Yep, it's because fans still want their entertainment.Quote:
Originally Posted by phightinphils
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Yep, it's because fans still want their entertainment.Quote:
Originally Posted by phightinphils
Why? I can guarantee we are not the same!Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
When did life get so freaking complicated?Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
lol
It's always been. You're just aware of it now, is all.
Around the time TV became the "new god" (both economically & entertainment wise) :pQuote:
Originally Posted by phightinphils
I know. Ignorance is bliss though. Sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
When you have a house and all the other good crap that comes with being a responsible adult, you pick things to argue about. Me, I like to argue about sports.
AND YES, I AM BIASED!
I will admit that right here, right now.
;)
About that, there's nothing wrong with being biased. It's hard to be a fan without some bias.
That being said, it's more reasonable to try to set your bias aside at least somewhat...
acknowledge it, but try not to give into it.
agreed! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
Well then... uh, I'd recommend taking a bit of your own advice.
:p
I know. I re-read my "previous posts". Let's just say my bias really influenced my posts. It is a jagged little pill to swallow. We all have to do it every so often. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
I still think Lohse is a number 4! ;)
lol
I personally have no issues with the amount of money that they make. It's marketing, believe me I am presdient and CEO of Consultative Marketing Group in Cape Girardeau, MO. We outsource marketing for local area businesses and are rather successful. But we do just what Major League Baseball does for our clients, as well what I do daily for my business. See what the value of my service is and market it to the right individuals. There is nothing wrong with playing into supply and demand. A-Rod gets his dollars because he is highly demanded. Lohse got this deal bc the Cardinals demanded his services and wanted to secure their future a little better.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
As far as it being a well above average dollar sign that the players make...well my answer to that is an argument very very few people in the world will agree with me on....It is a high risk business these guys get into. It takes a lot of sacrifice, not only are you playing a sport that requires you to stay in top shape, travel most of your time, and skip your education in college for some, but even if you are one of the few successful individuals that can lock down these huge contracts after being successful in the minor leagues and then again so in the majors you are also forced into early retirement that you are required to live on the rest of your life. It is stated that the average individual needs over 2.5 million dollars in cash assets if they desire to retire at the age of 60, double that if they are married. If you take the rule of 72, (which states that every investment requires a division of 72. Look it up if you need more information on it....) Then players retiring at 35-40 will need a hell of a lot more to retire on and continue their lifestyles. The one's that don't make blockbuster deals, which is very few of them....you'll note the majority doesn't make the league average....the one's that don't make the big deals retire with fairly little and usually need to find different work after baseball...and if you never got the education, or had to work in that sort of environment, starting a career at 40 with a family is incredibly difficult, especially if you plan to live the lifestyle you are used to...40k a year probably won't cut it.
I look at Cal Ripken for inspiration. After he retired he started a business that is currently worth over 30 million dollars...He is a true Iron Horse (no offense Gehrig).
I am just saying, so many people put so much stock into these players and they complain about their salaries without really thinking of what will happen. any 30 year old man should be able to make 41 million dollars until he is 34 and be able to retire on that. If he invests properly...However, it took a lot of very hard work, sacrifice, luck, and the huge rarity that he would make it this far. And if he had had a career ending injury up to this point all that hard work wouldn't matter.
The teams need and have the abilty to fund these contracts, I see no reason why they shouldn't. I pay my executives top dollar, and that is because they earn it with incredibly hard work, sacrifice, and they are damn good. I pay top dollar, but I expect top dollar returns...if I don't get it, then the relationship ends.
And I guess to rant a lil more....
Tom Henke is my cousin. He played about 15 years as a closer for the Rangers, Blue Jays, and Cardinals. Retired with 311 saves.
He retired somewhat young for major league baseball, at 35. He has three children and they currently live where he and my father were born, in Taos, MO. He is a farmer currently because that is what he was raised to do. The money he made over his playing career went back to his family, his son with MS, and the family farm to keep it a float and continue to buy land so he could farm again when he retired. He has to pay his own separate insurance, which is a major hassle bc of the constant issues with his son's health, and he has no gaurentees. He actually never really got into baseball he has told me. He played high school baseketball, he was tall...and the baseball coach asked him to try out and pitch...he threw very hard...but didn't think anything of it. Was successful and eventually drafted by the Mariners, and then the Rangers....He played three or four years of minor league ball, which was difficult bc he was expected to run the family farm and take care of his family that he had already started, but he was blessed w a hard throwing slider, heat, and a solid breaking pitch which he worked hard to craft. He wasn't making much and almost called it quits many times. But he found success and overall made around 17 mil throughout 15 years. Enough to live on, but he still has to be very very careful and it was very very difficult. He told me he wouldn't do it if he had to do it over again cause it wasn't worth the stress.
I'm just saying, it's easy to overlook how difficult it is and how much the sacrifice is for people that this is their dream, let's not beat up on them when they are rewarded for being successful and can relax and play the game that we dearly love.
I think there needs to be a cap on how much of a bonus draft picks can get and how large their contracts can be when being drafted...I think that is being a little ridiculous.
Well said.
I could nitpick a couple of points above, but since I want to support your point, I won't...
lol
Gracias, I actually reread it and turns out I have a few things I would have said differently, but you get my point. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
And nitpick away, I love this forum, it's a great way for me to vent when I am stressed out :)
Well, maybe... but, again, the reason that the draftees are getting such huge bonuses is due to the fact that they have (or are seen to have) a rare talent. If team's don't compete for those players with cash, what should they compete for them with?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffy25
It's an extremely small percentage of draftees that receive the huge bonuses that they do, too. What you're talking here about isn't exactly widespread.
And I wouldn't complain if there were salary caps on players....but that is a whole different arguement, I guess I could state why I believe in that, but I don't have the time tonight haha
Same hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Jeffy25
:)
The main thing is that I don't think anyone should be expected to be able to fully retire at 30, or even 40. I mean, I completely understand the point that you're making about the sacrifices and luck required to make it to the brass rung in professional sports, but... well, you need to take care of yourself and be realistic in your expectations when you do make it, as well.
If the players union (unions, actually. This really goes beyond just baseball) actually cared about anything other than players salaries and therefore their own bottom line, you'd think that they would themselves provide and get the league(s) to provide some sort of financial advice and counseling for them. That and some sort of education incentive or something (hell, that would be easy to do in baseball, it being a summer sport!).
You are right, but of courseQuote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
I could go for a salary cap as a good idea, but I think that they should then remove Arbitration as well and therefore institute an actually complete free agency system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffy25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
Did you hear about Albert Pujol's new plans? He is going to have 12 mil of his 16 mil a year contract, through 2011 be deferred and paid in installments to himself from 2020 through 2029 so the team can spend more money each offseason so the team can win while he is on the field rather then spending more in the 20's. He is going to be getting a huge interest bonus from this, he is helping his numbers (hopefully) by helping the team get better player(s) and making sure that after he retires that while in his 40's he'll be getting big ass paychecks still. Basically he said making 4 mil a year is enough for his foundation, he and his kids each year until this contract ends, and will be fine throughout his 40's and so on. I think it's a great and rather selfless act by him. And really takes care of he and his family. I love it!
Granted, this hasn't been approved yet, it might be this offseason...but I degressQuote:
Originally Posted by Jeffy25
Now we are talking!Quote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
Wow, I hadn't heard about that. Good thinking Albert!
Hopefully more players will follow his example.
And yet there seems to be this sentiment around here by some that Albert Pujols is a greedy *******. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffy25
Of course being a cards fan...I think, hey great for the team until 11', but what is gonna happen in the 20's? and will the league approve?Quote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
It's kind of cool...It's actually set up the way I do life insurance plans on employee's I want to keep and pay well, but don't want to give them a huge salary until they have been with me a few years. It's called a deferred life insurance plan. The way it works is...I pay associate A his 50k a year salary, I put another 15k a year into a life insurance policy that earns interest each year. If the employee stays with me after five years, while I have been putting that 15k a year each year into that account, the associate gets that as a big bonus, that I don't have to pay anymore into. If the associate leaves me before the 5 years and let's say in 20 years he drops dead...then I get that insurance policy paid back to my company! After those five years though, and he has stayed with me....then he is looking at a 75k bonus, and that doesn't include the interest which makes that around 100 grand! I'd say I showed a value to stay with me....I don't know why the union doesn't argue for something like this, teams would benefit from doing something like this...It's perfectlly legal...in fact my Northwestern Mutal guy is the one who taught me how to do it....now I keep the employees I want to keep and can pay them top dollar and reward them for staying with me!
I'd have to say with all that he gives, He is far from it...St. Louis is a much better community from the work that Albert does...that's why he is always up for the award each year...I believe it's a lil thing called the Roberto Clemente award! Which has already one once!Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
I think that people just get caught up in the numbers. To us "regular people", seeing $X million is just beyond our experience, and after seeing that sort of number it seems that a lot of people just can't think of the rational reasons why their paid that much.
If you do stop to think about it though, it's not that much money. The deal that this thread is about, where Lhose is getting $11 million per year on average, works out to a little over $211,000 a week. That is a lot of money, but it's only for 4 years... I mean, I can earn around $20-$25 an hour doing what I do, but I can do my job for 40-50 years, vs the ~15 years that a superstar athlete has. Figure 40 years at $20/hour, 40 hours a week, = $1,664,000. I'm skilled at what I do, but realistically I don't have a skill as special and rare as being a professional athlete. There's also no network television running around interested in electronic systems repair. lol
Again though, this takes me right back to my original statement. If it bothers you that athletic skill is worth so much money, the only solution is for you the fan to loose interest in being a fan. The reason that the owners can make so much money is our collective interest. The reason that the players are paid so much is because the owners make so much.
I hadn't heard about that new deal with Pujols. I will be VERY interested to see if that gets league approval.
It's not really a new deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctic Blast
It was the deal he signed back in 2004.
I actually think Jeffy might be misinterpreting it unless they changed it...It says:$12 million in ALL deferred, not $12 million per year.Quote:
$12M ($3M/year, 2007-10) deferred without interest, to be paid in 10 installments of $1.2M from 2020 to 2029, reducing present-day value at signing to $90,276,957
Well said, well let's look at the numbers. Let's say you make 25 an hour. and you will make those dollars until you retire at the age of 65, I don't know your age, so I'll just guess 30 for the sake of argument. So we are saying you will never get a pay increase, and inflation will never happen for the next 35 years. Basically you are making 50k a year (a lil more) but that number is close enough and easier to use....That equals 1.75 million. now if you compare that to 41 million we are very very far off. But bc of things like inflation...and we look at what someone making 25 an hour today would have been making in 1973....you can compound that 1.75 and make it a hefty number! not 41 mil, but your job is much more secure, it is much easier to continue work until you are older, and you can still have a family that you spend your quality time with. his 41 million will only deprciate unless he does something with it...which I assume he would. I am not trying to say you will make what Lohse is going to make, but like you said. His skill is rare...and maybe we should start that tv program and just make your demand that much greater ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
and just to beat up on it a lil more, if you put any of that 50 k a year into factoring the rule of 72, you retire with a shiton more...plus you likely had benefits the whole time...and I am degressing once again! argh!
I am wasn't misinterpretting. Albert approached the team with his two agents to make the deferred amount much larger and to make a change in the contract, the team, and the league would have to approve...Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Interesting. Have a link to the story or anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffy25
I was looking on the cards website and couldn't find anything. Ricky Hornton of fsn Midwest (a cards announcer mentioned it). So There may be no truth to it, the team may just not be releasing any information about it, I am not really sure....and I don't want to be the guy crying wolf on here, starting a rumor and not be true....but Hornton heard a Who and mentioned it. So we'll see. Either way St. Louis is lucky to have a player like AlbertQuote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
If you see anything please let me know...I would be very interested in reading more
Will do.
still unhappy about this deal, i know why they did it, but i would have loved one less year, and 10 mil less.
Well, it's the "going rate" for a pitcher of his quality now. Get used to it.