You're whining about both writers and other people on this forum. Because people have picked the Rays, you're claiming that nobody respects the Phillies and we're all "haters."Quote:
Originally Posted by phightinphils
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You're whining about both writers and other people on this forum. Because people have picked the Rays, you're claiming that nobody respects the Phillies and we're all "haters."Quote:
Originally Posted by phightinphils
I guess you are NOT a Phillies fan?Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
:rolleyes:
Same story, different writer.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Do these guys use Prepberger or something?
I don't know if you're familiar with Baseball Prospectus, but Joe Sheehan is a MUCH different writer than the mainstream writers you normally think of.Quote:
Originally Posted by phightinphils
Like I said, there's a reason many people are predicting the Rays to win, and it has nothing to do with liking the feel good story, or hating the Phillies.
From Rob Neyer of ESPN:
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You wonder why everyone's picking the Rays to beat the Phillies? Probably because they don't have any glaring weaknesses and they play in the Big Boy League.
Look, it's perfectly fine to disagree on who we think is going to win the World Series. As you can see, you're not the only person who thinks the Phillies are going to win. I just think you're going a little overboard with your reaction to people picking the Rays to win. It's not a crazy idea in the least bit.
Most of the Baseball Tonight guys just now picked the Phillies...so, not "everyone" is picking the Rays.
Although most of them used completely odd (and sometimes flatout wrong) logic in analyzing the two teams and their chances.
Jay Jaffe and Joe Sheehan ran a "draft" of the two teams as a way to compare the talent of the two teams.
The full article is subscriber-only, but here's the conclusion:
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In search of that evidence, we came up with an idea. Throw the two teams' rosters into a pool and have a draft. If there was some kind of disparity in talent, it should show up in the process of picking teams.
All of the details are below, but let's cut to the conclusion: the Rays' talent matches the Phillies through about the first nine roster spots, then obliterates it through the rest of the roster. In the draft, six of the first nine picks were Rays, though you could argue that the ninth pick (Carl Crawford) was a mistake. Even at that, it was even through the first 19 picks: ten Rays, nine Phillies. That's the top of a roster, more or less: a lineup, a starter, a high-leverage reliever.
Fourteen of the next 21 selections were Rays. The entire middle of the draft was Rays. By the time we got through 40 picks, the remaining pool consisted of nine Phillies and Michel Hernandez, who hasn't played yet this postseason. As Jay put it, "Even into the bench and the deeper bullpen, the Rays' players generally wound up getting chosen before their Philly counterparts."
That's the reason to pick the Rays in six, if not sooner. They simply have more talent than the other guys do.
That's a bummer cuz i think i want Philly to win, and if guys liek Phillips and Kruk are picking them I'm not sure i like thier chances ....Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
But the odd thing is I don't even know anymore... being the Sox fan that I am, after game 7, I wanted the Rays to lose, and nit just lose but lose badly .. however I am now drifting into ambivilance ..
However I am now watching some retarded skit on ESPN about Philly being "cursed" because they built a tall building 1987 ????
Just a note curses are for small minded sports writers to bring up simply beacuse they have now clue what they are talking about.
Heh, that reminds me. I was only half paying attention, but when Kruk picked the Phillies, Karl Ravech said something like..."That's not a good thing for Phillie fans since...you're usually...wrong." LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by gRYFYN1
Anyway, Kruk, Eric Young, and Peter Gammons picked the Phillies, while Tim Kurkjian and Steve Phillips picked the Rays (I think).
So true.Quote:
Just a note curses are for small minded sports writers to bring up simply beacuse they have now clue what they are talking about.
I think Steve Phillips picked the Phillies and Eric Young picked the Rays.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Yeah, you're right.Quote:
Originally Posted by justanewguy
But the Curse of The Bambino and The Curse of The Billy Goat are not part of baseball lore? I guess the small minded writers didn't have a clue as to what would happen 80 years later that people are still talking about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by gRYFYN1
Sure, they're a part of baseball lore.Quote:
Originally Posted by phightinphils
Doesn't make them any less silly, though.
And the Curse of Billy Penn is taken very seriously in Philly. It will be broken this year though.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Actually, the citizen's asked the mayor to NOT put a Phillies hat on the Billy Penn statue on top of City Hall.
We are VERY superstitous.
If it's "broken", that just goes to show that there was never a "curse". Or are the Phillies like secretly practicing some ancient anti-curse magic in the clubhouse?Quote:
Originally Posted by phightinphils
Go ahead, be superstitious, but try not to let that impede your rationality. A hat on a statue doesn't affect the outcome of baseball games.
billy penn?
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Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Tell that to the Cubs fans when Bartman interfered with the foul ball. The cubs were 5 outs from being in the series. I am sure some people believe in that curse.
And you are telling me that nobody was thinking of the Curse of The Bambino when Buckner screwed up that soft grounder against the Mets?
Basic American History. William Penn. PENNsylvania?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet
Curses are just attempts for fans to rationalize why their sports teams lose, when there's really nothing more to it than the teams...lose. The "Curse of Billy Penn" is supposedly a curse on the Philadelphia sport teams, used to explain why there have been no championships by Philadelphia teams since its construction.
Here's the thing...the "curse" actually started 4 years before the construction of this thing, because the 76ers 1983 championship was the last time a Philadelphia team won a championship. So, what happened there? Was there something in 1983 that actually started the curse? Or....does the curse just not exist, and the failure of Philadelphia teams is nothing more than the teams just losing sports games?
Sure, people believe in it. But it's not an actual real thing. Did some magic voodoo make Steve Bartman reach out and grab the ball? Or...did he just do what an overwhelming majority of fans would do if a foul ball is it towards them? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by phightinphils
No, I'm not telling you that nobody was thinking of it. I'm telling you that there was no curse that caused it. It was just Billy Buckner screwing up a play. And the curse is used by sportswriters and fans to rationalize their team's failure. Sportswriters, and fans, are never content with just accepting the fact that sometimes teams lose, and sometimes teams win. They have to invent reasons for it beyond the simple fact that one team played better than the other.Quote:
And you are telling me that nobody was thinking of the Curse of The Bambino when Buckner screwed up that soft grounder against the Mets?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Billy_PennQuote:
Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet
"The "Curse of Billy Penn" is supposedly a curse on the Philadelphia sport teams, used to explain why there have been no championships by Philadelphia teams since its construction".Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
You should research the facts bucko.
City Hall was around long before most people living today were born! The curse is based upon a gentleman's handshake promising that NO buildings were to be built ABOVE the top of William Penn's Hat on the top of City Hall. The construction of the Liberty Towers was agreed upon before 1987. In 1987, it was finished.
So, yes, the last team to win was in 1983, but the building was being designed and discussed WELL before 1987.
More stubborn than a mule.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
When was it agreed upon?Quote:
Originally Posted by phightinphils
Yeah, I'm stubborn because I'm not willing to believe that there are magical forces at work, created by buildings, trades, and goats, controlling the outcome of sporting events. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by phightinphils
If I recall correctly, it was late 1983, early 1984.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
No, not that. I believe that TRUE baseball fans ENJOY talking about these things, and not denouncing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Denouncing them IS talking about them.Quote:
Originally Posted by phightinphils
But, thanks. I guess I'm not a true baseball fan because I believe in rationality. :rolleyes:
Wow, I guess you are right.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
GO PHILLIES!!!!!!!!!!!
All the time I spend reading about the game, playing simulations, analyzing players, etc. is all FALSE! I SECRETLY HATE BASEBALL BECAUSE I DON'T BELIEVE IN MAGIC CURSES!
You had already posted this, why did you move it?Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Figured it'd go better in it's own post since it fit better as a response there, boredom, etc.
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Originally Posted by HoustonGM
LOL!
Good one. Catch you later.
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Originally Posted by phightinphils
Hmm, yes "the curse of the bambino" is total nonsense. any idea of when that started ? some may think in 1920 when he was sold to finance a play, both of which would be wrong ...
1st Ruth was sold in order to complete Frazee's purchase of the Sox and the rebuilding of Fenway ... the play financing was just pork added in, not the driving factor.
2nd, the "curse" didn't start untill metioned by George Vescay after the 1986 WS ... and "The Curse of the Bambino" didn't actually come into play untill 1990
so 25 years ago, no "the curse of the Bambino" was not part of baseball "lore"
Yep. Curses are created after the fact as an attempt to explain the outcomes of games beyond simply "One team won, one team lost."Quote:
Originally Posted by gRYFYN1
ESPN "Experts" picks - 8 pick the Rays, 5 the Phillies. Most pick the series to go 6 or 7 games, and only one picks a sweep.