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He's gonna be the Carlos Silva of next year.
Cool story bro.
I doubt it. He's a better pitcher.Quote:
Originally Posted by asianinvasion
I think he'll be worth it for at least the first two years of the deal, but I'm skeptical beyond that.
That's $3.15 mil for every point above 100 his ERA+ was this season. I'm not sure this is anything that could be mistaken for a good deal.
A career 1.41 WHIP and a career ERA above league average. The only argument I could see for this deal is, he never gets injured.
Now, based on this deal, how much do you suppose CC, Sheets and Derek Lowe are gonna get?
~10 mil per year is the going rate for a league-average innings eater.Quote:
Originally Posted by justanewguy
C.C.'s going to get something in the vicinity of Johan Santana's deal, likely surpassing it. ~$150 million for 5-7 years.Quote:
Now, based on this deal, how much do you suppose CC, Sheets and Derek Lowe are gonna get?
Teams will probably be wary with Sheets because of his injury history, but I could see him getting 4-5 years at $15-18 mil per. Lowe will likely get a similar deal.
This is why Billy Beane was right to trade away Harden and Blanton. If Lohse is getting this much, they will get even MORE.
Billy Beane is the best at what he does! I am a huge cards fan, don't miss a game, and tivo the one's I would miss. Lohse isn't worth this much to me but the organization is trying to send a message and wrap up issues going into 09. They are also basically saying they won't be pursuing Looper, which I am fine with that but I am a believer that he won't earn this pay. But a consistent innings eater pitcher is worth a lot to a lot of teams. Also, he is a Boras agent and this will help negotions with Ankiel this offseason. I have enjoyed watching Lohse pitch but he was a surprise this year and I wonder if he can continue to repeat his delivery and he's command the way he did going into the future. Wait and see attitude, but I don't know if it is what I would have done.
Stupid deal...but that's what a lot of people said about the Gil Meche contract a couple years ago..and that's been amazing so far.
It is a roll of the dice. Either he's another Gil Meche, or he's another Carlos Silva. We'll know soon enough.
If you were going to pay Lohse 10 million a season, might it have made sense to add 6 million a year or so and possibly be in the Lowe/Burnett/Sheets(?) sweepstakes?
Man, I would avoid Burnett like a plague. Every injury he's had has been to his throwing arm. And I find it suspect that, the year he can opt out and go for one more big free agent score is the year he FINALLY pitches through the pain, and doesn't miss an extra 6-8 starts when his elbow tightens up, which has been his MO every previous year in Toronto. I almost guarantee he's back to the same ol' AJ after he cashes in again.
Yes & No - that is your assessment of what it would take to get those 3 plus they already have 2 major health risks - Lowe/Sheets & Burnett may be more $ than what they are going to pay Lohse.The market has been constantly growing & their prices may be closer to 18/20 million depending on activity (Yankees/Sox/Mets) & needs (replacement of lost FAs/retirements etc)Quote:
Originally Posted by defense
Lohse is a safe(if one exists with a pitcher) bet to get 200 IPs & league average ERA & 10+ wins a season & St Louis really NEED that type of pitcher due to Carpenter & Mulder's health issues.If those 2 come back strong Lohse becomes #4 & maybe the best #4 in the NL.Also don't forget the Cardinals have other holes to fill (like Bullpen...SS....2B)
That's exactly what I was thinking of when I read about them signing Lohse. Pitchers don't come cheap anymore. I would rather have him at this price over four years than have Ben Sheets or A.J. Burnett for the contracts they're going to get over 5+ years. Granted, they're probably better than Lohse when they're "on", but spending that much money for pitchers that will spend part of the season on the disabled list isn't that productive. A good signing by the Cardinals, as long as they wouldn't be counting on him to be their ace.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
why beyond the two years Lohse isn't that old...Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Lohse had a good year and it happened to be a contract year. He will now be mediocre until year 4 of his new contract.
He stinks.
Um either he will be mediocre or he stinks - he cant be both....& look at his career compared to your teams' super 8 million dollar man or even your supposed #2 (who will be earning 12 million next year btw!)Quote:
Originally Posted by phightinphils
Sure he can. He does stink. He is a good #4 pitcher, not much above that.Quote:
Originally Posted by FRENCHREDSOX
I might add that he recieved poor run support this season, the worst of any cardinal pitcher and still managed to go 15-6. The cards are also, in a way, paying him back for what he did this year. The ownership does that, they take care of who takes care of them. He was be rewarded....now let's see if he takes advantage of a great opportunity, or if simply takes advantage of the team.
I believe the way things are going you almost have to pay that much for a consistent 200 innings pitcher...and he definetly should have been in this year's all star game. he was 11-1 at the time of the game
So, he ended up below .500 in the "crunch time"? I still see him as mediocre. To be considered "solid" to me, you need to perform down the strech. He hasn't. He didn't do it when he was in Philly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffy25
After the all star game, only once did the cards score more then 3 runs for him. most of the time they didn't manage a run until he was out of the game.
I overall see this as a good signing for the cardinals going into this offseason for many many reasons...I do believe it's a lil pricy, but I agree with it
I just wouldn't bank on him holding up for that long. Most pitchers don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wassit3
That doesn't stink. A good amount of teams would kill for a solid league-average innings eater to plunk down in the middle of their rotation.Quote:
Originally Posted by phightinphils
A mediocre starting pitcher is a solid pitcher.Quote:
Originally Posted by phightinphils
I don't know. Call me cheap, but paying that much for a #4 guy is way too much! I'll check out them farm team first.
It's not way too much once you look at what similar pitchers are getting. He's getting exactly what he deserves, based on the market value for a league-average innings eater.Quote:
Originally Posted by phightinphils
At this rate GM's are shelling out $, there will be another lockout.
Highly, highly, HIGHLY unlikely.
They're ABLE to shell out this money AND STILL post record profits, because baseball is rolling in revenue.
Well, maybe they can give some money to the $700B bailout!
To anyone that has a serious problem with baseball or baseball players making the money that they do, there's a very easy solution: Stop. Stop watching games. Stop reading baseball stories. Stop going to MLB websites.
Their all making the money that they do because you keep giving them your attention. That attention is worth a ton of money.
So because I have a problem with them making money, I should stop watching games? I enjoy baseball. I also have an opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
They make so much money BECAUSE so many fans watch their games.Quote:
Originally Posted by phightinphils
You really have no right to care about how much money they make if you are part of the reason why they make so much money.
If you care about them making so much money, don't watch baseball because YOU being a fan is WHY players make so much.
Exactly.
I watch the games on the televsion. I can't physically GO to the games because the tickets and everything else is so freaking expensive. That is because of the players salaries!
No, it's not. It's because the demand for games is high, so owners can charge more.Quote:
Originally Posted by phightinphils
The player salaries are high because baseball is rolling revenue, and they get their fair share of it. If the player salaries were lower, and everything else was equal, all that would mean would be that the money is in the pockets of the owners instead.
Higher demand = higher ticket prices = more revenue = players get more money. It doesn't work the other way.
Ah, but somewhat like what you were saying, if people stopped GOING to the games, there would be : less demand = lower ticket prices = less revenue = players get less money.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Yes. And? That's exactly what we've said. Don't support the game, and the players will get less money.Quote:
Originally Posted by phightinphils
The reason the players get so much money is because baseball is in such high demand among consumers. Them getting so much money isn't why ticket prices are so high. It's the other way around. The only way for fans to lower the salaries of players is to NOT support the game.
You think backwards, PhilliesGuy234
Right... which brings us right back to what I said, above.
BTW: the networks pay MLB and the owners a hell of a lot more then they make through ticket sales. MLBAM is making them a fortune now, as well.
PhightingPhils, I am officially going to call you PhilliesGuy234 from now on
I know, I know, it is a double edged sword.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
I just see people struggling to decide wether to buy a gallon of gas, a gallon of milk or a loaf of bread. And the professional sports salaries are just astronomical.
That is okay, I'll sit in my chair and watch the games with my beer and pretzels. I don't have to worry about traffic going home! :o