http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8644878?MSNHPHMA
Printable View
go **** yourself tim mccarver. God I hate that guy.
McCarver is a terrible announcer who repeatedly states falsehoods as if they were true.
Here's a nice little piece from Joe Sheehan at BP about this nonsense.
While there are certianly things Manny did that were wrong....McCarver is clearly a gigantic idiot and it's just a joke that he has a job in baseball.
great find HGM.
As far as Manny goes (now that we've determined McCarver is just a piece of crap), this year doesn't seem a whole lot different than the previous years of "Manny being Manny." And Boston was definitely alright with Manny being Manny when he got them 2 WS titles in 5 years.
Honestly, I think there was a bit of scapegoating going on by the Boston front office to help deflect the fact that the team was losing the division to the lowly Rays.
Agreed... Manny purposely performed poorly to get traded... that's pretty despicable... only thinking about himself and not the team
Read the article I linked to above.Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
Manny DID NOT play poorly. That is PURE fiction. There is no universe in which hitting .347/.473/.587 (Manny's July stats) is poor play.
This is the last time (im just ranting, not singling you out Lastcigar :>) that I want to hear this nonsense about 'Manny got Boston 2 WS titles'.Quote:
Originally Posted by haveacigar
Boston has proven this year, they are quite capable of getting to the playoffs without Manny....and as far as playoff heroes go, they would be ranked:
Schilling
Beckett
Ortiz
Foulke
Lowe
Manny
Roberts
In no way did Manny 'get Boston 2 titles'. And as far 'Mr. 2 errors in a row in game 1's 2004 MVP trophy' goes...they had to give it to someone. Just like 2007's went to Lowell. It just as easily could have gone to Pedroia or Ellsbury and had it gone to a game five certainly would have gone to Beckett if he won.
That is a good article - almost FJM-like. Good post. I don't think you can find the Manny problems in the numbers - whether making nice on a new team, or having a childish fit on his old one, he was an amazing hitter no matter what. And he didn't miss much time - compared to people with actual injuries. His was questionable, that's all.
Aside from all the mentioned 'intangibles' and 'clubhouse presence' and the negativity that made rooting for Manny hard, there was the speaking out against his front office - saying they were jerking him around for not deciding on his option until the end of the year. That came out of nowhere, and that really showed the poor class and despicable behavior.
There are different levels of Manny-ness:
1) bad play in the outfield, making phone calls in LF, avoiding media, using the Wall bathroom - 'manny being manny'
2) sitting out important games when the injury was questionable (or he was later seen frolicking with buddies on the other team); moseying to 1B on ground balls; pushing mid-50's team employees in the clubhouse; fights with teammates on the bench - problem player, negative presence
3) Calling out the ownership in the media for not doing x, y, z regarding your contract in the middle of a season, when your team is busy playing baseball; choosing personal contract issues over the team, the pennant race; being the whiniest guy on the team when your paycheck is among the fattest ever: bordering on despicable
Manny made it tough to root for the Red Sox, and a lot of fans are glad he is gone. McCarver's points about running the bases were groundless, and just an echo of emotions around the league. Disproving his stupid, uninformed remark (a typical McCarver-ism) does not make Manny any better.
I don't disagree with any of that, nor do I think that Boston should've kept Manny. Everything you said is perfectly true.
It's just flat-out wrong to say, though, that Manny played poorly in order to force a trade, or that he sat out and refused to play.
If you actually believe that he skipped games when he could have played - do you honestly think that whining to the media about your contract is worse than that? If you believe that he didn't perform at his best on the field - fine, that is bad. But otherwise - who cares what he says to the media?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alloutwar
For me, and I'm not a Red Sox fan, Manny was the player on the Red Sox that I thought was the most fun to watch just because you never knew what he was going to do.Quote:
Manny made it tough to root for the Red Sox, and a lot of fans are glad he is gone.
I can understand that. If I was watching a Giants game in '07, I'd be waiting for Bonds to come up. I didn't like him, but it's definitely an interesting at-bat to any baseball fan.
If I were a Giants fan, I might not be thrilled he was on my team; but interesting players are, well, interesting.
My sister loved watching Manny, with the wild hair, lackadaisical attitude, goofball antics. It made baseball watchable for her.
My girlfriend hated Manny and couldn't wait for them to get rid of him. She is more serious-minded and less apt to put up with crap from people.
Obviously he's not the only part of the team. Replace "he got them" with "they won" in my post, and I still think it holds true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavelb1
But I think you're being unfair to Manny by putting him below Lowe and Foulke (who weren't even there in 07). 40 playoff hits between 04, 05, and 07. That's some serious playoff production. Of course, it looks like Jason Bay is up to the task, so it's really a win-win situation for everyone involved. Except lying ***** Tim McCarver
there was an intersting article written by Bill Simmons, while I know there's alot of hate toward him, its a very interseting perspective from the Boston fan :
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=manny
So while yes some of what Mccarver said has some truth to it, hes been doing pretty much the same thing for 8 years ...
Yep, great point. I think too many Boston fans (or Manny haters) are forgetting about (or choose to ignore) that stat right there.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
I seem to recall reading an article a couple months ago (don't remember where) that whenever a star player leaves Boston, for whatever reason, it ends up being an ugly departure.
It's certainly happened multiple times...Nomar Garciaparra, Wade Boggs, Manny...Quote:
Originally Posted by beerchaser
Damon and Martinez wern't particularly ugly...they simply decided to take the better offer. *Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
*If I were a GM I'd insist on all players being present with their agents during negotiations. I might even put it in their contracts. They don't have to sy anything. They can sit there and read the bloody paper if they want, but I'd want them there.
**On the other hand look at Schilling. Technically the guy isn't gone yet and a ton of Boston fans have turned on him. And to think Epstein and Henry sold him on Boston by saying if he brought them a ring, he'd be a folk hero forever.
McCarver: "A walk is just as good as a home run" I remember he said that once in a game when Boston was in extra innings and the game was tied. So if Boston hit a HR they would win. McCarver is a retard
I think (think mind you), it was in the 2004 ALCS when the Yankees were threatening in game 6 and the Sox walked someone. He said "A walk is as bad as a home run" (?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Sox Fan 734
Of course I may be remembering something completly different.
I am a Boston fan, and while I appreciate Ramirez' contributions to the two WS wins, I am very glad he's gone. I agree with most of what McCarver said.
I think what he was referring to, about the refusing to play thing, is that Ramirez did claim he had a knee injury, then wasn't even certain which knee it was. He had an MRI done on both knees, and the results were clean...no injury. Ramirez asked to be put on the DL, and the Sox refused. Ramirez was sulking about his contract at this time. He DID refuse to play in two games, claiming his knee(s) hurt. Coincidentally, he sat out games vs Seattle and Felix Hernandez (their best pitcher), and then against the Yankees and hard throwing Joba Chamberlain (their best starter, in his 12 starts). Then, Ramirez was fine, and able to play against lefty Pettitte and the mediocre Ponson. I'm pretty sure that this is what McCarver was talking about.
Manny did, in fact, fail to run out ground balls (even a double play ball, which ESPN has probably shown 3 million times). This is nothing new for him though. Ramirez has been accused of lackadaisical play many times in the past. He knocked the traveling secretary down, when that poor guy couldnt get Ramirez multiple tickets for some game.
I dont know what is wrong with Ramirez. Right now, considering everything, I would much rather have Jason Bay in left field. We all know that Ramirez has been a helluva hitter, but Bay is 6+ years younger than Ramirez, and he's much better in the field, on the bases, and, from what I can tell, in the clubhouse.
Ramirez is still a better overall hitter than Bay, but he will be 37 next year, and Bay can hit a little too.
I agree with McCarver than Manny's conduct is despicable. I wish him the best. I will venture to say, however, that whatever team signs Ramirez to a big contract, will regret it. Just my view.
it wasn't the production that was questioned, it was his potential that was the unknown. The Sox had no idea what they were going to get. Was he going to sit for 6 weeks with a sore knee like he did in '06, or was he just going to cause trouble for the rest of the season but still put up good numbers? Either way, he was affecting the other 24 guys...hurting THEIR production or their possible production. No one knew, so they made a decision....the right one.
Agreed. Manny was, and is, a great hitter. Its everything else he does that is the problem. No doubt Boston coddled him, and probably overlooked too much over the years. On the other hand, Ramirez is the perfect example of an overpaid, spoiled athlete that believes that he does not have to be held to the same standard as everyone else. And, for the most part, as long as he produces, he is correct.
Nobody's disputing the decision to get rid of Manny...just the falsehoods that the media uses to try to justify it, when they should be using the facts that DO justify it (like you and others have pointed out).Quote:
Originally Posted by cartman00000001
if Boston chose to coddle Manny and overlook his behavior as you state, whose fault is that? it seems silly to me to spoil a child then complain when it acts like a spoiled child...Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampdog
Nothing much we can do about that HoustonGM. They all have agendas, like Dan Shaughnessy. He's was so bent on giving Curt Schilling the business...it was unreal.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
I am not a Boston fan, and don't live on the east coast, so I am not sure on this... but, I think I heard or saw a highlight where many took three called strikes from Mo Rivera with his bat resting on his shoulder when Boston said they would look at the option later on.
Maybe he didn't play poorly, but if the above is true, that just as bad..
I remember the weeks of discussions about that incident on WEEI
Wow, McCarver and Buck are morons. They start tonights game off saying how the Dodgers pitchers need to retaliate for wild pitches thrown near Manny. First the Myers one, then one where Cain threw at him. Cain doesn't throw at people intentionally, hes not like that, and they think there should have been retaliation? These guys are such idiots.