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The Marlins sent first basemen Mike Jacobs to the Royals for reliever Leo Nunez.
Great trade for the Marlins. Jacobs is a horrendous defender with an inability to get on base, and the Royals already have similar or better players in that Kila kid and Ryan Shealy. Leo Nunez is a young reliever with a lot of promise.
Yeah, this is pretty dumb on the Royals part. Who will be the 1B in Florida now, Gaby Sanchez?
Just shows you the royals have NO IDEA how baseball works
I was a fan of Jacobs - one of my favorite Marlins. Lots of power, good lefty hitter. The OBP is a problem, and since KC already has the other 1Bs with that potential...it doesn't really make sense for them. Maybe they'll be doing more dealing?
EVEN has a point; who will be 1B for the Marlins now?
Oh wait, they'll probably make a move for Texeira. HAAAAhahaha
Solid trade for the Marlins, they need some RP, I heard the Royals are looking to shop Billy Butler now.
lol u add texeria to that lineup and its pretty formitable :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Alloutwar
they sigh him to 5 years and trade him after 2 and get a BOATLOAD back (unless he stops hitting)
They said the main reason for the deal is the Royals NEEDED a Power bat.
Where you'd hear that? I HIGHLY doubt that. Butler wasn't penciled in at first base, but rather DH, and he's not moving from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewCrewFan255
What they NEED is OBP, and Jacobs exacerbates that problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockiesfan4ever
yea, but they think they need a power bat
What they NEED is a decent GM. They have not made good moves since SCHULERHULTZ left for ATLANTA
Rotoworld's take:
And on Nunez:Quote:
The Royals' finished with a .320 team OBP that ranked 27th in the majors last season, and Dayton Moore's answer to that problem is to pick up a first baseman who finished at .299. Jacobs did hit 32 homers, but he's a 28-year-old with a career .262/.318/.498 line and he's a below average defender at first base. With Alex Gordon looking like a liability at third base and Kila Ka'aihue and Ryan Shealy both potentially capable of posting 800 OPSs in the majors, this move only serves to give Royals fans more hope of another 75-win season in 2009. The Marlins will likely let Gaby Sanchez and Dallas McPherson battle it out to become Jacobs' replacement. Sanchez will be the favorite, but the Marlins would be better defensively with McPherson at third and Jorge Cantu at first.
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A nice pickup for the Marlins, as Nunez is 24 years old, cheap and has posted a 3.42 ERA with a 63/25 K/BB ratio in 92 innings over the past two seasons. He'll likely slide into a setup role initially, but could be in the mix for saves at some point in 2009.
On MLBtrade rumors a writer said this
Jazayerli considers the Royals acquiring Jacobs a terrible idea, and worries that it could lead to a Billy Butler trade.
That's not the same as the Royals actually looking to trade him. It's unsubstantiated by anything, and it also isn't even a rumor, considering he just said that he WORRIES it might lead to a trade, not that he heard it migt.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewCrewFan255
Jacobs, though, is a horrendous fielder and ranks as one of the worst first basemen in the majors in any defensive stat, take your pick.
Moore atleast has some direction to the team
Mediocrity?Quote:
Originally Posted by rockiesfan4ever
That is better then what they have been :pQuote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
They need a lot of things. Doesn't mean they should be making bad tradesQuote:
Originally Posted by rockiesfan4ever
Hey, i was just saying what the paper said
Rob Neyer on the trade/Dayton Moore:
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Moore repeated on-base percentage 29 times in one interview. Dayton Moore gets it, finally … until his very first significant offseason move, when he acquires an everyday player who will, more than anything, be a drag on the team's on-base percentage. This is exactly the sort of thing the Royals would have done 20 years ago -- those teams were perennially OBP-challenged, too -- which, come to think of it, makes a lot of sense because the man making the moves 20 years ago was John Schuerholz. Moore's mentor before he got his job with the Royals? John Schuerholz.
Moore was supposed to build Schuerholz's winning Braves of the 1990s. But instead he's rebuilding Schuerholz's losing Royals of the late 1980s and early '90s. And we had such high hopes for the young man.
Here is Rany's full take on trading for Mike Jacobs...written before the trade became official, but that changes nothing. Warning: It might as well be a book, :pQuote:
Originally Posted by BrewCrewFan255
Bad trade for Florida. A very good young 1B for.... Leo Nunez?
:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
Mike Jacobs is not very good, NOR is he young.
Leo Nunez is a very good, young reliever.
Relievers come pretty cheap. I don't think Nunez is the next MoRiv or anything. In the long run this deal probably ends up as a wash
Mike Jacobs is 28. And he's quite good.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Leo Nunez, I've never heard of.
Mike Jacobs isn't a stud, nor is he a dud, he will provide you good power but that's all he provides. He hit .230 last year and had 30 homer's, to me he's an all or nothing type of player, on top of that he isn't a gold-glove 1B, but he is a lefty and the Royals really have nothing to loose here.
28 is not young for a first basemen with old player skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
He's also not "quite good." He's terrible defensively, has negative baserunning value, never walks, and can't hit lefties. He'd be okay as a platoon DH against righties, because power is his only skill.
Educate yourself.Quote:
Leo Nunez, I've never heard of.
24 year old reliever, solid performance so far in the majors the last 2 years.
Gaby Sanchez's minor league numbers... he has pop in his bat and decent speed, but he'll be making the jump from AA. He also played some at third base and catcher.
Actually, he seems to be either slower then he thinks he is or a stupid baserunner. He barely triples, and gets caught stealing too much. Not that he is slow, but he definately is being used badly in running terms. His versibilty could make him pretty useful, he has stats that may fit better as a 2nd or 3rd baseman in the long runQuote:
Originally Posted by BINGLEBOP
Sorry, but you're wrong on this one. Leo Nunez is insanely skinny...go look up a picture of him. Then watch his motion. He is EXTREMELY injury prone. He didn't even have great K or BB numbers last year when he was available to pitch. His control is often erratic.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Now, Jacobs certainly isn't without flaw..but he has a career OPS+ of 110 while playing in a big ballpark. I fail to see how this is a bad trade for the Royals. Everyone says we have a huge logjam of similar players? Uhhh..as a diehard Royals fan, I'd love to hear about this wonderful problem we have. Kila Kaaihue has had ONE good year in the minors in his career. Billy Butler, while full of potential, wasn't that great last year. Ryan Shealy had one good month last year and has more leg injuries in his past than I can possibly count. The last guy is Ross Gload, who is a waste of a good uniform.
Mike Jacobs isn't a great hitter, but he's a pretty decent one..and getting a pretty decent hitter for a decent reliever who is a gigantic injury risk every single year...I don't see how we lose this one. Leo couldn't even strike out 5 batters per 9 innings as a reliever last year..that's pathetic for supposedly having amazing stuff. Again...Jacob's isn't great, but you guys are MASSIVELY overrating Leo Nunez..a guy none of you have probably ever heard of before this (and deservedly so..he's simply decent).
Also...I just can't understand how you say that Ryan Shealy and Kila Kaaihue are better than Mike Jacobs.......I don't understand that one at all. Kila has had one good minor league season and will be starting in AAA next year to prove it wasn't a fluke...and Shealy...uh...can you provide any evidence that he's already better than Mike Jacobs?? He did have one good month.
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Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet
Ever heard of Joakim Soria? My Royals were a lot better than your Braves last year and will be so again this year. Rapidly improving farm system, especially in the low minors, a legit top two in our rotation, some young hitters who are getting better..and a lockdown back end of the bullpen. Sorry, but the Royals aren't NEARLY as bad as you might think...put us in the sorry NL East and we'd have been above .500....as our amazing interleague record might indicate (best in baseball...in case you didn't know).
Also, Mike Jacobs lower OBP (than his career average) was due to a low BABIP...260 last year as compared to his previous seasons BABIPs of .311, .295, and .294.
This certainly isn't a great trade for the Royals, Jacobs isn't the "solution" to our offensive woes...but for giving up Leo Nunez...that's pretty good value. Jacobs OBP will improve some..to .320 or so (still not very good), but if he can maintain a good SLG.....he certainly helps our offense. What our offense needs is Gordon to keep developing (.392 OBP in the 2nd half) and others to improve their OBPs..like DeJesus and Callaspo hopefully in the #1 and 2 spots...along with Kila hopefully emerging later in the season...as he is supposedly an OBP machine.
Now, as for Rany's thoughts on the trade.....he also hated the Gil Meche signing, wants to move Gordon to 1B to make Mark Teahen our everyday 3B, was hyping John Buck as an All-Star caliber catcher as late as early this year, hated the Ambiorix Burgos for Brian Bannister trade when it happened, loved the Ross Gload acquisition..on and on and on I could go. Not to say he never has valid points.....but him not liking the trade doesn't faze me a bit. It's a good trade...but not such a good one that it makes us contenders or anything ridiculous like that. It improves the offense a little bit and allows Carlos Rosa to most likely take Nunez's spot in the bullpen..which is also an improvement most likely.
It's not really a bad trade as much as it is a useless one. As Rany said in his long blog entry, it improves the Royals for 2009, but the Royals aren't going anywhere in 2009, and Jacobs isn't likely to be part of the next good Royals team.Quote:
Originally Posted by KowboyKoop
As a 24 year old, at a level appropriate to his age, it's entirely likely that his breakout this past year was for real. There's plenty of guys who did nothing in the minors, broke out, and then went on to be good (and yes, I know, there's plenty of guys who went on to do nothing too, but the trick is being able to make educated decisions about which are flukes and which aren't). Geovany Soto did nothing until breaking out last year, and now he's the likely ROTY. Miguel Cabrera had horrible minor league performance until breaking out in AA and never looking back. The Royals had their own experience with a guy like that this year in Mike Aviles.Quote:
Everyone says we have a huge logjam of similar players? Uhhh..as a diehard Royals fan, I'd love to hear about this wonderful problem we have. Kila Kaaihue has had ONE good year in the minors in his career.
He may not be better than Jacobs, but he's not much worse. He's a better defender, that's for sure, and while he doesn't have Jacobs power, he'll post a better OBP and likely an OPS+ of at least 100, which is par for the course for Jacobs. Plus, he has upside, while Jacobs has none.
Don't give up so quickly. He's a 22 year old whose shown a very potent bat.Quote:
Billy Butler, while full of potential, wasn't that great last year.
Shealy's hit wherever he goes but has never been given a real shot.Quote:
Ryan Shealy had one good month last year and has more leg injuries in his past than I can possibly count.
You're right on that.Quote:
The last guy is Ross Gload, who is a waste of a good uniform.
The three guys not named Gload are all very capable of putting up numbers just like Jacobs, except with a trade-off of some power for OBP, and the first two both have upside.
I might've been a bit too hard in my critique of it. I wouldn't say you lose it, so much as it does nothing to improve the outlook of the franchise, and doesn't fill a spot of need.Quote:
Mike Jacobs isn't a great hitter, but he's a pretty decent one..and getting a pretty decent hitter for a decent reliever who is a gigantic injury risk every single year...I don't see how we lose this one.
I'd rather have a decent 24 year old reliever with upside than a late-20's all-or-nothing hitter that's not likely to age well, and is about to cost a couple million bucks, but that's just me. If the Royals had a huge hole at first base, I wouldn't really have a problem with the deal, but they don't.Quote:
Again...Jacob's isn't great, but you guys are MASSIVELY overrating Leo Nunez..a guy none of you have probably ever heard of before this (and deservedly so..he's simply decent).
My words were "similar or better." I'm confident that one of Shealy, Butler, or Kaiihue could post a 100-110 OPS+. The "or better" is because Butler and Kaiihue both have good upside.Quote:
Also...I just can't understand how you say that Ryan Shealy and Kila Kaaihue are better than Mike Jacobs.......I don't understand that one at all. Kila has had one good minor league season and will be starting in AAA next year to prove it wasn't a fluke...and Shealy...uh...can you provide any evidence that he's already better than Mike Jacobs?? He did have one good month.
It's not like his .318 career OBP is anything amazing. In fact, it's still terrible. He has a low OBP for one reason - he rarely walks.Quote:
Also, Mike Jacobs lower OBP (than his career average) was due to a low BABIP...260 last year as compared to his previous seasons BABIPs of .311, .295, and .294.
Fair take.Quote:
This certainly isn't a great trade for the Royals, Jacobs isn't the "solution" to our offensive woes...but for giving up Leo Nunez...that's pretty good value. Jacobs OBP will improve some..to .320 or so (still not very good), but if he can maintain a good SLG.....he certainly helps our offense. What our offense needs is Gordon to keep developing (.392 OBP in the 2nd half) and others to improve their OBPs..like DeJesus and Callaspo hopefully in the #1 and 2 spots...along with Kila hopefully emerging later in the season...as he is supposedly an OBP machine.
So I suppose you're happy that the Marlins were turned off by Carlos Rosa's health reports? Rosa was originally the Marlins' target before Nunez.Quote:
It improves the offense a little bit and allows Carlos Rosa to most likely take Nunez's spot in the bullpen..which is also an improvement most likely.
I'd also say this....while Nunez himself isn't necessarily a great pitcher, he likely could've been used to get something much better than Mike Jacobs. He was about to net Milton Bradley some time back...before Bradley's fantastic 2008, yes, but Bradley's always been a very good hitter, just with injury and attitude concerns.
Him or move Cantu to first, Cantu have shown flashes of great plays at 1st from time to time, maybe that mean he plays better defense there.Quote:
Originally Posted by EVEN11323
Not to rain on your KC parade there, KKoop, but the Royals did not have the best interleague record in 2008. The Twins went 14-4, and the Royals were tied for second at 13-5. Small point, I know. Of course, they also fattened up the record with a 7-2 mark vs the putrid NL West. All-time, the Royals interleague record is the third worst in the AL.
The Royals were basically the same team in 2008 as they were in 2007. They won a few more games, but that might well be a mirage, as their run differential was worse. This version of the Royals is still far better than the disasters of 2004, 2005, and 2006, no doubt. They still have a long way to go before they would meet anyones criteria of a "good" team though. From what I see, in 2009 they are more likely to win 65 games than 85.
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Originally Posted by HoustonGM
I'm thrilled that the Marlins were turned off of Rosa. Rosa had a strained forearm in August and we shut him down for the year as a precaution. Sure, he's an injury risk, but he has a LOT more upside than Nunez and Nunez is a FAR bigger health risk. Nunez will be on the DL at some point this year, he's literally one of the skinniest pitchers in the game and his mechanices are violent. It's a virtual guarantee.
Let me finish by saying that I don't disagree with you all that much on Mike Jacobs. The part I think you are off about is Leo Nunez. Nunez was our fourth best reliever last year, is often injured, and his K/BB numbers last year were anything but impressive..less than 5 K/per 9 is pretty bad for a reliever. We gave up a guy who we can easily replace and got another option for our offense. Jacobs will make 3 million dollars next year...it's not like we are heavily invested in him. He'll get his shot, if he sucks, we have other options..if he produces like he did in Florida, it improves our offense a little bit.
I don't care if all-time our record is 3rd worst, I'm only talking about last year. When talking about how good the Rays are, you gonna bring up their record in 2001??Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampdog
There is no chance in hell we are more likely to win 65 than 85. Our starting pitching and bullpen is way too good for that. Greinke and Meche are a legit top of the rotation, Soria is a dominant closer (along with other very good relievers), Davies looks to have found something last year, Hochevar's ERA should've been way better than it was last year (FIP in the mid 4s I believer). That's potentially four pretty good starting pitchers and a lock-down closer. Combine that with Gordon having a breakout 2nd half last year and a few other nice hitters...we're a legit .500 team next year if we can add a little more offense. We've gone from 56 wins to 62 wins to 69 wins to 75 wins, no reason that steay improvement can't continue..and it's only gonna get better as our lower minors is loaded and those guys will start creeping towards AA this year. The Royals would've been above .500 in the NL last year and might be so in '09 in the AL Central. I know that "we're the Royals, ha ha," but we're not nearly as bad as people think....
As for run differential....being punished because our long relievers suck is ridiculous. Not my fault our manager put Hideo Nomo and Kip Wells and Jeff Fulchino in the game so often when we weren't losing by that much. That was our weakest area last year..long relief...and it skewed our run differential.
Yeah, the all-time KC interleague record.., that was my main point all right. That was just additional info. Nice work there.
I commend you for your loyalty to the team you root for. Also for your optimism. Thats what its all about. It is possible that the Royals could have won the NL West this year, but so could some AAA teams. The reality is that the Royals play in the majors though. Some improvement is certainly possible. That applies to just about any team, any year.
All I'm saying is that I wouldn't count on it. Good luck though.