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Carlos Delgado for MVP
Recently, Carlos Delgado has been picking up a lot of traction in the MVP talks.
I'm watching the Mets-Nationals game, and after Delgado hit his second home run of the game, the crowd was chanting "MVP". I literally burst out into laughter. I think Mets fans don't quite appreciate how great the left side of their infield is.
Carlos Delgado is the third most valuable player in his own infield. He's the fifth most valuable player on his team. MAYBE Delgado's been the team's most valuable player since July 1st, but the MVP award is a full-season award, not a half-season award.
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
Talk about fair weather fans...earlier this year Mets fans wanted to throw Delgado in the same Yankee Stadium concrete pours that Red Sox fans were throwing jerseys into.
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
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Originally Posted by
dickay
Talk about fair weather fans...earlier this year Mets fans wanted to throw Delgado in the same Yankee Stadium concrete pours that Red Sox fans were throwing jerseys into.
Heh, very true.
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Originally Posted by
metsguy234
Woo! Delgado for MVP!
Convincing argument. :rolleyes:
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
LOL! Ryan Howard has 40 homers with about the same AVG.
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
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Originally Posted by
dannymac910
LOL! Ryan Howard has 40 homers with about the same AVG.
And is even less of an MVP candidate than Delgado.
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
It's not even gonna be close. Pujols has this wrapped up. And if he doesn't win because his team isn't in the playoffs, I'm boycotting the MVP award. :P
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
Delgado deserves it for leading the Mets into the playoffs.
And if Sabathia gets to discard his first few months and becomes NL Cy Young, why can't Delgado win the MVP?
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
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Originally Posted by
metsguy234
Delgado deserves it for leading the Mets into the playoffs.
What a change of heart.
http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showthr...delgado&page=8
In post #111, you mention that delgado is nothing more than a useful player, but is too old to be good. Does that mean that, gasp, you may be willing to admit that players aren't washed up after turning 35?
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
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Originally Posted by
etothep
What a change of heart.
http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showthr...delgado&page=8
In post #111, you mention that delgado is nothing more than a useful player, but is too old to be good. Does that mean that, gasp, you may be willing to admit that players aren't washed up after turning 35?
Delgado is only 36, I meant that you're usually not good if you're older then 38...
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
Quote:
Originally Posted by
etothep
what a change of heart.
http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showthr...delgado&page=8
in post #111, you mention that delgado is nothing more than a useful player, but is too old to be good. Does that mean that, gasp, you may be willing to admit that players aren't washed up after turning 35?
Owned.
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
I'd easily put Wright, Reyes and Santana over him for MVP.
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
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Originally Posted by
metsguy234
Delgado deserves it for leading the Mets into the playoffs.
Delgado, by himself, didn't lead the Mets to the playoffs. And also, what about this...The award is for the whole year. If Delgado wasn't so god-awful for the first few months, the Mets might not even be in a playoff race for Delgado to "lead them into playoffs"....they'd be ahead of the pack.
His poor play in the first two and a half months of the season is partly responsible for the fact that the Mets are in a playoff race, and haven't already virtually wrapped up the division.
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And if Sabathia gets to discard his first few months and becomes NL Cy Young, why can't Delgado win the MVP?
The announcers on SNY parroted this. It's not the same, at all. For one, the NL Cy Young award is for the National League. What Sabathia did in the American League isn't being counted because he wasn't in the NL at the time. For two, he's been SO good in the NL, that despite playing in half as many games as the other top starting pitchers, he's right up there in terms of value, because his games have been so phenomenal. Personally, I would not place Sabathia first on my Cy Young ballot, for precisely that reason. I don't know yet if he'd be in my top 3, but I'm guessing no.
Furthermore, what Delgado did in the first part of the season happened in the National League, unlike with Sabathia. What he did in the first part of the season was bad. That is included in his value for the entire season, and the MVP award is for the entire season.
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
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Originally Posted by
justanewguy
I'd easily put Wright, Reyes and Santana over him for MVP.
And Beltran, who I think is probably the most underrated player in the entire game at this point. Especially by Mets fans.
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
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Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
Personally, I would not place Sabathia first on my Cy Young ballot, for precisely that reason. I don't know yet if he'd be in my top 3, but I'm guessing no.
Not in mine either. Though I could see him in the top 3, if his last few starts are equally ouststanding.
I'd put Lincecum in the lead by a mile right now, and behind him a group of Webb, Santana, Billingsley, Dempster, Peavy, Volquez, Sheets... (in no particular order).
Webb really fell.
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
And Beltran, who I think is probably the most underrated player in the entire game at this point. Especially by Mets fans.
Beltran's an OK player, but he's past his peak...
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
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Originally Posted by
metsguy234
Beltran's an OK player, but he's past his peak...
LOL! Beltran is, but Delgado isn't?
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
Quote:
Originally Posted by
metsguy234
Beltran's an OK player
:rolleyes:
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
OMG....regardless of what anyone says, Metsguy is great for these forums as his frequent contradictions and bias approach to well...almost everything brings outstanding humor.
Thanks Metsfan.....! :D:D
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dickay
OMG....regardless of what anyone says, Metsguy is great for these forums as his frequent contradictions and bias approach to well...almost everything brings outstanding humor.
Thanks Metsfan.....! :D:D
Contradictions? Bias?
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
Quote:
Originally Posted by
etothep
What a change of heart.
http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showthr...delgado&page=8
In post #111, you mention that delgado is nothing more than a useful player, but is too old to be good. Does that mean that, gasp, you may be willing to admit that players aren't washed up after turning 35?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dannymac910
Owned.
OH YEA :p
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
Metsguy eating his words. Nice.
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
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Originally Posted by metsguy234
Beltran's an OK player, but he's past his peak...
Perhaps he'll never have another 2006 in him, but that doesn't mean he's past his peak. He's 31 and has been performing at the same level since 2003, except for a dip in 2005 and a phenomenal 2006. And that level is uh...really friggen good. He's far from an "okay" player. He's one of the best in the league, and hilariously underrated and, consequently, under-appreciated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
OMG....regardless of what anyone says, Metsguy is great for these forums as his frequent contradictions and bias approach to well...almost everything brings outstanding humor.
Thanks Metsfan.....! :D:D
Haha, true?
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Originally Posted by metsguy234
Contradictions?
You do seem to always try to contradict what most people are saying, even if it flies in the face of reality. That's not meant as an insult either. Everybody goes through that stage at some point in their lives.
It's pretty well-established that you have your favorite players and players you hate, and any "analysis" you try to do is blatantly colored by your likes and dislikes.
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
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Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
He's one of the best in the league, and hilariously underrated and, consequently, under-appreciated.
.
Except from a contract point of view ;)
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
From a Yanks fan who does not like the Mets: The NL MVP should be Jose Reyes. The only reason Delgado has someone to bat in is him.
I love to hate the Mets, but look at his numbers. Like Rollins 1 year ago. Reyes is a huge catalyst for that team. He sets the plate, steals bases,and is a total ass about it. Perfect.
I love Pujols, but he needs to get out of St. L since it is obvious that they have no intention of winning anytime soon.
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
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Originally Posted by
grasshopper
From a Yanks fan who does not like the Mets: The NL MVP should be Jose Reyes. The only reason Delgado has someone to bat in is him.
I wouldn't say that the NL MVP should be Reyes, but Reyes IS more valuable than Delgado, and so are Wright, Beltran, and Santana.
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
Quote:
Originally Posted by
grasshopper
From a Yanks fan who does not like the Mets: The NL MVP should be Jose Reyes. The only reason Delgado has someone to bat in is him.
I love to hate the Mets, but look at his numbers. Like Rollins 1 year ago. Reyes is a huge catalyst for that team. He sets the plate, steals bases,and is a total ass about it. Perfect.
I love Pujols, but he needs to get out of St. L since it is obvious that they have no intention of winning anytime soon.
They're only like 3 1/2 games out of the Wild Card...
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
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Originally Posted by
Slingshot
I think my eyes are about to bleed after just seeing those headlines that he mentioned. It's somewhat sickening.
But I guess it's easy to pretend that the first 3 months of the season never happened.
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
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Originally Posted by
metsguy234
I meant that you're usually not good if you're older then 38...
I'm 46, and I'm outstanding--just ask my girlfriend.
Oh, you meant at playing baseball. I wasn't good at that before I was 38.
:D
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
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Originally Posted by
dps
I'm 46, and I'm outstanding--just ask my girlfriend.
Oh, you meant at playing baseball. I wasn't good at that before I was 38.
:D
ROFL.
Anyways, I think the poll I just saw on ESPN for NL MVP would make HoustonGM sick. The options were: Manny Ramirez, C.C. Sabathia, Carlos Delgado, Albert Pujols, and I forget who the last person was. And the results might make him even sicker, because C.C. was "winning" the poll.
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
Quote:
Originally Posted by
YEAH DAAAAWG
ROFL.
Anyways, I think the poll I just saw on ESPN for NL MVP would make HoustonGM sick. The options were: Manny Ramirez, C.C. Sabathia, Carlos Delgado, Albert Pujols, and I forget who the last person was. And the results might make him even sicker, because C.C. was "winning" the poll.
Yeah, those polls are pretty stupid. It's a different assortment of 5 players each day. You can't accurately access the MVP field by presenting a limited amount of choices. I've voted each day, and some of the days, the guy I think should be the MVP isn't even an option to vote for, so I have to settle for the best guy of the 5, who I don't think is actually the MVP of the league.
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
I heard the BT people talking about Manny for MVP last night. I was half asleep, but I remember the conclusion being something like "He *certainly* should be considered."
Even if you throw in Manny's AL stats and include all that, Pujols is better.
It makes no sense.
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
I think what's happening with Pujols is similar to what Bill James said used to happen to Stan Musial. Paraphrasing, James said that the voters, not necessarily collectively, asked themselves, "How do we screw Stan Musial out of the MVP this time? Who can we give the award to besides Musial?"
This isn't too say that the voters have it out for Pujols, necessarily. It's more like...Pujols is so great that it's expected, so he's never given the consideration he deserves, even though there's always a viable argument that he's the MVP.
Pujols had the misfortune of entering the league at the same time that Barry Bonds went on a ridiculous run. Even considering that, Pujols really should have 3 MVP awards at this point (including this year) - 2005, 2006, 2008. He also has a strong argument in 2007. One day, we'll look back on Pujols like we do Ted Williams - as one of the greatest players ever. And just like Ted Williams, Pujols will have a lot less hardware than he deserves.
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
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Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
I think what's happening with Pujols is similar to what Bill James said used to happen to Stan Musial. Paraphrasing, James said that the voters, not necessarily collectively, asked themselves, "How do we screw Stan Musial out of the MVP this time? Who can we give the award to besides Musial?"
This isn't too say that the voters have it out for Pujols, necessarily. It's more like...Pujols is so great that it's expected, so he's never given the consideration he deserves, even though there's always a viable argument that he's the MVP.
Pujols had the misfortune of entering the league at the same time that Barry Bonds went on a ridiculous run. Even considering that, Pujols really should have 3 MVP awards at this point (including this year) - 2005, 2006, 2008. He also has a strong argument in 2007. One day, we'll look back on Pujols like we do
Ted Williams - as one of the greatest players ever. And just like Ted Williams, Pujols will have a lot less hardware than he deserves.
Yeah... you know, he will go down as the best hitter of this decade (could become the best hitter since Ruth, if he stays healthy), but he may only have 1 MVP in the decade to show for it. He's always coming in behind some freak season (Adrian Beltre, Ryan Howard) or a freak player (Bonds). This year they're pretty much just ignoring him.
It's interesting how Bonds won the award so easily, even though there was a rift between him and the media, yet Pujols (a friendly, easy-going character) is having a tough time getting consideration.
If he's not the frontrunner with the writers (I suspect he actually is), then I hope he wins on account of the media being unable to collectively decide on some dark horse candidate.
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
Quote:
Originally Posted by
justanewguy
It's interesting how Bonds won the award so easily, even though there was a rift between him and the media, yet Pujols (a friendly, easy-going character) is having a tough time getting consideration.
Well, it comes down to the fact that no matter how much the voters hated Bonds, you just CAN'T ignore the seasons he was having. There's absolutely no possible way to slice it that he wasn't the MVP in each of those seasons. When a player posts an OBP over .500 or .600 and a slugging over .750, along with shiny batting averages, there's NO ignoring that. Pujols is having a phenomenal season this year, the best of his career, but it's easier to ignore more "mundane" superstar numbers than it is to ignore out-of-this-world best-ever numbers. Bonds's numbers were so out of line with anything anybody including himself had ever done. Pujols's numbers aren't too much different from what he does year and year out, so there's no great story, and because the award is voted on by reporters, it's as much about the narrative, if not more so, as it is about the production.
By the way, I like this response from Keith Law's chat today on ESPN:
Steve (Boston): Could you bullet point the most crucial factors you consider when giving your MVP opinion? Thanks.
Keith Law: * Value.
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
Quote:
Originally Posted by
justanewguy
It's interesting how Bonds won the award so easily, even though there was a rift between him and the media, yet Pujols (a friendly, easy-going character) is having a tough time getting consideration.
He is NOT that nice a guy tho. I have read, I have NO idea where now, that he routinely blows off the media and is NOT the prototypicle "nice guy"
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
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Originally Posted by
TheNamelessPoet
He is NOT that nice a guy tho. I have read, I have NO idea where now, that he routinely blows off the media and is NOT the prototypicle "nice guy"
Blowing off the media does not mean you're not a nice guy. It means that you don't want to deal with the nonsense.
Everything I've read about Pujols indicates that he's one of the most upstanding citizens and nicest guys in the game. He adopted his wife's child with down syndrome, and launched the Pujols Family Foundation that helps people and familys affected by down syndrome. With the help of the foundation, he's taken supplies and even teams of doctors to help the poor in the Dominican Republic. They hold an annual golf event to raise money to send dentists to the Dominican Republic. etc. etc. etc.
Only a nice guy would put so much effort into charity in the way that Pujols does.
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Re: Carlos Delgado for MVP
bonds
offered his sallary to charity just so he could play
Education
$$$ goes to fund underkids education
does that mean he is a nice guy
