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Nice post & pertinent too ;) Although A -Rod does have some "negatives" going for him which may lose him a few votes (Seattle leaving incident/"Boras" extension & lack of Rings so far) he will be a 1st ballot HOFer as will the other 2 mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by YEAH DAAAAWG
I wouldn't vote for Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Jose Canseco, Roger Clemens, or Rafael Palmeiro for the Hall of Fame either.Quote:
Originally Posted by YEAH DAAAAWG
Albert Pujols"Quote:
Originally Posted by YEAH DAAAAWG
I don't think so...Ruth is some tough competitionQuote:
and has a damn good chance to go down as the best player ever.
Yep!Quote:
He's an easy first ballot Hall of Famer, even if he retired right now.
lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
Albert Pujols is the the one guy I would put on the same planet as A-Rod right now and he was the one guy that came to mind as A-Rod's competition when writing that part of the post.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Ruth is obviously a great player and is hugely responsible for the evolution and development of the game of baseball at the Major League level, as well as developing interest among the youth of his time. With that said, its an impossibly difficult argument. A-Rod's book has yet to be written in its entirety, but he could retire as the greatest offensive player, statistically, of All-Time, but when considering the era and parks that Ruth played in it changes things. As I said, its an impossible debate, but honestly, who cares? They both are or were incredible, once-in-a-lifetime players that will go down as a couple of the best players ever.
Ok, all of the guys have an actual "steroid cloud" around them. Even Bonds numbers are so astronomical that it would be criminal to keep him out of Cooperstown, no matter how much hes hated.Quote:
I wouldn't vote for Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Jose Canseco, Roger Clemens, or Rafael Palmeiro for the Hall of Fame either.
Regardless, A-Rod, Jeter, and Rivera have no such cloud surrounding them. They've never had a great deal of statistical fluctuation (like Bonds did), none of them were accused of anything in the Mitchell Report (like all of the above were, I'm fairly certain), and there's really no rational reason to believe that Jeter, A-Rod, or Rivera ever did anything they weren't allowed to.
Only A-Rod has any semblance of a "steroid cloud" and the only "evidence" against him is Jose Canseco saying that he introduced A-Rod to a steroid dealer.Quote:
Originally Posted by YEAH DAAAAWG
And I'd also contend that those that did steroids weren't doing anything that they weren't allowed to do.
I did recall hearing that, but I never believed it anyways. Even if it was true, who honestly believes A-Rod did steroids (besides mets and his disillusioned, biased, cloud of deceit.)?Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Now THAT, is a hairy subject.
Its only the same in principle, but when Ruth was playing prohibition was in effect, a federal law but not something against Major League Baseball's rules. But its a well known fact that Ruth was a drinker, and a heavy drinker at that. The steroid issue holds the same basic idea.
Regardless of if steroids were against the rules in Major League Baseball or not, they were against federal law.
But I'll leave it at that because that's an extremely delicate subject that I'd rather not get too involved in.
Yeah, true. I meant "allowed" in a "baseball sense", and not even necessarily being against baseball rules, which steroids technically were. I meant allowed in a...MLB, management, etc. didn't give a crap.
Anyway, if we discounted baseball players from the Hall for doing things they weren't allowed to under law, we'd end up with a pretty tiny Hall of Fame.
No, it's actually under the Sportsmanship clause. It has nothing to do with any laws. Cheating is in no way good sportsmanship.
There are a good amount of players enshrined in the Hall of Fame that were horrible sportsmen, along with a number of cheaters. That's because, usually, performance is given much greater weight than personality and even cheating. Except of course if you stick a needle in your ass. Which is way worse than beating fans up, and cheating in other ways, and playing dirty.Quote:
Originally Posted by boa
As long as there is baseball, there is going to be players who cheat and play dirty...like running into a catcher at full speed...ala Pete Rose (in a freaken allstar game)
Yeah, that just makes him "gritty" and "all out."Quote:
Originally Posted by boomboom
That's not dirty! It's filthy. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by boomboom
:dQuote:
Originally Posted by houstongm