Red Sox to retire Pesky's number

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09-23-2008, 08:44 PM
RedsoxRockies

Re: Red Sox to retire Pesky's number

Quote:

Originally Posted by justanewguy

Out of the active players at or closing in on retirement, Pedro is right up there at the top in terms of HOF worthiness. Doing my best not to forget anyone, I'd rank it something like this:

1. Barry Bonds
2. Greg Maddux
3. Frank Thomas
4. TIE - Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez
6. Ken Griffey Jr.
7. Mike Piazza
8. Tom Glavine
9. Mariano Rivera
10. Jeff Kent
11. Sammy Sosa
12. Ivan Rodriguez
13. Trevor Hoffman
14. Gary Sheffield
15. Jim Thome

Roughly... point is, Pedro is easily one of the most deserving players of this generation (with some incredible players above and around him). Everyone I listed from 1 to 12 is a lock, and only an idiot would deny them.

Kent and Hoffman over Thome? WHy? He has been one of the ERA's greatest. And Manny should be on that list, and if you are including Bonds and Sosa, Clemens should be there
09-23-2008, 08:49 PM
justanewguy

Re: Red Sox to retire Pesky's number

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies

Kent and Hoffman over Thome? WHy? He has been one of the ERA's greatest. And Manny should be on that list, and if you are including Bonds and Sosa, Clemens should be there

I knew I'd forgotten someone. Thanks. I'm correcting the list now.

Manny is not nearing retirement age. He's still got 5 years left, at least.
09-23-2008, 08:56 PM
justanewguy

Re: Red Sox to retire Pesky's number

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

I'd say a lock, if you're not considering steroid allegations. We really have no idea how voters are gonna deal with Bonds or Sosa...They might give them both the McGwire treatment.

And while I think Jeff Kent is deserving of the HOF, I wouldn't call him a lock.

I think he's a lock because of what he did at the position. I'd eat my Dodgers cap if he gets denied. I don't even like him, I just can't imagine he gets left out of the HOF with all those gaudy 2B numbers.

My list ignores steroids completely. I think Sosa is more likely to get left off than Bonds is. I could see the writers not voting for Bonds the first time to "send a message," but his "pre-steroids" play was so great that he can't really be ignored.

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsguy234

Ken Griffey Jr. below Pedro is just crazy talk, he should be Numero Uno on that list.

Rivera shouldn't be above any of the guys that he's above (except maybe I-Rod)

Rivera is the greatest closer ever, whether or not you agree with it. Sorry.

Pedro was the greatest pitcher in the majors during his peak. He helped "break the curse." Griffey is very, very close.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies

Kent and Hoffman over Thome? WHy? He has been one of the ERA's greatest. And Manny should be on that list, and if you are including Bonds and Sosa, Clemens should be there

Because Kent was by FAR the best 2B of his time. Hoffman has the saves record (as much as we say it's not worth something, it can add up to meaning something over time). Besides, Hoffman's numbers are disgustingly good, and he was the second best reliever of his time, suffering from playing at the same time as the greatest EVER (Rivera).

Thome was never really that fantastic compared to his peers... but he racked up some very good career numbers, and was a top-notch player. I'd put every player I listed in the HOF if I could vote.

Keep in mind, there are a TON of excellent players still active that will be getting into the Hall of Fame. Thome being low on THAT list doesn't really speak against him.
09-23-2008, 09:08 PM
metsguy234

Re: Red Sox to retire Pesky's number

Quote:

Originally Posted by justanewguy

Rivera is the greatest closer ever, whether or not you agree with it. Sorry.

Pedro was the greatest pitcher in the majors during his peak. He helped "break the curse." Griffey is very, very close.

No, Trevor Hoffman is the greatest closer of all time. But thanks for playing the Who the Hell is the Greatest Closer of all Time? Game! :D
09-23-2008, 09:09 PM
RedsoxRockies

Re: Red Sox to retire Pesky's number

Thome was one of the best hitters of any era really. An extremely good hitter.
09-23-2008, 09:10 PM
RedsoxRockies

Re: Red Sox to retire Pesky's number

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsguy234

No, Trevor Hoffman is the greatest closer of all time. But thanks for playing the Who the Hell is the Greatest Closer of all Time? Game! :D

No, Mariano Rivera is, followed by Hoffman, Followed by Nathan
09-23-2008, 09:12 PM
metsguy234

Re: Red Sox to retire Pesky's number

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies

No, Mariano Rivera is, followed by Hoffman, Followed by Nathan

Hoffman has more saves, and Lee Smith is 2nd best, followed by Rivera.

Thanks for playing though! :D
09-23-2008, 09:14 PM
RedsoxRockies

Re: Red Sox to retire Pesky's number

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsguy234

Hoffman has more saves, and Lee Smith is 2nd best, followed by Rivera.

Thanks for playing though! :D

Saves DO NOT AT ALL MEAN EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look at OTHER #'s. So, I guess your beloved John Franco did not save 450 games, so he sucks
09-23-2008, 09:33 PM
HoustonGM

Re: Red Sox to retire Pesky's number

metsguy234, do you remember when you said this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsguy234

You have to look deeper then saves, the current saves rule is flawed.
09-23-2008, 09:34 PM
YEAH DAAAAWG

Re: Red Sox to retire Pesky's number

Didn't Rivera just take second place in saves?
09-23-2008, 09:38 PM
HoustonGM

Re: Red Sox to retire Pesky's number

Quote:

Originally Posted by YEAH DAAAAWG

Didn't Rivera just take second place in saves?

Yup.
09-23-2008, 09:40 PM
metsguy234

Re: Red Sox to retire Pesky's number

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Yup.

But Lee Smith had the all-time record for so long. It's just... different.
09-23-2008, 09:42 PM
HoustonGM

Re: Red Sox to retire Pesky's number

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsguy234

But Lee Smith had the all-time record for so long. It's just... different.

No. You just don't have an argument. You make up reasoning and change it at whim in order to fit your bias.
09-23-2008, 09:43 PM
5dodgers5

Re: Red Sox to retire Pesky's number

Saves is flawed. Case closed. The closer is not even necessarily (or shouldn't necessarily be) the best reliever in the bullpen. Sometimes the setup man has more intense situations to come into than bottom/top of the ninth, bases empty, 3 run lead.

Also, Pesky's number being retired is awesome, I whole heartedly agree with that. I think that Rice's number should be retired as well, and Francona's. Ramirez.... perhaps. Ortiz will have to do more for the Sox before retiring that number.
09-23-2008, 09:44 PM
metsguy234

Re: Red Sox to retire Pesky's number

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

No. You just don't have an argument. You make up reasoning and change it at whim in order to fit your bias.

When did M. Rivera have the record for most career saves? That's right. NEVER!

Thanks for playing though...:D

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