undervaluing on-base percentage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockiesfan4ever
The only reason the NL West didn't have a team that had an amazing record is they all have to play each other! It's hard to win 90 games when you have other teams that you play 18 times who are just as good.
I'd like to introduce you to the AL East, where 4 teams had 86 or more wins.
Like Swampdog said, the only reason any of them had a winning record is because they play nearly half their games against themselves, so almost by default one of them has to have a winning record. It's really hard to win a division with a losing record in the era of the unbalanced schedule.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
where 4 teams had 86 or more wins
And the NL central
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FRENCHREDSOX
Yes the Royals have improved BUT still aren't strong enough to compete in the AL Central - which is,whether you like it or not,were they play.
I don't claim we'll be good enough to contend in the AL Central..at least not next year. I am claiming we can push for .500. I don't think that's a stretch. We've improved by 6+ games every year for the past three years...I see no reason why it can't happen again. I'm not saying we're going to do what the Rays did...but come on, 75 wins is far from being a horrible team...we could push towards .500 if Moore can find a decent corner OF bat especially.
The Jacobs for Nunez deal "interesting" & "weird",IMO.Firstly,it is not the "weakest" spot in the KC lineup - as they ALREADY had Butler/Shealy/Gload & Kila available for 2 spots.
Secondly,they dealt a arm (which in today's FA market) who could have netted them a more needed filler eg a middle infielder
I'd agree with that. I don't claim the trade to be some amazing trade or steal for us..but to say it's a bad one is going too far. We traded our fourth best reliever, one who is extremely injury prone (this is the biggest point I think everyone is missing....he looks malnourished when on the mound and his motion is violent) for potentially a decent power bat. It's not guaranteed to work..but we aren't giving up hardly anything...I don't see what is bad about that.
The positive spin though is Moore is dealing & Hillman is competent as a manager.As you said your SPs have potential but the minors,as
Sickels reported :
Hillman is the furthest thing from a competent manager. He doesn't know the definition of a platoon split. He was AWFUL in his first year, the entire team lost respect for him midway though. He could improve..but he's considered a joke of a manager so far by those who really pay attention. His emphasis on small ball cost us so many runs last year, his bullpen management was the worst I've ever seen.....his dedication to Ross Gload was sickening.
& they lack top level guys WHO can play now (a la Bruce/Votto/Cueto for example).Seems to me that the team will be competitive but not before 2010 & EVEN then they will be in a difficult position as their young guys,like Greinke or Gordon,will be arb ready & be "looking" for a bumper L-T deal.Tough position !!
If by competitive you mean contending for a playoff spot..I agree...it won't happen before 2010. We are not a playoff contender next year unless we catch a ridiculous amount of breaks, but we have a chance at being around .500, which certainly would be improvement and could lead to contending in the near future. Our rotation is looking pretty solid, our bullpen is very good, Gordon had a great 2nd half, DeJesus is a nice hitter, Mike Aviles had a great year (bit fluky), hopefully a couple of the guys from the Jacobs, Shealy, Kila, Butler group will hit well.....our offense should improve a little bit.
As for our minor leagues, it is mostly in the low minors and no, they won't all pan out...but it's a damn good foundation. Two years from now our AA and AAA teams should look pretty good..along with the MLB team being much improved. Not everything Dayton Moore does is right..but he's done a hell of a lot more right than wrong. Also...DM and the owners have already committed to upping payroll significantly once those guys get more expensive...a Greinke contract extension seems likely this offseason..we've already locked up Soria.......we're not exactly the tightwads we used to be. We also outspent everybody in this year's draft..had upped international spending by a large amount..have added an extra minor league team. This isn't the same organization as five years ago. Trust me, I'm not just some homer who is going to say that everything we do is awesome. When we suck or do something stupid (like the Jose Guillen signing), I'll be the first one to say it.
BTW
My own personal feeling is that Jacobs WAS NOT the guy they should have traded for but Ugglia even if it would have cost them ADDED prospects. ;)
Yes, trading for Uggla would've been better. Can't deny that.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
He was comparing the NL West to the AL Central and the NL East
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
The Royals should be building through Pitching, there's no way they should be trading there really only good RP besides Grienke to the Marlins, they had 3 average 1B already why do they need another?
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
Jacobs is not going to be worth the money he'll be getting in three years. Plus, he isn't all that good.
Sure, he might be a little overpaid. You can say that about a ton of players in the league. If he can maintain his high SLG percentage, he'll help our lineup. If he can't, Kila and Butler and others will hopefully be ready to take over. Again, I don't think Jacobs is perfect or is the "solution to the offense" or anything, but even if he is just perfectly average overall....we gave up very little for it...and we could use some average hitters.
Jacobs' defensive numbers in nearly every advanced defensive metric place him squarely at the bottom of all first basemen. I haven't seen Kila play defense, but I haven't heard anything about it either, except what you just said. I would think Kila would almost have to be better by default, even if he's not good.
That's fine, but to assume Kila is better by default would be a stretch from what I've seen. Of course I don't know for sure either way, but Kila was pretty awful. Shealy is our best defensive 1B, if he can stay healthy and can avoid his 2007 numbers..which was the most painful month of hitting I've ever had to watch.
Last 3 years - 106-100-109. And OPS overvalues slugging while undervaluing on-base percentage.
It does. I don't claim Jacobs to be great. I claim him to be decent. Sure, we can't afford to have him put up an OBP under .300, but that's pretty unlikely considering his BABIP was 30-40 points lower than it has ever been in his career. It would be pretty freakish for it to be that low again. I think a .270/.320/.480 line is reasonable to expect. I'll take that for an oft-injured middle reliever who couldn't even strike out many batters last year.
I'd like to introduce you to the AL East, where 4 teams had 86 or more wins.
Like Swampdog said, the only reason any of them had a winning record is because they play nearly half their games against themselves, so almost by default one of them has to have a winning record. It's really hard to win a division with a losing record in the era of the unbalanced schedule.
j
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BrewCrewFan255
The Royals should be building through Pitching, there's no way they should be trading there really only good RP besides Grienke to the Marlins, they had 3 average 1B already why do they need another?
Nunez was our 4th best reliever last year and can hardly stay on the field. We have three, maybe four pretty solid starters going into next year...as well as an All-Star caliber closer. We need offense WAY WAY WAY more than pitching. DM is building through pitching, our lower minors is stocked with pitching as well as a few good prospects in AA-AAA.......and DM has shown the ability to find power relievers from nowhere (Ramon Ramirez, Robinson Tejada, Soria..........
Also..am I reading that right, you think Leo Nunez was our only good reliever, besides Greinke!??!?!?!??!?! That's pretty obviously wrong.
Uhh....Greinke is a starter and had a 3.47 ERA while striking out 183 batters in 202 innings...while not walking very many. He's close to an ace...close. As for our other relievers..well, our closer Joakim Soria was an All-Star with a 1.60 ERA and 42 saves with a K per inning. Ramon Ramirez had a 2.64 ERA also with a strikeout per inning. Ron Mahay was amazing for us most of the year until he got a minor injury and struggled to end the year. His ERA was 1.75 at the end of July..then he got hurt a little later and struggled after that, but he was damn good for us too. Nunez was our 4th best reliever...and even Robinson Tejada was better than him when he got here, striking out OVER a batter per inning with an ERA of 3.20. Also, Carlos Rosa appears to have the makings of a dominant reliever. Leo Nunez will not be missed AT ALL. He's decent when healthy..which isn't that often.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Keith Law weighed in today (Insider only). Some excerpts:
Quote:
I addressed this briefly in chat Thursday, but it's worth reiterating: The Royals' trade for Mike Jacobs was a profoundly wrongheaded move.
His reasons why are simple....Jacobs is not an every day first basemen. Horrendous defense, poor OBP and never walks, which was one of the big problems with the Royals offense (one of only 3 AL teams since 1931 to walk less than 400 times), and can't hit lefties...and that jives with what I said earlier - he'd be okay as a platoon DH used only against righties.
Quote:
For the privilege of burning a roster spot on Jacobs, the Royals will pay him between $2 million and $3 million this year in arbitration while they have to find a platoon partner for him and pay that player as well, to say nothing of the higher salaries he'll earn in 2010 and 2011. (In fact, several industry sources told me they expected the Marlins would have non-tendered Jacobs in December.)
And here's what he has to say about Nunez, and it's nothing spectacular:
Quote:
The player the Marlins received in return, Leo Nunez, is, in scouting parlance, "a guy." He can pitch in a big-league pen. He might grow up to be an eighth inning guy, but probably not. He costs nothing and can give you 60-70 decent innings. He throws strikes with a low-90s cutter, will flash a four-seamer up to 94-95, and throws a fringy slider; his changeup is poor and lefties hit him hard, although his arm slot might be all right for a splitter. He's under control for four more years and should be a good value for at least the first three even if he never develops a true swing-and-miss pitch.
Nunez is not a star, but he has value; the Marlins got that value for a player they were probably going to discard in two months, while the Royals just miscalculated badly and are threatening to exacerbate the biggest offensive problem in 2008, their lack of patience.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
Keith Law weighed in today (Insider only). Some excerpts:
His reasons why are simple....Jacobs is not an every day first basemen. Horrendous defense, poor OBP and never walks, which was one of the big problems with the Royals offense (one of only 3 AL teams since 1931 to walk less than 400 times), and can't hit lefties...and that jives with what I said earlier - he'd be okay as a platoon DH used only against righties.
And here's what he has to say about Nunez, and it's nothing spectacular:
I'd love to see how Nunez is a guy who gives you "60-70 decent innings." He's gotten hurt every single year since he's been a Royal.
It's not like this is going to be our only move of the offseason. If it were, that would be a disappointing offseason. Keity Law seems to think that this is our "big move" to improve our offense. It's not. Hopefully Jacobs can improve it a little, but we aren't even depending on Jacobs very much. If he's good, great, if he's not, we have others to replace him. I think this is a minor deal for the Royals...Mike Jacobs isn't the "answer to our offensive problems." The Jose Guillen signing was bad b/c he was our "big acquisition" that was supposed to siginificanly upgrade our offense. We gave him big money..THAT was a bad move. Mike Jacobs is just a small piece that we hope will work out...we're not attached to him by big money or a long contract or anything.....and we didn't give up anything we will regret to get him. Trading J.P. Howell for Joey Gathright..that was bad. The Guillen signing..that was bad. Trading our fourth best reliever for a decent hitter with good power and terrible OBP...that's not bad. Not great...but not worth criticism. As for the platoon idea...Jacobs mashed righties. Butler mashes lefties. Sounds good to me.
Keith Law is just jumping on another chance to bash the Royals. Just like before the 2008 season when he said he thought the Royals were going to lose 98 games, just like when he bashed Zack Greinke as a bust, just like he criticized the Gil Meche signing and said that it is ruining the pitching FA market, and just like him writing a full scouting report on Daniel Cortes (AA pitching prospect) and calling him overrated and a future long man at best..and then later admitting that he had never actually seen him pitch before writing the scouting report. I'm glad Keith Law hates it, just another hater to prove wrong. People need to get over this "oh, they are the Royals, they must suck" mentality....otherwise we're gonna sneak up on an awful lot of people..just like the Rays did this year..even though anyone paying attention could've seen this coming. (Not saying the Royals are like the Rays next year OR that you, HoustonGM, are one of the "haters")
HoustonGM, your points about Jacobs are valid..I don't disagree with them much. Jacobs isn't all that great. I just think you and most others are massively overrating Nunez.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Also...I just want to point out..all of you who are calling Leo Nunez a very good young reliever.....he is listed at 6'1" and 160 lbs...and I'd say that's being generous. They probably weighed him with his full uniform on. Get ready for a lot of this Marlin fans. His mechanics are awful and he's as very scrawny....especially his legs. His pitching is all arm..and that's just a terrible recipe. He can probably make it through about 30 good innings to start the year..and then his fastball will drop to about 88 or 89 mph in July like it has in the past..then it'll be elbow soreness...15-day DL, rehab for a couple weeks, comes back..still throwing 88 mph...then by September he might be back to full strength for 5 or 6 more good innings.
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/...nd1gf/610x.jpg
Skinny arm. Lots of torque in that elbow.
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/...sKd33/340x.jpg
An annual occurence.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KowboyKoop
Keith Law is just jumping on another chance to bash the Royals.
Law's one of my favorite writers, and I find it funny that fans of every team seem to think that he "hates" their team and jumps at every chance to bash them. So, this isn't going to be on the Jacobs trade, but I felt like checking some of these things out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
Just like before the 2008 season when he said he thought the Royals were going to lose 98 games
He projected them to go 70-92, and then went 75-87 with a Pythagorean record of 71-91. I'd say he nailed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
just like when he bashed Zack Greinke as a bust,
Can't find anywhere where he said that. The only thing I can find is from June of 2007 in his review of the 2002 draft where he said:
Quote:
So out of 16 pitchers, seven (or six, if you don't count Saunders) turned out to be worthy of their selections, and Greinke has a chance to eventually make it eight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
just like he criticized the Gil Meche signing and said that it is ruining the pitching FA market,
Also can't find where he said this. In fact, in his review of the deal he concluded:
Quote:
It's unlikely that Meche will pitch well and often enough to provide a good return on this investment. But to the extent that this is part of a larger plan to build the 2008-plus rotation, as long as Meche can give them 30 starts a year, it's a step in the right direction. And if the Royals can do the unlikely and get results from Meche that come close to the quality of his stuff, he'll be a good investment in his own right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
and just like him writing a full scouting report on Daniel Cortes (AA pitching prospect) and calling him overrated and a future long man at best..and then later admitting that he had never actually seen him pitch before writing the scouting report.
Can't find this either. Below is what I did find from Law on Cortes...nothing close to what you've said:
At the time the Royals acquired him:
Quote:
The Royals also acquired Dan Cortes, a 6-foot-5, 205-pound, 19-year-old right-hander who was Chicago's seventh-round pick in 2005. He has a fringe-average fastball and flashes a plus breaking ball at times but is still raw and has a fair amount of projection. He's an ideal second guy in a trade, especially given the paucity of pitching in the Royals' system.
Recently:
Quote:
He's further away than I would have thought a month ago. He's still pretty raw. I've also heard that his off-field issues are ... well, they're something to consider when valuing him.
Earlier this year:
Quote:
Benjamin: Lawrence, KS: So how would you rate how Moore has done in KC? Neyer gives him a C+ stating he doesn't know how to spend money and the minor league system is still bare.
Keith Law: The system is not bare, not after this draft. Moustakas and Cortes are both good prospects, even if I'm a little below the consensus on them. Bare is, say, the White Sox' system. The Royals lack depth but have a couple of potential impact guys. Maybe more than a couple if you think I'm light on Moustakas.
And back on to the Jacobs trade,
Quote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
HoustonGM, your points about Jacobs are valid..I don't disagree with them much. Jacobs isn't all that great. I just think you and most others are massively overrating Nunez.
I don't think he's great. He's a young arm, cheap, maybe a slightly above average reliever, injury concerns like a lot of young pitchers. I just wouldn't trade him for a 28 year old platoon DH entering his arbitration years.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
Law's one of my favorite writers, and I find it funny that fans of every team seem to think that he "hates" their team and jumps at every chance to bash them. So, this isn't going to be on the Jacobs trade, but I felt like checking some of these things out.
He projected them to go 70-92, and then went 75-87 with a Pythagorean record of 71-91. I'd say he nailed it.
Can't find anywhere where he said that. The only thing I can find is from June of 2007 in his review of the 2002 draft
where he said:
Also can't find where he said this. In fact, in his
review of the deal he concluded:
Can't find this either. Below is what I did find from Law on Cortes...nothing close to what you've said:
At the time the Royals acquired him:
Recently:
Earlier this year:
And back on to the Jacobs trade,
I don't think he's great. He's a young arm, cheap, maybe a slightly above average reliever, injury concerns like a lot of young pitchers. I just wouldn't trade him for a 28 year old platoon DH entering his arbitration years.
Well, I'm just going by what I've seen and heard from various sources, blogs, message boards, his chats, whatever. I'm not gonna claim to have read everything he writes. I know he's said a lot of those things though...except for the 98 loss one..I could be misremembering that one and that could've been for the 2007 season or something. I know he's said that Greinke looks to be heading down the path to being a bust when we moved him to the pen in 2007. I know that he said that signings like the Gil Meche signing were ruining the FA market..and I know that he said he's never seen Cortes pitch after writing a scouting report for him. Others might be debatable, but I remember those things. I don't have links to them or when he said them...people obviously change their minds and whatever..so whatever, I can't prove anything, but I know what I've heard. Not worth arguing about, back to the trade.
Average 1B > Average reliever when your team has an awful offense, not one single proven 1B, and a pretty good bullpen.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KowboyKoop
Average 1B > Average reliever when your team has an awful offense, not one single proven 1B, and a pretty good bullpen.
Jacobs is not an average first basemen.
The team has an awful offense in large part due to their aversion to walks, which Mike Jacobs just makes exacerbates.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
Jacobs is not an average first basemen.
The team has an awful offense in large part due to their aversion to walks, which Mike Jacobs just makes exacerbates.
Well, he's got a career EQA of .275, with .260 being average. Fine, he may not be an "average 1B" overall, but going by EQA, he's an above average hitter overall. The team does need to add more OBP. That's why we're going to do more to upgrade the offense. Mike Jacobs is probably the most minor move we'll make to upgrade our offense....and we gave up a guy we won't miss for one second. I'm still not seeing how this deal hurts us. We were one of the worst teams in OBP. We were also one of the worst in SLG. We need both. If Jacobs were our biggest acquisition to help our offense, that would be bad and my opinion of the deal will change. However, it won't be...it'll probably be the most minor.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KowboyKoop
Well, he's got a career EQA of .275, with .260 being average. Fine, he may not be an "average 1B" overall, but going by EQA, he's an above average hitter overall.
Yes, he's an above average hitter overall. But not for a first basemen. Plus, he's a huge negative defensively, and against lefties. Like I said, he's an okay platoon DH.
Quote:
I'm still not seeing how this deal hurts us.
As I said earlier, I don't think it really hurts as much as it just does little to improve the team's future outlook, while using up a resource that could've been used to improve the team in an area where they have a very clear need.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
Yes, he's an above average hitter overall. But not for a first basemen. Plus, he's a huge negative defensively, and against lefties. Like I said, he's an okay platoon DH.
As I said earlier, I don't think it really hurts as much as it just does little to improve the team's future outlook, while using up a resource that could've been used to improve the team in an area where they have a very clear need.
Jacobs defense does suck. Good thing he's playing the least important defensive position on the diamond. Catch the ball when it is thrown to you. We've had a big emphasis on 1B defense each of the past few seasons....Doug Mientkiewicz and Ross Gload, two supposedly great gloves. Didn't work. Of course I'd love to have a 1B with a great OBP, great SLG, and stellar defense. Unfortunately, not many of those are available...unless our prayers are answered and Kila Kaaihue goes from a guy who looked like an idiot in AA ball to a true impact bat in two years. That seems pretty unlikely. We have to take some chances. We are taking a chance. If it doesn't work, we lose a guy who can't even strike out that many batters in relief.
Okay....our biggest need is a good outfielder. Gordon at 3B looks good. Aviles at SS looks nice. Alberto Callaspo is a good bet to put up a .340+ OBP at 2B. Let's say we sign an above average outfielder...that's what we need to do to improve the offense. Jacobs is just another option at 1B. Maybe he'll do well, maybe he won't. This is a minor trade and people are going off on it like it's our big move of the year that we think is going to make our offense awesome. Nobody thinks that..but we're being criticized for thinking it.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
I say sigh texeria and sabathia... that will help drasticly :p
oh and get manny for the OF :p
are the Royals still owned by walmart?
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
David Glass was the former president and CEO of WalMart, so with their low prices, instead of C.C., Teixeira, and Manny, the Royals will sign Odalis Perez, Richie Sexson, and Kevin Mench. And you will be happy with it.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
http://www.stjoenews.net/news/2009/j...rarchy/?sports
Quote:
“They may be a small-market team, but I don’t think it’s as small as it was over in Florida. It’s definitely been a change for me,” Jacobs said at the Royals Caravan stop in St. Joseph on Thursday. “It’ll be nice to have some fans in the stands and some people excited about baseball.
“Coming from 5,000 people in the stands to 20,000 or 25,000 or whatever we usually get over here, it’s definitely exciting. I look forward to playing in front of some people."
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
filihok
Lol, it must suck to feel that the Royals have a great fan base compared to your old team
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
lol id rather havd no fans and a chance to compete...
and in KC thats not happening. It has to be one of the most poorly run baseball teams in the sport. Them and PITT. I mean every team has dry spells but still... I mean even FL as much as we talk and complain about their owners... they generaly out a quality team on the field.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheNamelessPoet
lol id rather havd no fans and a chance to compete...
and in KC thats not happening. It has to be one of the most poorly run baseball teams in the sport. Them and PITT. I mean every team has dry spells but still... I mean even FL as much as we talk and complain about their owners... they generaly out a quality team on the field.
SHH!!! Don't say that, or Kowboy Koop will drain your soul!
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Both KC and Pitt. are under new front office management, and both have been doing better.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheNamelessPoet
lol id rather havd no fans and a chance to compete...
and in KC thats not happening. It has to be one of the most poorly run baseball teams in the sport. Them and PITT. I mean every team has dry spells but still... I mean even FL as much as we talk and complain about their owners... they generaly out a quality team on the field.
We were better than the Braves last year...and have improved each of the past three years and will do again next year...but keep on listening to ESPN if you must. KC used to be one of the worst run in sports. It's been a lot better the past three years. Upped payroll a lot, way better drafting/farm system...just outspent everyone in last year's draft. Don't worry about KC, we're doing just fine...we'll likely be a .500 team next year. Nothing to get excited about, but clearly far from the "can't compete" level.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
Both KC and Pitt. are under new front office management, and both have been doing better.
Especially Pitt, they finally seem to be heading up. I like their new management
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KowboyKoop
We were better than the Braves last year...and have improved each of the past three years and will do again next year...but keep on listening to ESPN if you must. KC used to be one of the worst run in sports. It's been a lot better the past three years. Upped payroll a lot, way better drafting/farm system...just outspent everyone in last year's draft. Don't worry about KC, we're doing just fine...we'll likely be a .500 team next year. Nothing to get excited about, but clearly far from the "can't compete" level.
im not comparing the 2... i think they may be looking up. id LOVE to see them in the 85 or so win range. and thas 1 year of disasterous injuries to 3-5 of the staff for the braves... its going to happen now and then.
I like seing the smaller teams get back into it. I think in 3-5 years the Royas and Pitt will be pretty far crom the celler, especialy since the Royals already are :D
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
The Pirates lost 95 games last year, in a crappy league/division. They had one good pitcher last year. Literally every other starter they had was complete garbage, except for Duke, who was mediocre, but at least gave them 185 innings of mediocre pitching and didn't completly stink up the ballpark like all the others. They had a few nice offensive pieces last year (traded two of them away), but their pitching looks so bad..I don't see how anyone can think they compare to the Royals improving and outlook for the future, at least the next couple seasons.
The Royals have a pretty nice 1-2 punch at the top of the rotation, including Greinke, who will probably keep getting better..and two other potentially pretty nice starters..as well as a decent amount of depth for the #5 spot. Add in an elite closer and the fact that DM has clearly shown the ability to put together a bullpen every year...and Gordon, DeJesus, Aviles, Butler and maybe Kile as potential cores of the offense..the Royals are a legit .500 team next year..better if they catch a lot (a LOT) of breaks. The Pirates have lost 95 game 3 of the past 4 years, and 94 that other year. The Royals have gone from 56 wins in 2005 to 75 wins last year. 19 wins of improvement over three seasons, all while playing in the vastly superior AL.
The Pirates farm system is probably better than the Royals, most of the Royals talent is in A ball (some moving to AA in '09), with maybe two or three decent or better prospects in AAA (Cortes, Rosa, Ka'aihue..absolute monster year last year)....but I just don't see how anyone can act like the Pirates are in better shape than the Royals. I think anyone trying to criticize the Royals organization needs to take a closer look at the actual roster and players and stats rather than just seeing "Royals = suck."
I know the Royals by heart...and I'm looking at the Pirates info pretty hard..I don't see any way anybody can see it differently. The Royals should realistically win 79-83 games next year. The Pirates look like a 70 win team at best with that awful starting pitching. Put us in the NL and we're legit contenders (not a division favorite, but very, very much in the mix). Put the Pirates in the AL and they pray to not lose 100.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KowboyKoop
The Pirates lost 95 games last year, in a crappy league/division. They had one good pitcher last year. Literally every other starter they had was complete garbage, except for Duke, who was mediocre, but at least gave them 185 innings of mediocre pitching and didn't completly stink up the ballpark like all the others. They had a few nice offensive pieces last year (traded two of them away), but their pitching looks so bad..I don't see how anyone can think they compare to the Royals improving and outlook for the future, at least the next couple seasons.
The Royals outlook is better over the next couple seasons, but the Pirates do have some good young players, and with a front office that is willing to spend on the draft now (see Pedro Alvarez) instead of routinely taking mediocre "safe bets" over high-impact talent, it certainly is looking up for the Pirates.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
The Royals outlook is better over the next couple seasons, but the Pirates do have some good young players, and with a front office that is willing to spend on the draft now (see Pedro Alvarez) instead of routinely taking mediocre "safe bets" over high-impact talent, it certainly is looking up for the Pirates.
Which team is it that spent the most in all of baseball on the draft last year? What team is it that has dealt with and successfully signed three Boras clients in a row as first round picks...as well as signing Tim Melville last year, a guy who dropped (4th round if I recall correctly) because of signability concerns...he's seen as a first round talent. Those are hardly "safe bets." Also, upping international spending, including opening new academies in Latin America, and scouting in Japan, and adding an additional major league team. ALso, upping payroll to the 75+ million dollar range with sights set higher now that stadium renovations are complete.
The Royals.
All the stuff you described is very true of the Royals up until start of the '06 season. That's why the organization was a disaster. For the past three years, a lot of things have changed significantly..and it's showing up.
I agree things are starting to look up for the Pirates, but the Royals are clearly, CLEARLY farther ahead as of right now. Three or four years from now, who knows...but as of right now, the Royals are in much better shape.
..and yes, I realize you aren't questioning the Royals. The discussion has evolved into talking about the Pirates and Royals..so I'm talking about the Royals. Just getting things out there...not trying to argue with you about it.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Yeah, as you said, I was just mentioning the Pirates. Both teams, I think, have futures to look forward to. The Royals future is closer, though.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
The Royals outlook is better over the next couple seasons, but the Pirates do have some good young players, and with a front office that is willing to spend on the draft now (see Pedro Alvarez) instead of routinely taking mediocre "safe bets" over high-impact talent, it certainly is looking up for the Pirates.
Yeah, but they were weren't willing to shell out enough to get Scheppers to sign.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...c-tb-seriously
Quote:
Colleague Matthew Carruth said it best: The 2009 Royals may actually be the Rays… the 1998-2007 Rays.
Sorry Kowboy
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
Quote:
Originally Posted by
filihok
The spot on mlb.tv was prett bad. No, the Royals aren't going to be the Rays of '09. I don't know why you think that would be disappointing to me.
However, that article you posted is just as bad. We are going to be dependent on a breakout campaign from Zack Greinke!?!??! Boy, perhaps someone should tell this guy that Greinke was a pretty good pitcher last year...you know, 183 Ks, over a 3:1 K:BB ratio and a 3.47 ERA over 200 innings last year. How the F is that not a breakout campaign?? What does he mean by saying we need him to have a breakout campaign?? 2.50 ERA!??!? Greinke is already a damn good starting pitcher, close to an ace, and is 24 years old. I also like how he doesn't want to talk about the 4.32, 4.51, and 5.10 FIP pitchers we have returning from last year, all three of whom are fairly young..that's a pretty solid back of the rotation returning from last year and they could all improve (could).
As for the bullpen, Ron Mahay was very good last year until he got hurt late in the year, Robinson Tejeda was good in relief when we acquired him...to say we have little outside of Soria in the bullpen is an inaccurate and irrelevant point, given the fickle nature of bullpens/relievers from year to year. Dayton Moore has put together a good bullpen based on young power arms every year he's been here, there's no reason to think he won't do it again...but I see he doesn't want to talk about that...he just figures that since it's the Royals and he can't name the other guys..it must mean they have nothing.
The offense isn't going to be great, but it should get a little better with continued development of Gordon and Butler and getting rid of black holes like Joey Gathright, Tony Pena Jr. and Ross Gload's ABs. Pretty much every projection of our team that I've seen has us at about a .500 team, and I'd say that's about where I have them too. I don't see the shame in that.
Yes, the MLB.TV spot was bad..but so is this article. If you're gonna try to analyze a piece about a team and criticize it, you should probably do more than just throw out a couple names with almost zero information and base your entire argument on that.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
The point he tries to make about our starting pitching is the most laughable.
"The 2009 Royals have little in their bullpen outside of Joakim Soria, are going to be dependent on another solid season from Gil Meche and a breakout campaign from Zack Greinke to make even their 1-2 pitchers effective."
What a joke. Our 1-2 pitchers gave us over 410 innings, 363 Ks, a 3:1 K:BB ratio and a combined 3.62 ERA, yet this joker thinks we still need Greinke to break out just for them to be "effective." That's one of the stupidest things I've ever read. I love reading things like this...I can hardly stop laughing at people trying to analyze things..yet be off so badly.
-
Re: Marlins send Jacobs to Royals
http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/ind...unheralded-ace
Here's a far better article..about Zack Greinke. You know..the guy that needs to finally have that "breakout season" and really needs to "put things together" to be a good pitcher for once. (Plesac said this..in the mlb.tv piece).
Boy, I sure hope that Greinke can finally learn how to be an effective starter......otherwise he'll have to be considered a bust soon.
