No, he had a very good to great season, saves or no saves. You are being ignorant if you deny that.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
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No, he had a very good to great season, saves or no saves. You are being ignorant if you deny that.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
His season was great, but overvalued because of his saves. In Expected Wins Above Replacement (WXRL), K-Rod was second in the AL to Mariano Rivera. That stat accounts for leverage of the situation. Brad Lidge was first in the majors.
But RSR is saying he's like 5th (or worse) in the AL... which is just, not true, by any standards.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
If you don't account for leverage, and look purely at performance stats like ERA/ERA+, K/9, BB/9, and WHIP, there were 4 or 5 better closers in the AL - Rivera, Nathan, Papelbon, Soria. Also guys like Brad Ziegler.Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
Here's the top 10 AL relievers by WXRL:
Code:Mariano Rivera 6.251
Francisco Rodriguez 5.660
Joakim Soria 5.453
Joe Nathan 5.000
J.P. Howell 4.637
Brad Ziegler 4.478
Bobby Jenks 4.242
Scott Downs 3.797
Ron Mahay 3.604
Grant Balfour 3.423
Told you so!
If you account for leverage, he was second in the league to just Mariano Rivera.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
Why is HGM like the emperor of stats? If he says it is so, then it is so? No...Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
Francisco Rodriguez had a legendary season this year and you are a fool to deny it...
People will say it is legendary, but he walked to many, his k/9 were down, he was more hittable, and was below his usual self.Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
Note that I didn't say it was so. I said Francisco Rodriguez had a great season, because he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
Now legendary might be a bit of an exaggeration.Quote:
Francisco Rodriguez had a legendary season this year and you are a fool to deny it...
HGM I have to send you my votes in 2 PMs because they it is too long.
Here are my votes:
AL MVP:
1). Joe Mauer
2). Alex Rodriguez
3). Carlos Quentin
4). Josh Hamilton
5). Milton Bradley
6). Kevin Youkilis
7). Justin Morneau
8). Carlos Peņa
9). Dustin Pedroia
10). Nick Markakis
NL MVP:
1). Albert Pujols
2). Chipper Jones
3). Lance Berkman
4). Ryan Howard
5). Matt Holliday
6). Hanley Ramirez
7). David Wright
8). Chase Utley
9). C.C Sabathia
10). Adam Dunn
AL Cy Young:
1). Cliff Lee
2). Roy Halladay
3). Daisuke Matsuzaka
NL CY Young:
1). Tim Lincecum
2). Johan Santana
3). Ryan Dempster
AL Rookie Of The Year:
1). Evan Longoria
2). Jacoby Ellsbury
3). Alexi Ramirez
NL Rookie Of The Year:
1). Joey Votto
2). Geovany Soto
3). Armando Galarraga
AL Relief Pitcher Of The Year:
1). Francisco Rodriguez
2). Joakim Soria
3). Joe Nathan
NL Relief Pitcher Of The Year:
1). Brad Lidge
2). Brian Wilson
3). Brian Fuentes
AL Gold Gloves:
P:
1). Kenny Rogers
2). Roy Halladay
3). Mark Buehrle
C:
1). Kurt Suzuki
2). Joe Mauer
3). Dioner Navarro
1B:
1). Carlos Peņa
2). Kevin Youkilis
3). Ryan Garko
2B:
1). Dustin Pedroia
2). Mark Ellis
3). Placido Polanco
3B:
1). Mike Lowell
2). Alex Rodriguez
3). Jack Hannahan
SS:
1). Michael Young
2). Derek Jeter
3). Jhonny Peralta
OF:
1). Torii Hunter
2). Jermaine Dye
3). Grady Sizemore
4). Bobby Abreu
5). Adam Jones
6). Coco Crisp
7). Nick Markakis
8). Curtis Granderson
9). Melky Cabrera
NL Gold Gloves:
P:
1). Brandon Webb
2). Aaron Cook
3). Greg Maddux
C:
1). Chris Snyder
2). Chris Iannetta
3). Bengie Molina
1B:
1). Lance Berkman
2). Albert Pujols
3). Adrian Gonzalez
2B:
1). Brandon Phillips
2). Freddy Sanchez
3). Jeff Kent
3B:
1). Troy Glaus
2). Kevin Kouzmanoff
3). Pedro Feliz
SS:
1). Jimmy Rollins
2). Miguel Tejada
3). Cesar Izturis
OF:
1). Andre Either
2). Ryan Braun
3). Carlos Lee
4). Nate McClouth
5). Mike Cameron
6). Hunter Pence
7). Pat Burrell
8). Shane Victorino
9). Ryan Ludwick
AL Silver Sluggers:
DH:
1). Milton Bradley
2). Aubrey Huff
3). Jim Thome
C:
1). Joe Mauer
2). Kurt Suzuki
3). A.J. Pierzynski
1B:
1). Kevin Youkilis
2). Carlos Peņa
3). Justin Morneau
2B:
1). Dustin Pedroia
2). Brian Roberts
3). Ian Kinsler
3B:
1). Alex Rodriguez
2). Chone Figgins
3). Evan Longoria
SS:
1). Derek Jeter
2). Michael Young
3). Marco Scutaro
OF:
1). Nick Markakis
2). Carlos Quentin
3). Josh Hamilton
4). Vladimir Guerrero
5). Jermaine Dye
6). Grady Sizemore
7). Magglio Ordoņez
8). Curtis Granderson
9). Bobby Abreu
NL Silver Sluggers:
P:
1). Carlos Zambrano
2). C.C. Sabathia
3). Adam Wainwright
C:
1). Brian McCann
2). Geovany Soto
3). Russell Martin
1B:
1). Albert Pujols
2). Lance Berkman
3). Ryan Howard
2B:
1). Chase Utley
2). Mark DeRosa
3). Dan Uggla
3B:
1). Chipper Jones
2). David Wright
3). Aramis Ramirez
SS:
1). Hanley Ramirez
2). Stephen Drew
3). Jose Reyes
OF:
1). Ryan Ludwick
2). Matt Holliday
3). Ryan Braun
4). Adam Dunn
5). Andre Either
6). Brad Hawpe
7). Alfonso Soriano
8). Carlos Beltran
9). Pat Burrell
AL Comeback Player Of The Year:
1). Cliff Lee
2). Milton Bradley
3). Aubrey Huff
NL Comeback Player Of The Year:
1). Kerry Wood
2). Brad Lidge
3). Ryan Ludwick
AL Manager Of The Year:
1). Joe Madden
2). Ozzie Guillen
3). Ron Gardenhire
NL Manager Of The Year:
1). Ned Yost
2). Tony LaRussa
3). Cecil Cooper
No Votes for GM of the Year
**This took me over an hour to do LOL**
Rockiesfan, what were Wood and Lidge coming back from? They were good last year. And Ludwick has nothing to come back from. And why A-Rod 2nd in MVP?
Lidge, no idea, but he did win the real life Comeback Player of the Year award.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
Wood played in 22 games last year. 2008 was his first full season since 2003.
Lidge won the comeback this year?
YesQuote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
They just announced it today. Cliff Lee and Brad Lidge. See this thread.
Idiotic sports writers
It's not the writers:Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
A committee made up of representatives of MLB and the editorial staff of its official website, MLB.com, shortlists six players in each league. The winner in each league is selected from the shortlist by an online poll of fans through MLB.com.
There was an online poll?
Actually, that's what Wikipedia says...
But I just checked the MLB.com article on it, and the voting total has A LOT more than 6 players in each league.
Ah. Yep. MLB.com beat reporters do the voting, 1 voter from each team. Let's move this discussion to the other thread, though.
I told you so! Reporters/writers, same difference. And either way, they are retarded when it comes to the sport they coverQuote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Yeah, and Lidge was a terrible selection, IMO. He was solid last year...Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Nate McClouth, Ryan Ludwick, Carlos Delgado, Kerry Wood, etc... all woulda been better selections.
What were McClouth and Ludwick coming back from exactly? Why does no one notice THAT THEY HAVE NEVER DONE WELL IN OR EVEN PLAYED A GOOD FULL SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by koolzach1
McLouth and Ludwick "emerged", to me, not "came back." I think you have to have at least one prior full season, and then an off-season/injury-season, before being able to really be considered for the comeback award.Quote:
Originally Posted by koolzach1
Iunno...
I look at it was them coming back from subpar seasons. What the F did Lidge come back from?
Lucwick got votes however, a lot. So obviously notQuote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Technically, any player is eligible for the award. I just wouldn't vote for those types of players.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
Same here. It is so amazing how uneducated the people are that make their living writing about baseball.....Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Well, "coming back" implies that they had a previous level that they're returning too. Ludwick and McLouth were minor leaguers/subpar major leaguers, and now broke out.Quote:
Originally Posted by koolzach1
Yeah, no idea with that one.Quote:
What the F did Lidge come back from?
I'm guessing it has to do with the further "glorification" of the closer role. Brad Lidge lost his closer role last year, and then "came back to it" in a big way this year.
Ridiculous.
Now that the regular season is officially wrapped up:
AL MVP
1) Alex Rodriguez
2) Carlos Quentin
3) Cliff Lee
4) Josh Hamilton
5) Grady Sizemore
6) Joe Mauer
7) Justin Morneau
8) Dustin Pedroia
9) Kevin Youkilis
10) Roy Halladay
NL MVP
1) Albert Pujols
2) Lance Berkman
3) David Wright
4) Chipper Jones
5) Manny Ramirez
6) Chase Utley
7) Hanley Ramirez
8) Tim Lincecum
9) Johan Santana
10) Matt Holliday
AL Cy Young
1) Cliff Lee
2) Roy Halladay
3) Mariano Rivera
NL Cy Young
1) Tim Lincecum
2) Johan Santana
3) Derek Lowe
AL Rookie of the Year
1) Evan Longoria
2) Alexei Ramirez
3) Joba Chamberlain
NL Rookie of the Year
1) Geovany Soto
2) Joey Votto
3) Hiroki Kuroda
AL Relief Pitcher of the Year
1) Mariano Rivera
2) Francisco Rodriguez
3) Joe Nathan
NL Relief Pitcher of the Year
1) Brad Lidge
2) Hong-Chih Kuo
3) Carlos Marmol
AL Gold Glove
P) Kenny Rogers, Mark Buehrle, Jesse Litsch
C) Jose Molina, Joe Mauer, Dioner Navarro
1B) Lyle Overbay, Kevin Youkilis, Justin Morneau
2B) Placido Polanco, Akinori Iwamura, Dustin Pedroia
3B) Adrian Beltre, Mike Lowell, Jack Hannahan
SS) Orlando Cabrera, Michael Young, Jhonny Peralta
OF) Carlos Gomez, Adam Jones, Torii Hunter, Carl Crawford, BJ Upton, Ichiro Suzuki, Grady Sizemore, Nick Markakis, Curtis Granderson
NL Gold Glove
P) Greg Maddux, Roy Oswalt, Aaron Cook
C) Jason Kendall, Bengie Molina, Chris Snyder
1B) Albert Pujols, Lance Berkman, Adrian Gonzalez
2B) Freddy Sanchez, Orlando Hudson, Chase Utley
3B) Kevin Kouzmanoff, Pedro Feliz, Troy Glauss
SS) Jimmy Rollins, Jose Reyes, Cesar Izturis
OF) Aaron Rowand, Hunter Pence, Jim Edmonds, Mike Cameron, Kosuke Fukudome, Carlos Beltran, Matt Holliday, Matt Kemp, Jeff Francoeur
AL Silver Slugger
DH) Aubrey Huff, Milton Bradley, David Ortiz
C) Joe Mauer, AJ Pierzynski, Kelly Shoppach
1B) Justin Morneau, Kevin Youkilis, Miguel Cabrera
2B) Dustin Pedroia, Ian Kinsler, Brian Roberts
3B) Alex Rodriguez, Melvin Mora, Evan Longoria
SS) Jhonny Peralta, Michael Young, Derek Jeter
OF) Carlos Quentin, Josh Hamilton, Grady Sizemore, Nick Markakis, Jermaine Dye, Vladimir Guerrero, Raul Ibanez, Bobby Abreu, Magglio Ordonez, Ichiro Suzuki
NL Silver Slugger
P) Carlos Zambrano, Micah Owings, Brandon Backe
C) Brian McCann, Geovany Soto, Russell Martin
1B) Albert Pujols, Lance Berkman, Ryan Howard
2B) Chase Utley, Dan Uggla, Mark DeRosa
3B) David Wright, Chipper Jones, Aramis Ramirez
SS) Hanley Ramirez, Jose Reyes, Stephen Drew
OF) Matt Holliday, Ryan Ludwick, Manny Ramirez, Carlos Beltran, Ryan Braun, Adan Dunn, Nate McLouth, Andre Ethier, Matt Kemp, Pat Burrell
AL Comeback Player of the Year
1) Cliff Lee
2) Mike Mussina
3) Aubrey Huff
NL Comeback Player of the Year
1) Jorge Cantu
2) Fernando Tatis
3) Ryan Dempster
AL Manager of the Year
1) Joe Maddon
2) Ozzie Guillen
3) Mike Scioscia
NL Manager of the Year
1) Lou Piniella
2) Joe Torre
3) Charlie Manuel
AL GM of the Year
1) Andrew Friedman
2) Theo Epstein
3) Jon Daniels
NL GM of the Year
1) Ned Colletti
2) Michael Hill
3) Jim Hendry
I've changed my MVP and AL ROTY ballots:
AL MVP:
Cliff Lee
Roy Halladay
Grady Sizemore
Joe Mauer
Dustin Pedroia
Alex Rodriguez
Kevin Youkilis
Josh Hamilton
Justin Morneau
Brian Roberts
NL MVP:
Albert Pujols
Hanley Ramirez
Lance Berkman
David Wright
Chipper Jones
Carlos Beltran
Tim Lincecum
Johan Santana
Matt Holliday
Manny Ramirez
AL ROTY:
Evan Longoria
Mike Aviles
Joba Chamberlain
Alexei Ramirez got snubbed!!Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
I was very, very much torn over the AL MVP and wanted so badly to put Cliff Lee at the top... I looked at his stats for 10 minutes tonight before submitting my ballot... but I just couldn't. As great a season as he had... it wasn't QUITE MVP-worthy for a pitcher. Very close, but I just couldn't do it...
I can't look past his OBPQuote:
Originally Posted by justanewguy
The reason I decided to put Lee and Halladay 1-2 isn't because their seasons are particularly MVP-worthy for a pitcher, but because no position player really stands out. it's really close.Quote:
I was very, very much torn over the AL MVP and wanted so badly to put Cliff Lee at the top... I looked at his stats for 10 minutes tonight before submitting my ballot... but I just couldn't. As great a season as he had... it wasn't QUITE MVP-worthy for a pitcher. Very close, but I just couldn't do it...
He's a free swinger... but he did draw a walk in a crucial situation tonight, and showed impressive eye. Those 21 HRs and 4 GSs are downright impressive... especially from a guy who can play 2B, SS and CF, all quite well.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Nobody stands out at all. I think you could pick from 15 or so AL players and put them in ANY order from 1 to 10 and not have a ridiculous looking list. Even Cabrera and Huff look like top-5 candidates (though I had neither in my top 10). But Lee just wasn't dominating enough, in my opinion, to overcome Rodriguez (still baseball's best overall player, in a tie with Pujols) or Quentin (not only valuable, but priceless, in my opinion, to his team, even in shortened time).Quote:
The reason I decided to put Lee and Halladay 1-2 isn't because their seasons are particularly MVP-worthy for a pitcher, but because no position player really stands out. it's really close.
That category took me almost as long as the rest of my ballot combined.
I know what you mean. I'm still working on my picks, and I've lost track of the number of times I've gone back to 'just change one more thing' with my damn MVP lists. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by justanewguy
Okay, picks sent to HGM, here we go.
MVP
American League
1. Dustin Pedroia
2. Joe Mauer
3. Cliff Lee
4. Kevin Youkilis
5. Josh Hamilton
6. Roy Halladay
7. Justin Morneau
8. Carlos Quentin
9. Alex Rodriguez
10. Grady Sizemore
National League
1. Albert Pujols
2. Hanley Ramirez
3. David Wright
4. Chase Utley
5. Lance Berkman
6. Ryan Braun
7. Adrian Gonzalez
8. Matt Holliday
9. Ryan Ludwick
10. Ryan Howard
Cy Young
AL
1. Cliff Lee
2. Roy Halladay
3. Mariano Rivera
NL
1. Tim Lincecum
2. Brandon Webb
3. Johan Santana
Top Reliever
AL
1. Mariano Rivera
2. Francisco Rodriguez
3. Joe Nathan
NL
1. Brad Lidge
2. Kerry Wood
3. Jose Valverde
Rookie of the Year
AL
1. Evan Longoria
2. Jacoby Ellsbury
3. Armando Galarraga
NL
1. Joey Votto
2. Geovany Soto
3. Jair Jurrjens
Comeback Player
AL
1. Cliff Lee
2. Mike Mussina
3. Eric Hinske
NL
1. Jorge Cantu
2. Jody Gerut
3. Clint Barmes
Manager of the Year
AL
1. Joe Maddon
2. Ron Gardenhire
3. Ozzie Guillen
NL
1. Charlie Manuel
2. Fredi Gonzalez
3. Tony LaRussa
You ranked K-Rod too High!
Okay, I'm getting sick of your K-Rod hate. K-Rod had a great season, and like it or not, he set the record for saving close games and making sure they don't end in losses for his team.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
RSR: This is your cue for the typical "But Savessssss are a flawed stat and they are bad 4 ur team so neverrrr everrrrr get annyyyyy saves EVER NEVER EVER THEY MAKE U A BAD PICHER!!!! they make me wanana cryy1!!!!!"
:D
No, he was great, but he was not as great as you think he is.Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
But, as HGM said, he can easily be argued to be the 2nd best RP in the AL this season (IMO he was the best)Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
The 2nd best in one stat! The person you are quoting also said Jose Arrencido was better :D. And in my opinion, K-Rod is behind AT LEAST Papelbon, Rivera, Nathan, and SoriaQuote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234